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netmilsmom
Guest
Bears repeating doesn’t it?
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Mysty101
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Not when it is public ridicule.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
On December 4, 1963, Pope Paul VI promulgated Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy. The document commands that “the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.” It furthermore adds:
But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. (emphasis added) This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants (SC, 36.2). Vatican II made provisions that the “limits” could be extended. They were, according to the Supreme Legislator, the Roman Pontiff, when he promulgated the second edition as the *editio typica *(1975):
Since no Catholic would now deny the lawfulness and efficacy of a sacred rite celebrated in Latin, the Council was able to acknowledge that “the use of the mother tongue frequently may be of great advantage to the people” and gave permission for its use. The enthusiasm in response to this decision was so great that, under the leadership of the bishops and the Apostolic See, it has resulted in the permission for all liturgical celebrations in which the faithful participate to be in the vernacular for the sake of a better comprehension of the mystery being celebrated (12). Permission to use the vernacular, then, was extended because of a great good: “a better comprehension of the mystery being celebrated.”
You may disagree that such was prudent, but it certainly was lawfully promulgated by the Roman Pontiff, who has the authority to do so.
But since the use of the mother tongue, whether in the Mass, the administration of the sacraments, or other parts of the liturgy, frequently may be of great advantage to the people, the limits of its employment may be extended. (emphasis added) This will apply in the first place to the readings and directives, and to some of the prayers and chants (SC, 36.2). Vatican II made provisions that the “limits” could be extended. They were, according to the Supreme Legislator, the Roman Pontiff, when he promulgated the second edition as the *editio typica *(1975):
Since no Catholic would now deny the lawfulness and efficacy of a sacred rite celebrated in Latin, the Council was able to acknowledge that “the use of the mother tongue frequently may be of great advantage to the people” and gave permission for its use. The enthusiasm in response to this decision was so great that, under the leadership of the bishops and the Apostolic See, it has resulted in the permission for all liturgical celebrations in which the faithful participate to be in the vernacular for the sake of a better comprehension of the mystery being celebrated (12). Permission to use the vernacular, then, was extended because of a great good: “a better comprehension of the mystery being celebrated.”
You may disagree that such was prudent, but it certainly was lawfully promulgated by the Roman Pontiff, who has the authority to do so.
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itsjustdave1988
Guest
The above is nothing but ridiculous dissident propoganda. Here’s traditional Catholic teaching…
St. Pius X: “there can be no holiness in dissension from the Pope.” (Pope St. Pius X, allocution of 18 November, 1912, AAS vol. 4 (1912), 693-695. Selection from p. 695)"
Ven. John Henry Cardinal Newman: “I say with Cardinal Bellarmine whether the Pope be infallible or not in any pronouncement, anyhow he is to be obeyed. No good can come from disobedience…when he speaks formally and authoritatively he speaks as our Lord would have him speak…therefore the Pope’s word stands, and a blessing goes with obedience to it, and no blessing with disobedience*” *(John Henry Newman “'The Oratory, Novr. 10, 1867”, The Genius of Newman (1914), by Wilfrid Ward, Vol II, Ch. 26)
St. Catherine of Sienna: "*For divine obedience never prevents us from obedience to the Holy Father: nay, the more perfect the one, the more perfect is the other. And we ought always to be subject to his commands and obedient unto death. However indiscreet obedience to him might seem, and however it should deprive us of mental peace and consolation, we ought to obey; and I consider that to do the opposite is a great imperfection, and deceit of the devil. *(Letter to Brother Antonio of Nizza)
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netmilsmom
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A public confession? I don’t think so.
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Mysty101
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I really don’t want an answer, I just hope that you would realize that the kind of ridicule that some of you think is funny has no place on a public board. As I have said many times, you don’t know who is reading, and that you may turn a possible convert away because of your silly ridicule. There was one poster who did mention it—how many others will just silently go away?
I have no problem with any legitimate posture (and regardless of what you say there is far more option than you realize) There is no official word, and for every solid interpretation pro, there is another solid interpretation con.
But disrespect for your brother is ALWAYS wrong.
Not a public confession. What I am saying is that when you ridicule in public (as on a public forum) it is no longer a private matter between you and your confessor. Why don’t you also ask your uncle about that?
I really don’t want an answer, I just hope that you would realize that the kind of ridicule that some of you think is funny has no place on a public board. As I have said many times, you don’t know who is reading, and that you may turn a possible convert away because of your silly ridicule. There was one poster who did mention it—how many others will just silently go away?
I have no problem with any legitimate posture (and regardless of what you say there is far more option than you realize) There is no official word, and for every solid interpretation pro, there is another solid interpretation con.
But disrespect for your brother is ALWAYS wrong.
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netmilsmom
Guest
If you really don’t want an answer, then why do you keep asking?
As for the part I highlighted, It’s not what I say, it’s what the Vatican says. I’m sorry that you will not recognize what is presented from offical documents. Actual documents. Not an interpertation.
I have much better things to discuss with my Uncle than your opinions. Like I said, it’s between me and my confessor. You have nothing to do with it.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Mysty101 said:
And here is the list of official documents, from which the quotes came from…
Acronym
Document Name (Latin)
Common Name
Date Issued
CIC/83
Codex Iuris Canonici
Code of Canon Law
1983
ICP
Code:
Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest
1997
ID
Inaestimabile Donum
1980
GIRM
General Instruction to the Roman Missal
1970
AGI
Appendix to the General Instruction for Dioceses in the United States
1970???
PS
Paschales Solemnitatis
On the Preparation and Celebration of the Easter Feasts
1988
DC
Dominae Cenae
On the Mystery and Worship of the Eucharist
1980
MS
Misericordiam Suam
Introduction to the New Order of Penance
1974
HLS
"This Holy and Living Sacrifice: Directory for the Celebration and Reception of Communion under Both Kinds"
Code:
1984
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Mysty101
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I am defending those you disrespect.
Yes, I do have something to do with it when you publicly ridicule others. Public ridicule is not an opinion—it is fact.
I am defending those you disrespect.
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Mysty101
Guest
PS The only official GIRM is 2002 --anything earlier has been superceded. I see some other dates which are quite old.
As I said–there is no official liturgical documentation on a position for the congregation during the Lord’s Prayer.
As I said–there is no official liturgical documentation on a position for the congregation during the Lord’s Prayer.
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Mysty101
Guest
PPS I repeat (I really don’t know why you asked again when I answered you the first time)
I really don’t want an answer, I just hope that you would realize that the kind of ridicule that some of you think is funny has no place on a public board. As I have said many times, you don’t know who is reading, and that you may turn a possible convert away because of your silly ridicule. There was one poster who did mention it—how many others will just silently go away?
I really don’t want an answer, I just hope that you would realize that the kind of ridicule that some of you think is funny has no place on a public board. As I have said many times, you don’t know who is reading, and that you may turn a possible convert away because of your silly ridicule. There was one poster who did mention it—how many others will just silently go away?
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netmilsmom
Guest
I can feel the love. As I said before, you must love me more than any other poster here.
We always try to correct those we care about the most.
Love you too!
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Mysty101
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Perhaps you do, but I try to correct the most serious error. As I said, I am very concerned about what you and some others have shown those trying to learn about the Catholic Faith.I can feel the love. As I said before, you must love me more than any other poster here.
We always try to correct those we care about the most.
Love you too!
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netmilsmom
Guest
The facts?
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Katie1723
Guest
Is there a CATFIGHT brewing?? :tsktsk:
~ Kathy ~ :whistle:
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netmilsmom
Guest
Nope, it happens all the time.
She is a dear old woman.
And she loves me.
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Mysty101
Guest
Absolutely not–Is there a CATFIGHT brewing?? :tsktsk:
~ Kathy ~
Net is a dear little child, but doesn’t seem to realize that people do have differences, and even if they are wrong (which I have no way of knowing) they do deserve respect, and are not to be ridiculed to their face or behind their back. (we don’t even ridicule convicted criminals–how about the same respect for our fellow Catholics?)
that there are many options in worship style when there is no specific instruction in the GIRM
sarcastic sugar is not very Christian
and most importantly that there are possible converts reading, and what is he showing them about the way some Catholics react to differences?
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Katie1723
Guest
Awww…darn…I was hopingIs there a CATFIGHT brewing?? :tsktsk:
~ Kathy ~
~ Kathy ~
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netmilsmom
Guest
Thanks, that really does mean so much!
Complancency is only because of ignorance. I’m fighting the good fight for those who have no voice. The Pete in the Pew type who has had his Holy Mass taken and now must worship in a way unfamiliar to him. Those who have taken the proper channels and were squelched or just feel so uncomfortable they walk away. We are treated like children, who don’t know any better and told to get used to it. Giving facts has not worked, proper channels have not worked.
Like my hubby’s marine Drill Sargent, sometimes sarcasm and tough words can startle people into reality. Who cares if someone likes me. If they look at the posts of myself and those who are like me, get angry and find out what is right, perhaps those who sit silently in the pews, wondering who took their Holy Mass will no longer be left out. Perhaps we can all have the way to worship that we are all comfortable with, not just the liturgical committees.
There was a survey done by one of the Catholic sites on why we can’t get men into the churches. The reason they found, Men feel they have no place. They don’t want the touchie feelie feminized mass they want the meat and potatoes. They want to commune with God, not with each other. That’s very sad. Just as men have been marginalized in society, they have been marginalized in our church. We need to get Catholic from the roots up. Have a balance of modern masses with institutional masses and everyone is happy.
No, and that is why we are given other documents from the Vatican to reference to. Because something is not included in the GIRM but is included in another Vatican document, does not mean that the directive is nulified.
But it can be very effective in getting one’s attention and making one think. Not everything is sweetness and light in this world. People have been sweet and nice about the innovations for a long time, nothing has changed except people leaving the church in droves.
Maybe the possible converts will look at those here and know that there is more to being Catholic than just being a Christian. We are traditionally based and those who defend those traditions may well be the people who bring them here.
The converts I know didn’t come to the Catholic Church for the community. They got that at their old churches. They come for the Eucharist and all the reverence that goes with it.
There is room for both of us Mysty. You have not walked in my shoes. I have no problem with you calling me unChristian or whatever name you would like to pop in. Trust me, I’m used to it.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Do you want me to call you if there is one?
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