Islam a religion of Peace - I am convinced...

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Reply to the remaining part of Husaria post #50.
“And fight them until there is no more fitnah (worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion will all be for Allah alone in the whole of the world.” Quran 8:39.
It means fight the infidels, the enemies of Jesus and Muhammad until there is no more Fitnah (oppression) in the matters of faith, until there is no compulsion in religion, no persecution due to difference of faith.
“Verily those who disbelieve in the religion of Islam, the Quran, and Prophet Muhammad from among the people of the scripture, the Jews and Christians, and the unbelievers will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst creatures.” Quran 98:6
Please correct the above translation to read as follows:
“Verily those who vehemently and balatalantly oppose of Islam, the Quran, and Prophet Muhammad from among the people of the scripture, the Jews and Christians, such enemy type hostile persons will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst creatures.” Quran 98:6
“Oh you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Aullya (friends, protectors, helpers) they are but Aullya to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Aullya, then surely he is one of them.” Quran 5:51
Here it is advised to all Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as guardians and supporters. So read the translation as follows:

“Oh you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as guardians ( Supporters). They are but (Aulia) supporters of one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Aullya (guardians), then surely he is one of them.” Quran 5:51
“You are ordered by Allah to continue Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam.” Quran 47:4
There is no such verse 47:4… The reference may be wrong.

“There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.”
 
The Muslim covets your land and your women, his ways are deceit. Trust not the peaceful words that come from his mouth. Behind his illusion is a web of lies propagated for your ruin.
That is a complete lie. It is false propaganda against Islam by some hostile mind.
Would you go inside a cage with a man eating beast and rebuke it? Both you and he know he is a beast
.
It is some supposed idea. Nothing concrete in the above words. It is a product of some disturbed mind.
Those who say the Lord is our strength he will protect us, then blindfold their eyes put the Lord to the test and will be slain by the Sword of Islam.
Who said that?? No reference, No name, no claim. So please forget it.
 
Sure people will retaliate about any wild person who tries to abuse the beloved religious persons. If Wilder had done some similar thing about jesus, the Muslims would have objected to that too. Wilder is not doing right. he is mis-representing the Quran.
Simply your opinion and Geert Wilder has a right to his.

He is not saying don’t be friends with the Muslims as your Quran says about the Jews and Christians:
5.51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

He is not saying kill Muslim:
9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

By the way if your allah was so forgiving and merciful why is he bribing you to kill the Pagans!?!
There are horrible things in the world.There are horrible people in the world. So there have to be horrible actions to stabilise the matters back to Peace. Islam never condones anything against any peaceful peron of any faith. Why are you so influenced by that wilder??
BUT to believe in a book that condones them!! Simply ridiculous and evil!!.
What is wrong with that verse??. Tell me why did the British and French challenge Hitler about the War i.e. WWII?? Why the British and the French did not sit in their homes, sipping sweet coffee? If you are so much against any kind of action against those who disturb Peace then you should reconsider your attitude. Allah has made a sure promise of a good reward for those Jews and Christians and Muslims who fight in the way of Allah to support the truth. They fight to suppress the disturbance.
Muslims always switch the arguement- because you know in your subconcious that that verse is absolutely evil.

You have no arguement against it.

They fight to suppress the disturbance, lol!! as in this sense:
5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and **main for mischief through the land **is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter:

I hate that verse because allah is bribing you to do killing for him. ** It is the only sure, true way you as a Muslim can reach paradise**, have salvation = killing for allah.

**Muslims HAVE to kill!! even those that simply cause mischief in the land?!

Christians HAVE to love!! even their enemies!!**
 
Simply your opinion and Geert Wilder has a right to his.
Shaikh, of unknown faith, that right has to be exercised in the right direction, not to malign and acuuse any one falsely/ ignorantly.
He is not saying don’t be friends with the Muslims as your Quran says about the Jews and Christians:
5.51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Leave friendship out of your translation. Muslims are told not to take the Jews and christians as their guardians. That is all. What objection do you have for that??
He is not saying kill Muslim:
Who is he? If it is that Wilder then he need not say these words. He has in fact killed all the Muslims by maligning their prophet. That was an absolutely bad shameful deed. Could I call it the catholic deed?? if you are a catholic?? I do not know. It may be a Catholic work to abuse the very dear ones of other faiths.
9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
.

I feel that you are a very unreasonable person who cannot see the reality. I cannot see what sympathy you have for the pagans. Are you a pagan?
Those pagans of Arabia (Makkah) had killed and waged wars against Muslims for about 20 years. They were liable to be killed anyhow. They deserved to be killed. But the prophet Muhammad pardoned all of them. As per orders from Allah, the prophet let the pagans live in the city of Makkah for four months. Do you think that was not enough??

The verse is very clear and so is the history of very early Islam. Try to read that history and then comment on such matters, please.
By the way if your allah was so forgiving and merciful why is he bribing you to kill the Pagans!?!
Again you are sympathising with the very cruel pagans of Arabia?? Were those pagans your ancestors?? You should read some history of their bad deeds. They persecuted the poor believers in 20 years, more than the early christians were persecuted during 200 years.

When I gave example of the good action of Britian and France against Hitler, you had no reply. You simply tried to dodge away the matter. That is because your stand is totally unreasonable.
BUT to believe in a book that condones them!! Simply ridiculous and evil!!.
Not at all. Our books stand up to justice. It does not cry love for the evil like the christians do. It stands up to save the poor people and it condemns the evil forces. No where it condones killing of any peaceful people of any faith. By your posts, you are only bringing out the bad points of your unknown faith.
Muslims always switch the arguement- because you know in your subconcious that that verse is absolutely evil.
You have no arguement against it.
I gave you reply about Great Britian and France who confronted the evil forces of Hitler. I presented a good argument. But you backed off without any comment.
They fight to suppress the disturbance, lol!! as in this sense:
5.33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and **main for mischief through the land **is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter:
What is wrong with the above law?? Do you want to remain lawless person?? It is same as we have punishment for those who wage war against any government (Uk or Germany or America). Don’t you see that such crimes are punishable??
I hate that verse because allah is bribing you to do killing for him. ** It is the only sure, true way you as a Muslim can reach paradise**, have salvation = killing for allah
.
You have zero knowledge about islam. You are a partner of that Wilder company, full of hatred…
**Muslims HAVE to kill!! even those that simply cause mischief in the land?!
Christians HAVE to love!! even their enemies!!**
From your post it clear that your Love is false. There is no Love. It is only severe prejudice, ignorance and hatred in your heart about Islam. Your heart is full of hatred against Islam. You have shown that hatred quite well, and enough. Thank you!!
 
Shaikh, of unknown faith, that right has to be exercised in the right direction, not to malign and acuuse any one falsely/ ignorantly.
He is not directing his words at any living person the average Muslim, simply your book and hadith. He believes that your Quran is filled with hate speech and should be banned. I believe it should be required reading in every High School along with the Gospel so the truth will be shown.
Leave friendship out of your translation. Muslims are told not to take the Jews and christians as their guardians. That is all. What objection do you have for that??
Every translation has friends in it:
5.51
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people
Who is he? If it is that Wilder then he need not say these words. He has in fact killed all the Muslims by maligning their prophet. That was an absolutely bad shameful deed. Could I call it the catholic deed?? if you are a catholic?? I do not know. It may be a Catholic work to abuse the very dear ones of other faiths.
No it is simply being truthful about who the person Mohammad was.

signs of a cult:
There is no tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. No one can never question Mohammad, his actions or the Quran.

I am not Catholic.
I feel that you are a very unreasonable person who cannot see the reality. I cannot see what sympathy you have for the pagans. Are you a pagan?
Those pagans of Arabia (Makkah) had killed and waged wars against Muslims for about 20 years. They were liable to be killed anyhow. They deserved to be killed. But the prophet Muhammad pardoned all of them. As per orders from Allah, the prophet let the pagans live in the city of Makkah for four months. Do you think that was not enough??
If a pagan is living under the rules of the secular government and in fact is a good citizen your quran would have you kill them. ** In my religion there is always the hope that they would at some time in the future become Christian.**
The verse is very clear and so is the history of very early Islam. Try to read that history and then comment on such matters, please.
non answer- that’s ok you know it is evil
Again you are sympathising with the very cruel pagans of Arabia?? Were those pagans your ancestors?? You should read some history of their bad deeds. They persecuted the poor believers in 20 years, more than the early christians were persecuted during 200 years.
When I gave example of the good action of Britian and France against Hitler, you had no reply. You simply tried to dodge away the matter. That is because your stand is totally unreasonable.
We are not talking about Hitler and France.

{QUOTE]Not at all. Our books stand up to justice. It does not cry love for the evil like the christians do. It stands up to save the poor people and it condemns the evil forces. No where it condones killing of any peaceful people of any faith. By your posts, you are only bringing out the bad points of your unknown faith.
What is wrong with the above law?? Do you want to remain lawless person?? It is same as we have punishment for those who wage war against any government (Uk or Germany or America). Don’t you see that such crimes are punishable??
It is vague- mischief- I am causing mischief for you riht now nd you wuld have me killed if in an islamic country following sharia.

One of the propblems of Islam is trying to legislate religion- Church and state must be separate.
You have zero knowledge about islam. You are a partner of that Wilder company, full of hatred.
Yes hatred of intolerance, prejudice, killing all things evil.
From your post it clear that your Love is false. There is no Love. It is only severe prejudice, ignorance and hatred in your heart about Islam. Your heart is full of hatred against Islam. You have shown that hatred quite well, and enough. Thank you!!
So a loving father does not disicpline or tell his son when he is wrong? Islam the way it stands today is wrong. Can it be reformed?
 
He is not directing his words at any living person, the average Muslims simply your book and hadith. He believes that your Quran is filled with hate speech and should be banned. I believe it should be required reading in every High School along with the Gospel so the truth will be shown.
Shaikh, you may have some good point mixed with bad ones here.
Every translation has friends in it:
5.51
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people
Yes, True. But a Polish new Muslim Leopold Weiss (Muhamamd Asad) wrote a translation
of the Quran. In that he advised us about the true meaning of the word “Wali”. It is “guardian”. We have a Wali for the bride at the time of her marriage. He is Usually the father of the bride. He is called “Wali”. He is not friend of the bride.Do you see that?

Moreover, the word in Arabic for the friend is “Khaleel”, not Wali.
signs of a cult:
There is no tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. No one can never question Mohammad, his actions or the Quran.
I am not Catholic.
Muhammad is quite below the status of your God (Jesus) according to your teachings. So why are you complaining about Muhammad? Thanks for you not being a Catholic. I hope you are some kind of christian.
If a pagan is living under the rules of the secular government **and in fact is a good citizen your quran would have you kill them. ** In my religion there is always the hope that they would at some time in the future become Christian.
Absolutely wrong. No one will kill the peaceful pagan or non-pagan of any faith. I do not know your religion. It is possible about your hope but I do not believe that because your religion is not known.
non answer- that’s ok you know it is evil
Keep denying the truth.One day the Truth will leave you forever.
We are not talking about Hitler and France.
You should talk about Churchill and Hitler because it is a similar case as you are discussing. But because it demolishes your case completely, you do not want to go near Hitler.

{QUOTE]Not at all. Our books stand up to justice. It does not cry love for the evil like the christians do. It stands up to save the poor people and it condemns the evil forces. No where it condones killing of any peaceful people of any faith. By your posts, you are only bringing out the bad points of your unknown faith.
It is vague- mischief- I am causing mischief for you riht now nd you wuld have me killed if in an islamic country following sharia
.
I will never kill or harm any one. But it is possible that some one in some Islamic country may kill you for you wilder ideas. Some people cannot tolerate evil. So it is better that you shun such bad ideas to save yourself.

Even if you are not killed, you will be a better person by avoiding bad ideas about others.
One of the propblems of Islam is trying to legislate religion- Church and state must be separate
.
I may agree with you on that.You see the church learntthat lesson after a lot of trouble. Now you want to force it on the Muslims.It is not fair.Let the Muslims learn the same lesson after lot of trouble.

Church was very much actively interfering in the various government affairs. King Henry the 8th was much in trouble when he wante dto marry Anne Bolean. Pope did not allow the marriage.So the King had to have his own church,i.e. the church of England.
So a loving father does not disicpline or tell his son when he is wrong? Islam the way it stands today is wrong. Can it be reformed?
Every one can be reformed. Some christian people are protesting about the Catholic church. Those Protesting can also be reformed with proper christian Love.
 
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