Is your parish violating Musicam Sacram?

[Edmundus1581]

Does Father just lead a cappella? ie. he starts it off with his own voice, and everyone joins in (“loud and proud”!)? Up until about five years ago we often had that in our parish at the Masses without music, and also the commentator could lead the congregation with his/her own choice of hymns. So at the start of Mass we’d be waiting to see whether either Father or the commentator would decide whether there’d be singing today, and the decision was usually made only moments before Mass commenced. Still, a last minute entrance hymn was better than nothing!

 

[Wesrock]

29. The following belong to the first degree:

(a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.

(b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.

(c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord’s prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal.

Just in case I’m not following, is the point that these should be sung and not just said?

 

[Edmundus1581]

Edmundus1581:

. It has been useful to be referred back to the earlier papal instruction.

This is true. Everyone should read this who is involved in decision making at a parish, along with Sing to the Lord and the GIRM. Then take each for what it is worth, and consider what one’s own parish needs.

For example, the elderly, over-worked, and infirm priest who can hardly sing a lick is becoming more common every year. This is a challenge that was not as prevalent in 1967. Having a priest who cannot sing alters the specifics, if not the general principles.

It’s good to see that the OP’s question and then our discussion have yielded this as a succinct recommendation, and also comment on the problems which may hinder our best intentions.

Thanks everyone for the discussion.

 

[Edmundus1581]

snarflemike:

29. The following belong to the first degree:

(a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.

(b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.

(c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord’s prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal.

Just in case I’m not following, is the point that these should be sung and not just said?

Close, but the point is more that there is a progression of the “three degrees” (in 1967!). The highest emphasis is on the first, and we shouldn’t be singing the second (eg. Creed) and third (eg. communion hymn) if we’re not singing the first. Whether the first degree should be sung depends on the Mass (ie. Solemn, High, or Low as was available at the time, 1967, before the OF came into use).

Without re-reading the thread, I think it would be fair to answer your question in the affirmative, for a Sunday Mass.

This is well explained by @Phemie, in post #53 which also illustrates the principle by contrast with what usually happens in practice.

Please also note that this instruction from 1967 is useful for reference but is not directly binding as there are more recent instructions, specifically the GIRM, which doesn’t mention “degrees”. See, for example, @pnewton post #64. Moreover, the intent that all of the first degree sung before any of the second, etc., is clearly no longer in force.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t have a badge anymore. I can now go to jail for driving like I had to drive before.

As to music: Quaker songs? Protestant songs which are not consistent with Catholic theology? And they are better than the supposedly “Catholic” song writers/arrangers. Haas and Hurd are two prime offenders. Ugh. “We are the light of the world…” (i.e. so much better than the unwashed). “All are welllllcome…in…His…name” - not a peep about repentance.

Blathering on about the Lord’s table and the banquet, ad nauseam. Not a peep about the entire purpose of the mass: Sacrifice.

And the morbid fear of using the male pronoun to refer to God. Really?

This tilting toward ecumenism and political correctness has carried a rather high price.

 

[Edmundus1581]

This tilting toward ecumenism and political correctness has carried a rather high price.

Yes, but the problems with Catholic congregation singing (at least in the west) pre-date that and are deeper. The rise of (bad) ecumenism and political correctness in the music is more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.

 

[IdaCatholic]

I must admit that I make up words to the songs they choose to assault my ears with. Like a weird Al for Church.

 

[Phemie]

Now I would enjoy Gregorian chant. But none is offered anywhere near me and matter of fact nearest traditional Latin mass is like 30 miles away

Consider yourself lucky. To reach a Mass like that I’d have to drive 940 miles.

 

[pnewton]

“We are the light of the world…”

You can blame Jesus for that one. He is the guy that started all that “blathering.” Of course it continued with Paul, talking us being the body of Christ, many parts, the greatest of all gifts is love.

Don’t get me started on John.

The point is, for all the complaints about modern music, that part that is scriptural should not be criticized, lest we lose the perspective that Catholics are also Christians. I spoke earlier about the need for those involved in musical decisions to read Musicam Sacram, but it appears I should also mention that Unitatis Redeintergratio is equally important.

 

[Edmundus1581]

I understood the complaint about “ecumenism” to be more that modern Protestant “songs” are banishing traditional Catholic hymns (and also good Protestant ones!), rather than that we shouldn’t have hymns with ecumenical sentiments or scriptural quotes.

 

[Peeps]

The point is, for all the complaints about modern music, that part that is scriptural should not be criticized, lest we lose the perspective that Catholics are also Christians.

BLESS YOUR HEART! Thank you for saying this!!!

I think that we need to stop complaining about the music in our parishes and start making it good by singing it with all of our heart, listening with our SOUL-ears to the messages in the songs, and stop nit-picking every little thing we find annoying about our parish music.

Think about what happened to the Children of Israel when they were constantly complaining after being freed from slavery in Egypt! We have nothing to complain about.

The music teacher in our parish school grew up in St. Louis and was a child and teen when many of these “St. Louis Jesuits” songs were being written and sung for the first time. She LOVES these hymns–they are HER hymns, the hymns of Holy Mother Church. She actually was planning to become a nun and had taken the first few steps–and then she met that man that God had chosen to be her husband–a different vocation than the one she had always planned. So apparently the music has influenced at least a few Catholics for the GOOD, even if some Catholics hate it.

BTW, that St. Louis Jesuit reunion concert in St. Louis (scheduled for this fall, I believe) sold out within a few days. My daughter told me that she could probably get tickets for me, but they would cost because she would have to find a scalper.

So apparently there are quite a few Catholics who really LOVE these hymns!

I can testify that the song Gather Us In made me cry the first time I heard it, because of the awful experiences that we had gone through in our last Protestant church. The song was so appealing to me because it made it clear that my husband and I were part of the Church, too, even if one church (small “c”) had kicked us out and was shunning us. The song made me feel WELCOMED by God and other Christians. And i happen to love the beautiful melody that is suggestive of a sea chanty.

I agree with many of you who decry the jettison of the “traditional” hymns. I think we need to think of our hymnals as a repository of family heirlooms. Many of us have a item in our home that has come down through the decades (or even centuries) and ended up in our homes. Would we toss this precious item because it’s “old”? Hopefully not! I have a piece of embroidery that my grandmother gave me for my wedding–it’s Da Vinci’s “Last Supper” and it’s beautiful–but it definitely would clash with much of what HGTV tells us our homes should look like. Too bad for HGTV–I would rather trash them than lose that beautiful heirloom.

We should think of our traditional hymns and other Catholic music the same way–as precious heirlooms to be treasured and used. BUT…we should also welcome new treasures into our churches.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

po18guy:

“We are the light of the world…”

You can blame Jesus for that one. He is the guy that started all that “blathering.” Of course it continued with Paul, talking us being the body of Christ, many parts, the greatest of all gifts is love.

Don’t get me started on John.

The point is, for all the complaints about modern music, that part that is scriptural should not be criticized, lest we lose the perspective that Catholics are also Christians. I spoke earlier about the need for those involved in musical decisions to read Musicam Sacram, but it appears I should also mention that Unitatis Redeintergratio is equally important.

Au contraire, mon frere, I dislike it that the bad music is scriptural, because often when I read scripture , I can’t shake the dreadful St. Louis “Jesuits” tunes from my head.

 

[Edmundus1581]

@Peeps

Thanks for the heartfelt appreciation of the St Louis Jesuits! As a convert I am only passingly familiar with their music, but it sounds like they were a Catholic parallel to the Fisherfolk (with Betty Pulkingham) which I enjoyed as an Anglican in the 1970s, and praised earlier in this thread! I have only fond memories of their music and it was an important part of my spiritual growth, as it was for many of my era.

Traditionalism was also being challenged in Protestant churches at the time, but the intent was to “complement” rather than “replace”. The Fisherfolk songbooks are a great compendium of traditional, folk and (then) new music.

It was music of an era - an era which was optimistic with the changes afoot in liturgy, ecumenism etc, and these musicians were contributing good music as part of a “movement”.

I say “good music” in the sense that it was done from a place of musical sophistication, and also an “ear” for new sounds.

I feel fortunate to have lived through it.

 

[stpurl]

I like that! You could even use that. . .except you’d better NOT. Apparently it’s a capital offense.

 

[pnewton]

Traditionalism was also being challenged in Protestant churches at the time, but the intent was to “complement” rather than “replace”.

Most of the documents I have read take this approach as well. Thus, the idea of ecumenism and inculturation was never intended to eliminate more ancient Catholic traditions. In fact, even occasional cross-cultural experiences are valuable. For me, it is the Matachines and music from Mexico that I get to experience.

I like that! You could even use that for "like a Shepherd, “Like a Weird Al I parody, hoping to drown out the dreck. . .”

So, if you find lyrics like this, where Jesus is the good shepherd, lacking in the dignity Mass demands, yet this sort of parody is not? I get some of the poetic imagery is harder to grasp than some of St. Louis de Montfort imagery, and in the setting of the Mass is simply too much, but some of the complaints are about traditional Christian imagery drawn directly from Scripture.

I can also get where tastes differ from person to person and what is music to one is convoluted or awkward to another. It is the great weakness of modern music, especially with the use of “staff” composers, a mistake if there ever was one, in my own opinion. Unfortunately, that is one of the down sides to copyright laws.

 

[stpurl]

So, if you find lyrics like this, where Jesus is the good shepherd, lacking in the dignity Mass demands, yet this sort of parody is not? I get some of the poetic imagery is harder to grasp than some of St. Louis de Montfort imagery, and in the setting of the Mass is simply too much, but some of the complaints are about traditional Christian imagery drawn directly from Scripture.

Um, excuse me? I was responding to Ida with a few words of light-hearted parody and somehow you came up with the above? I did recently hide my profile so I understand you couldn’t PM me with your concern but, um, really? You’re so sure I’m 'finding lyrics like the good shepherd imagery lacking in the dignity Mass demands yet making a parody? Where did I EVER say the good shepherd imagery in the song was ‘lacking in dignity’ when I threw out a few ‘parody’ words? Bit of an overreaction here. I mean, (not now because I’m going off to dreamland, but tomorrow) I’d be happy to ‘discuss’ if you’d like to ask me a specific question, but for you to just ‘assume’ that I’m snarking on dignity when I did nothing of the kind is troubling. I mean, criticize me for something I really DO, using words I really say "I said ‘dreck’ because it sounds funny, and I only used a few words because I wasn’t really out to criticize that particular song, so, um, I guess what I’m trying to say in my sleepy way is, OK, you were ‘offended’ by me, I wasn’t out to offend, you wound up offending ME by making a judgment on something I didn’t actually say, you probably didn’t realize I’d be offended, I told you that, let’s not make a mountain into a molehill and I’m too tired to stop this post except with hey, I’m sorry if I didn’t like a song you like, OK?

 

[po18guy]

Not so fast there! This schlocky 70s “I’m OK, you’re OK” song, with ‘aren’t we all just great’ lyrics, smacks of pride. What did our Lord have to say about that???

 

[po18guy]

“which the ignorant and unstable distort, to their swift destruction…”

That’s also biblical! My point is that the tenor of the music (at my parish), if not the specificity of the lyrics, tends to shy away from our sinful nature, the need for repentance and God’s grace.

Virtually nothing about the blood of Christ - outside of Lent. Almost nothing about sin and repentance - outside of the confiteor. Have not heard a single verse about spreading the Gospel no matter the price.

It is hokey, plastic banana, good time rock and roll, warm and fuzzy music. Not a peep about the joy in our suffering, or the awe we will experience in contemplating the Beatific Vision.

For those who may be as dull-witted as I am, I don’t like it.

 

[pnewton]

There would be less offense if loaded rhetoric was not used. I can only take words at their meaning, not their intent.

 

[JohnLilburne]

The 1984 Ceremonial of Bishops has in Chapter 2 Offices and Ministries in the Liturgy of Bishops:

“Choir and Musicians

39 All who have special part in the singing and music for the liturgy – choir directors, cantors, organists, and others – should be careful to follow the provisions concerning their functions that are found in the liturgical books and other documents published by the Apostolic See.”

At the end of the sentence it has footnote 40, referring to nine books/documents, including the 1967 Instruction Musicam sacram.

An area where a more recent document gives different instructions is the Alleluia before the Gospel. Musicam sacram put this in the third degree, only to be sung if everything in the first and second degree was sung.

1981 Introduction to the Lectionary for Mass has in n. 23: “The Alleluia or the verse before the gospel must be sung and during it all stand.”

The current Third Edition of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), n. 62:

“It is sung by everybody, standing, and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated as the case requires. The verse, on the other hand, is sung either by the choir or by a cantor.”

In GIRM n. 63 it has for the case “When there is only one reading before the Gospel” that:

“the Alleluia or the Verse before the Gospel, if not sung, may be omitted.”

Is it reasonable to interpret the instruction that the Alleluia must be sung on Sunday as also requiring everything in the first and second degree to be sung? No. Take the Creed, from the second degree, as an example, from GIRM: “68. The Creed is to be sung or said by the Priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities.” There is clearly an option to say it on a day when the Alleluia is required to be sung.

So having changed one part of the degrees of Musicam sacram does that mean the whole concept has been discarded? I think that is a reasonable interpretation that has been widely followed.

[Excerpt from the English translation of Ceremonial of Bishops © 1989 International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. Excerpts from the English translation of The Roman Missal, © 2010 International Commission on English in the Liturgy Corporation. All rights reserved.]