ISIS and Islam

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peace_at_last said:
You are correct they that they are mostly thugs and criminals. Multiple reports were coming out (in non-English media) at the beginning of the crisis that Saudi Arabia had been sending inmates to fight alongside these thugs in return for reduction in prison time.
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Have these reports been substantiated? I’ve never heard of this.
 
peace_at_last said:
Agreed 👍

Let me slightly correct that. The ISIS kills anyone-not just Christians-that does not accept their beliefs. Shias, Kurds, Alawis, Yazidis, Druze, and even non-extremist Sunnis.
The number of non-Christians that they have killed, specially Shias, is far higher than the Christians.

You are correct they that they are mostly thugs and criminals. Multiple reports were coming out (in non-English media) at the beginning of the crisis that Saudi Arabia had been sending inmates to fight alongside these thugs in return for reduction in prison time.
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I apologize for not including all of the groups suffering persecution. Pope Francis reminds us to pray for all who are being persecuted, not just Christians.

Shias are the special target, as evidenced by intell from the US and UK. The big money supporting attacks against Shias (and Christians) always traces back to Saudi Arabia. SA is Sunni. They have been supporters of jihadists, including Bin Laden, for many many years.

independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/06/12/jihadist_gains_in_iraq_blindside_american_spies

Also, to Christian people in Iraq, this is all common knowledge.
 
We in the US, have a cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia. We have been conveniently ignoring the side hobbies of Saudi princes, such as funding jihadists, because of our complicated oil treaties. It really puts us in a ridiculous position. Essentially, as long as oil prices are low, it’s okay that our Saudi friends are killing innocent people. Now, officially, Saudi Arabia is helping us fight ISIS. However, the number of Saudi princes helping ISIS is worrisome. In addition, this editorial puts things into perspective.

globalresearch.ca/isis-and-the-usa-expansion-and-resistance-by-decapitation/5404602
 
peace_at_last said:
Without doubt it has religious elements in it although many speculate those who lead ISIS have brainwashed their followers solely for political gain. But it still has nothing to do with true Islam. It is an extremely distorted radicalized form of Islam, that is NOT Islam, albeit religious.

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary religion is:
1-the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. :arrow_forward:a particular system of faith and worship.
2-a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

With these definitions, one can label many horrible ungodly things as religious, but what is the point? Is the OP trying to tell us that since ISIS can be considered a religious movement and claims it is true Islam, then it is really true Islam and Islam must be bashed based on the actions of the ISIS?
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Not at all. Where did you get the highlighted portion from my original post? I was pretty clear to point out that millions of Muslim men and women are “good and decent” people who don’t support the actions of ISIS. I’m just tired of the claims that I am hearing in some circles that ISIS is “purely” a political movement that has “nothing” to do with Islam. Obviously it is a religious movement. Its interpretation of Islam is, thankfully, very different from yours, but it is still an Islamic movement drawing upon Islamic theology.
The KKK drew upon “Christian theology” even though their interpretation of the faith was completely at odds with my own Catholic faith.
 
twf said:
Not at all. Where did you get the highlighted portion from my original post? I was pretty clear to point out that millions of Muslim men and women are “good and decent” people who don’t support the actions of ISIS. I’m just tired of the claims that I am hearing in some circles that ISIS is “purely” a political movement that has “nothing” to do with Islam. Obviously it is a religious movement. Its interpretation of Islam is, thankfully, very different from yours, but it is still an Islamic movement drawing upon Islamic theology.
The KKK drew upon “Christian theology” even though their interpretation of the faith was completely at odds with my own Catholic faith.
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If the KKK is used as a contrast to Christian theology then this whole discussion is revealed as being a rather tenuous thread.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
We in the US, have a cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia. We have been conveniently ignoring the side hobbies of Saudi princes, such as funding jihadists, because of our complicated oil treaties. It really puts us in a ridiculous position. Essentially, as long as oil prices are low, it’s okay that our Saudi friends are killing innocent people. Now, officially, Saudi Arabia is helping us fight ISIS. However, the number of Saudi princes helping ISIS is worrisome. In addition, this editorial puts things into perspective.

globalresearch.ca/isis-and-the-usa-expansion-and-resistance-by-decapitation/5404602
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I don’t see a difference in Isis or Hamas. PM Netanyahu on national television couldn’t see a difference either. And Iran, what do we say about extreme here, did they abandon their global mission? PM Netanyahu claims no, I agree. He called it the worlds most dangerous regime not Isis. Just saying. Would we give Isis a nuclear weapon?
 
GaryTaylor said:
I don’t see a difference in Isis or Hamas. PM Netanyahu on national television couldn’t see a difference either. And Iran, what do we say about extreme here, did they abandon their global mission? PM Netanyahu claims no, I agree. He called it the worlds most dangerous regime not Isis. Just saying. Would we give Isis a nuclear weapon?
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Just watched it. Can’t think of a leader of a country who doesn’t beat around the bush besides him.

They all follow an Islamic ideology with a literal interpretation; some just have more power than others in certain regions.
 
Rhubarb said:
I think it’s clear that Islam is connected to ISIS. But I think the connection the same as Christianity is connected to Joseph Kony’s Lord’s Resistance Army. I don’t consider Kony’s Christianity typical of the Faith, and I don’t consider ISIS’ Islam typical of the Faith. Extremists are the noisy minority. We can cherry-pick quotes from the Qu’ran to try and pin the blame for ISIS on Islam. But we can do the same for the Bible to pin the blame of Kony on Christianity.

I think a better question to consider is how is the connection to Islam different for ISIS than it is for the millions and millions of peaceful Muslims the OP recognizes. I think these questions better get to the heart of what drives ISIS and takes into account the incredibly vast majority of Muslims that aren’t nut-job extremists. The same for Kony and Christianity vs. the incredibly vast majority of Christians that aren’t nut-job extremists.

Personally, I think that geo-politics since long, long before 1918 better explains the problems in the Middle East than religion.
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The difference is that the ISIS ideology is tied to the Qur’an and Sunah. Because of this, there’s people world wide that can also read the Qur’an and decide to go join them. The LRA is a fringe group and they don’t even quote the Bible to justify their actions. Nor does their constitution.
 
twf;12366732]Let me start by stating that I recognize that many Muslims have spoken out against ISIS and that ISIS is hardly representative of the entire Muslim world.
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I believe history repeats itself here. Those Muslims who speak out against ISIS or ISIL, began their own Islamic societies and Monarch rules the same way ISIS is doing today.

These stable Islamic countries join the coalition for fear, that ISIS will remove their borders and replace them with ISIS borders, from the support of their own nationals who are Muslim.

What gives ISIS their support to fight, is not necessarily monetary gain, but Islam is their clarion call being used here to clean up Islamic corruption, from ISIS view. They fight under the flag of Islam to promote their view of Islam. This same view of Islam is the same view all other historical Muslim leaders used to gain their victory as Rulers to establish their countries and borders.

Where ISIS will meet it’s demise, is that it picks a fight with the Western free world. Regretfully, many lives will be lost when the dust finally settles. And ISIS will rise again under a different name, using the same tactics all Muslim’s used to make their countries, under the flag of Islam.

Historically the West is not immune to using religion as a base of uniting it’s people to protect it’s land and rulers. The difference is, the West fights to protect itself from invasion. While Muslims fight to conquer in the name of Islam, which the Quran supports. How is that conquering interpreted by Muslims? The established Muslims with a Monarch in place interprets it differently from the suppressed Muslim by their Monarch’s.
There are millions of good, decent Muslim men and women. I’ve had good friends who were Muslims. That being said, am I the only one who is sick of our leaders, including Vatican officials, telling us that ISIS and the conflict in Iraq / Syria has “nothing to do with religion” and “nothing to do with Islam”?
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Religion becomes the Opium of the people here. Our leaders do not want to make this a religious war, for fear of it’s reprisals in free societies, which it is not immune to what is labeled as terrorism, stemming from their own citizens, who are Muslim.

Religion is the Opium because the rulers or leaders of Muslim countries use it as a power to reign over their people in a unified peace. While the suppressed Muslim uses religion to gain power and rule, with religion as a united front.

Let’s be honest here; Do you think ISIS is going to use oil, secular power and wealth as a reason to send their sons and daughters to certain death? No, many different countries have used religion as Opium for their wars and conquests.

We have to remember one important thing here about Islam. Islam mixes it’s secular governing powers with Islam. ISIS fights to keep it that way, the coalition fighters fight to try and separate Islam from it’s Secular ruling governing powers.

Religion deceives both secular powers who try to play down religion and religious powers trying to gain secular powers.

No one wins this war. The fight is to prevent innocent people from being killed, When both parties are guilty while at war.

From a hypothetical, if ? ISIS were to establish itself as it’s own country today. It would settle in within it’s power and rule, and repeat what other Muslim rulers today have joined the coalition to protect what it fought for many years ago. One day Iran will make it’s move in the same way ISIS does today, according to Israel, who hangs in the balance.
 
friardchips said:
I haven’t studied the Quaran. I need to study Christian Theology before I do that. Then I could read the Quaran before attempting to pick apart other people’s belief systems.

God bless.
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Muslims I have debated have told me the only true Quaran is in Arabic.
 
unstoppable_II said:
Which people? I found it in an Islamic website article at islamic-world.net/invitation.php?ArtID=338 about 5 years ago. It has since been moved or removed altogether.
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Hi. I meant the people on this thread. Thanks for the link but as I said I need to study my own faith before delving into the faith of ‘other’ belief systems. Out of respect for those people more than anything else. I do appreciate you posting the link, I’ll have a scan quickly because you went to the trouble, in a bit. Thank you, muchly 🙂 God bless.
 
friardchips said:
Hi. I meant the people on this thread. Thanks for the link but as I said I need to study my own faith before delving into the faith of ‘other’ belief systems. Out of respect for those people more than anything else. I do appreciate you posting the link, I’ll have a scan quickly because you went to the trouble, in a bit. Thank you, muchly 🙂 God bless.
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You should try the homepage; anything after “.net” will produce an error. Good luck.
 
My take, ISIS focuses too much on Mohammed (PBOH) and not enough on God.
 
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