Islam 101 For Christians

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As to God contradicting himself, do any of you remember the not-quite-final fate of Sodom (Genesis 18:17-33) ? Not only did God change his mind, he let himself be convinced by a mere human. Then Jonah watching haplessly as God decided not to destroy Nineveh after all? Not to mention possibly the biggest change, Jesus’ superseding the entire old Covenant, no longer holding only the tribes of Israel as the elect ‘saved’, but allowing salvation for all peoples? The Christian God is hardly immutable; why do you try to claim otherwise?

Also, for what it’s worth, don’t dismiss people out of hand just because they’ve touched a copy of the Satanic Bible ;p All it is is a badly-written atheist manifesto. It doesn’t turn people into ravening demons or anything.
 
Mirdath said:
As to God contradicting himself, do any of you remember the not-quite-final fate of Sodom (Genesis 18:17-33) ? Not only did God change his mind, he let himself be convinced

by a mere human. Then Jonah watching haplessly as God decided not to destroy Nineveh after all? God giving humans the chance to repent shows his mercy…this is not the kind of change we are talking about.
Not to mention possibly the biggest change, Jesus’ superseding the entire old Covenant, no longer holding only the tribes of Israel as the elect ‘saved’, but allowing salvation for all peoples? The Christian God is hardly immutable; why do you try to claim otherwise?
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bella5110 said:
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matt 1:1) “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name Him Emmanuel”, which means “God is with us”. (Matt 1:23).
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what does that have to do with having a personal relationship with God?
 
Valke2 said:
what does that have to do with having a personal relationship with God?
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Oh, one more thing, did I not quote that He was called Emmanuel? I suggest you read The New Testament, it’s due time…
 
bella5110 said:
Well, you quote Moses, I quote my Saviour Jesus Christ.
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you didn’t quote jesus. but ok. I was quoting to give an example of having a personal relationship with God. I’m not sure why you were quoting … what were you quoting? I thought that was Isaiah but you called it the genelogy of jesus?
 
Valke2 said:
you didn’t quote jesus. but ok. I was quoting to give an example of having a personal relationship with God. I’m not sure why you were quoting … what were you quoting? I thought that was Isaiah but you called it the genelogy of jesus?
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Yes I did. Read Matt 1:1
 
I just want to know where this carpool started? If it was Moses Abraham and Jesus, did they pull over to pick up Mo?:rolleyes:
To conserve on gas of course?
 
Rand_Al_Thor said:
Pax vobiscum!

I am getting sick of people saying that Muslims don’t worship the same God as Christians. Muslims worship the God of Abraham. Christians worship the God of Abraham. Now, obviously the Muslims have an incorrect understanding of who and what that God is and THAT is the difference. You might as well say that the Jews worship a different God than Christians because the Jews do not believe in the Trinity either.

No I am not saying that Islam is equal to Christianity, before anyone accuses me of that.

In Christ,
Rand
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Well said. 🙂
 
Loginus said:
Simple, it considers Christians defilers of one of the Messages of God to them. Essentially making them Heratics (sp?). From what I know, pursuing heracy is a live-long tradition for any Abrahamic religon. At the very least, islam asks you disassociate with either Jews or Christians, unless they are just, then go for it.

The Church just tortures and burned ppl as far as ino
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Actually it was the kings and governments of the time that sought the heretics out. There were bad people in the Catholic Church who stood by but those people’s wrong actions do not represent Christ Pillar of Truth or his Church. Just as some say Osma Bin laden does not represent Islam. Now the Allah God told Mohammed to tell the Muslims to Kill and be rewarded. Jesus Christ never told his apolstles to kill and they would be rewarded. Thus the Islam God and Christian God are not the same message even both claim the same seed.
 
Mirdath said:
inJESUS;1665599:
Look at those passages again. God had decided
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that the people of Sodom and Nineveh were well past repentance and had promised to send them away in a shower of fireworks. He didn’t. That’s a pretty fast change of mind and I would say yes, it is applicable here. And certainly, the nullification of Mosaic Law was a process taking place over more than 23 years (uh, 33 maybe? going by how long Jesus is supposed to have lived…) but its scope encompassed basically the entire Old Testament. I submit that it too is perfectly relevant in a discussion of God changing his mind. i had to check your profile after reading your post.
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Mirdath said:
that the people of Sodom and Nineveh were well past repentance and had promised to send them away in a shower of fireworks. He didn’t. That’s a pretty fast change of mind and I would say yes, it is applicable here. did you even reread what we were talking about in order to understand? we were talking about changing commandmants and laws, not about God responding to human actions. It is not God who changes but man who does, entailing God’s response to it. Are you familiar with this verse in Ezekiel :

I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! Why should you die, O house of Israel?
And certainly, the nullification of Mosaic Law was a process taking place over more than 23 years (uh, 33 maybe? going by how long Jesus is supposed to have lived…) but its scope encompassed basically the entire Old Testament. I submit that it too is perfectly relevant in a discussion of God changing his mind.
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well, i must remind you about the difference between Old and New…there wouldn’t be new if nothing in the old was changed.

1 Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased, Upon whom I have put my spirit; he shall bring forth justice to the nations,
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Not crying out, not shouting, not making his voice heard in the street.
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2 A bruised reed he shall not break, and a smoldering wick he shall not quench,
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3 Until he establishes justice on the earth; the coastlands will wait for his teaching.

"The law and the prophets lasted until John; 11 but from then on the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone who enters does so with violence.

For Christ is the end 2 of the law for the justification of everyone who has faith.

Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian 16 for Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

i can go on and on in showing the promises of OT and fulfillment in NT…symbols in OT and fullfilment in NT but it needs several posts…suffice to say It is a history for thousands of years fulfilled in the NT, (not 33 years as you said)…fulfillment, not abrogation… and not contradictory commandmants within 23 years as people accused Muhammad of giving a law today and changing it tomorrow.
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The Quran teaches that all have sinned: “If God were to take mankind to task for their wrongdoing, he would not leave here one living creature” (Sura 16:61, see also 42:5), and were created weak (Sura 4:28). We are even told that Muhammed sinned (Sura 40:55, 47:19,48:2). Every Muslim who hopes to escape the judgement of Allah must fulfill the works of the Five Pillars of the Faith (Sura 10:109).
  1. Recitation of the Shahada (“There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is the prophet of Allah”);
  2. Five daily prescribed prayers (Salat or Namaz) in Arabic. These prayers include genuflection and prostration in the direction of the Holy City, Mecca.;
  3. Almsgiving (Zakat), which is unlike tithing since Muslims are only required to give one-fortieth of their income as charitable contributions;
  4. Fasting (Saum or Ruzeh) during the eb=ntire month of Ramadan, when Muslims are supposedto fast from all food and drink from sunrise to sunset in atonement for their own sins over the previous year (however, after sunset many Muslims enjoy a feast and some get up before sunrise to eat some more before the sun rises and the fast begins.
  5. A pilgramage. (Hajj) to Mecca, the Holy city, at least once in a Muslim’s lifetime.
 
continued…

Holy War (gihad) used to be a condition of faith, and early Muslims believed it was their sacred duty to murder anyone who would not embrace the one true faith. Contemporary Islam is much more moderate, although some groups talk of restoring gihad as one of the essentials of Islamic faith. Literally, gihad means “struggle” or “utmost effort” and in most cases signifies prayerful effort, although Muhammed and many of his successors have called for gihad, which resulted in the deaths of many “infidels”.

So, I ask, can this be the same God as our Christian God? No.

Where are all the Muslims on this post? Can you say I am wrong? No.
 
Respectfully, I think it is dangerous to propagate the notion that Muslims worship the God of Abraham just like the Jews and Christians.

I say dangerous because it gives the false idea to unthinking people that Islam is somehow okay and that the problems we encounter from Muslims (particularly of the Jihadist variety) are just from a few people misinterpreting this religion.

In other words - Islam is good because it worships the God of Abraham - the bad is only because it has been twisted by an evil few.

Muslims do not worship the God of Abraham because the Muslim Allah is not the God of Abraham. Abraham would not recognize this Muslim Allah as his god.

And neither would Jesus Christ recognize the Muslim Allah as the God of Abraham.

Of course, Muhammad and hence Muslims claim that the Muslim Allah is the God of Abraham. This is just a claim. To allow this claim to stand merely because the Muslims say so is to allow them to use the God of Abraham as a validation for something that isn’t.

Thus, I think I do not agree when a Muslim tots out the line, ‘we are brothers with the Jews and Christians because we all worship the God of Abraham.’ This brotherhood does not exist. Muslims have persecuted the Jews and Christians for centuries in accordance to the Quran. Like I said before: the God of Abraham would not persecute Christians or Jews.

So it is up to us whether we agree to let Muslims get away with Muhammad’s lie.
 
bella5110 said:
continued…

Holy War (gihad) used to be a condition of faith, and early Muslims believed it was their sacred duty to murder anyone who would not embrace the one true faith. Contemporary Islam is much more moderate, although some groups talk of restoring gihad as one of the essentials of Islamic faith. Literally, gihad means “struggle” or “utmost effort” and in most cases signifies prayerful effort, although Muhammed and many of his successors have called for gihad, which resulted in the deaths of many “infidels”.

So, I ask, can this be the same God as our Christian God? No.

Where are all the Muslims on this post? Can you say I am wrong? No.
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Arg

First, its ‘jihad’. And second this is why we dont just pull sources from our rear
"Some non-Muslims are confused about the meaning of jihad, due to media coverage of recent terrorist events mainly portraying ‘jihad’ as a declaration of ‘holy war’. However, its definition is much broader, involving spiritual, political, and martial concepts. For example, Iran is home to “University Jihad”.[31]
 
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