Islam - an insulting request.

[KathleenGee]

What people are not understanding here are the associations and links with those who are intent on constructing the mosque near the W TC.

 

[schaick]

Loving the Muslims of New York City in no way implies forsaking Jesus and His Church. Historically speaking, Muslims (in power) have treated their Christian neighbors MUCH better then Christians (in power) have treated their Muslim neighbors.

Living as a dhimmi
Pact of Umar that we as infidels are not supposed to be allowed to read the moslem texts.

In the name of God, the Merciful and Compassionate. This is a letter to the servant of God Umar [ibn al-Khattab], Commander of the Faithful, from the Christians of such-and-such a city. When you came against us, we asked you for safe-conduct (aman) for ourselves, our descendants, our property, and the people of our community, and we undertook the following obligations toward you:

We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks’ cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.

We shall keep our gates wide open for passersby and travelers. We shall give board and lodging to all Muslims who pass our way for three days.

We shall not give shelter in our churches or in our dwellings to any spy, nor bide him from the Muslims.

We shall not teach the Qur’an to our children.

We shall not manifest our religion publicly nor convert anyone to it. We shall not prevent any of our kin from entering Islam if they wish it.

We shall show respect toward the Muslims, and we shall rise from our seats when they wish to sit.

We shall not seek to resemble the Muslims by imitating any of their garments, the qalansuwa, the turban, footwear, or the parting of the hair. We shall not speak as they do, nor shall we adopt their kunyas.

We shall not mount on saddles, nor shall we gird swords nor bear any kind of arms nor carry them on our- persons.

We shall not engrave Arabic inscriptions on our seals.

We shall not sell fermented drinks.

We shall clip the fronts of our heads.

We shall always dress in the same way wherever we may be, and we shall bind the zunar round our waists

We shall not display our crosses or our books in the roads or markets of the Muslims.

We shall use only clappers in our churches very softly. We shall not raise our voices when following our dead.

We shall not show lights on any of the roads of the Muslims or in their markets. We shall not bury our dead near the Muslims.

We shall not take slaves who have been allotted to Muslims.

We shall not build houses overtopping the houses of the Muslims.

(When I brought the letter to Umar, may God be pleased with him, he added, “We shall not strike a Muslim.”)

We accept these conditions for ourselves and for the people of our community, and in return we receive safe-conduct.

If we in any way violate these undertakings for which we ourselves stand surety, we forfeit our covenant [dhimma], and we become liable to the penalties for contumacy and sedition.

Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: “They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims,” and “Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact.”

from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230.

 

[MyzTek]

We haven’t done any honor killings in the USA or killed someone for leaving our religion…yet.

Yes, I live in a region that is so, so tolerant for everyone that we have 2 porn shops in our family neighborhood…the shop 15 blocks from my house has had mannequins in the front clothes with porn clothes on…and the local school bus goes directly around it with all these children…and nobody cares. I contacted my neighbors and experienced the usual indifferences, went to my community center who were shocked, sent their reps up who were ignored.

A lawyer worked for 20 years before bringing it to the Supreme Court judges who passed this free speech law without citizens approval.

One honor killing and one Muslim death by someone who wanted to become Christian – both on American soil is way, way, way too much for me…I don’t tolerate it…or systematic lying.

The Supreme Court doesn’t pass laws. Congress writes them, the President signs them, and the Supreme Court has only two options when a law in question comes before them. It can determine that the law passed by Congress and signed by the president either is or is not constitutional. If they determine it is not, it ceases to be law, otherwise it stands as written and passed.

 

[Kadaveri]

Perhaps New York’s council could draw out a Muslim-free zone somewhere in Manhattan so people know exactly where they’re not allowed, as it’s not clear at the moment.

 

[schaick]

Perhaps New York’s council could draw out a Muslim-free zone somewhere in Manhattan so people know exactly where they’re not allowed, as it’s not clear at the moment.

Actually we want muslims to integrate into American culture.

Actually it was worded the other way around that we americans needed to be integrated into the Muslim culture by someone connected to this mosque. Is that what the Imam said- well he has it backwards.

We do not want the No Go zones the way France does. Areas where non-muslims take their lives in their own hands to go into. I have read and heard first hand accounts- even police and firemen will not go into some of these areas.

 

[KathleenGee]

I worked in a foreign country, learned their language, obeyed their laws, understood their sensitivities, and treated their people with respect and kindness with no ulterior motive. Pope Benedict himself has said that people coming in need to respect their host country.

A lady from Bosnia told me a problem she is seeing with Americans is that we have such low standards and that we expect so little of people who come here.

We are thus reducing our country to a materialistic money making machine. Come, impose and sue, take all and do not reciprocate, do not care for us, our poor, our suffering.

The culture of entitlement. I try not to justify it with the holy Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[wmscott]

Loving the Muslims of New York City in no way implies forsaking Jesus and His Church. Historically speaking, Muslims (in power) have treated their Christian neighbors MUCH better then Christians (in power) have treated their Muslim neighbors.
The Muslims I know (my city has a very large Muslim population) would not mind at all having a church beside their mosque. Of course (unlike the people who flew the planes into the buildings) the Muslims I know would not be drinking alcohol in bars and otherwise engaging in activities which are antithetical to Islam.

I point out again that on a narrow island, two city blocks away is not “next door” or “crowning the site,” and there is no reason to believe the group desiring the building of a mosque there are in any way connected to the political extremists who perpetrated the attacks.

I have been to Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Bahrain. Do not tell me Christians are equal, loved, and warmly embraced. We are merely tolerated in some of the more lenient countries. As for Saudi Arabia, it allows Christians to enter the country but does not allow them to practice their faith openly, Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others. The Saudi religious police prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam. Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy, a crime punishable by death (Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia) if the accused does not recant. The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services. Christians, and other non-Muslims, are prohibited from entering the holy cities of Mecca and Medina.

 

[MyzTek]

I have been to Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Bahrain. Do not tell me Christians are equal, loved, and warmly embraced. We are merely tolerated in some of the more lenient countries. As for Saudi Arabia, it allows Christians to enter the country but does not allow them to practice their faith openly, Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others. The Saudi religious police prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam. Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy, a crime punishable by death (Capital punishment in Saudi Arabia) if the accused does not recant. The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services. Christians, and other non-Muslims, are prohibited from entering the holy cities of Mecca and Medina.

I said “historically” not “in modern countries.” Yes, both our cultures are very intolerant today (as well displayed in this thread), which is sad; but in any case, were I to have been born in the middle ages, I would probably have a much better chance of surviving as a Christian in a Muslim kingdom then as a Muslim under “Christian” rule.

 

[Splinker]

The local community review board approved it. They are the people who live their.

 

[MyzTek]

According to an article at Salon.com, the mosque they are thinking about moving out of is already only a few blocks away from ground zero, so there would be no really significant change in the proximity of it to the site. Also, the views of the Imam are paraphrased thusly:

The imam in charge, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is consciously moderate, and has described combating radicalism as his personal mission. Nor is he jumping on the chance to get in the neighborhood to make some point: The mosque is already just a few blocks away, in Tribeca, but has overgrown its current space. Rauf says that he hopes that having a moderate mosque so near ground zero can send a message of tolerance and peace.

I would be happy to have him as a neighbor and conversation partner!

 

[KathleenGee]

The mosque is not like a small chapel…or like the Catholic Franciscan church shaped like a tear in Jerusalem that represents the tears shed by Christ because Jerusalem rejected Him and His words.

The mosque will be 13 stories high, be an event center…there are those on its council who have a most questionable background with ties to jihad.

The vote should have been done by the citizens and not a small, left wing faction that is normally anti-Christian.

The mosque will be quite large and be used to promote Islam. There are many Muslims who do not wear ancient dress. They tell me the ones who are political and who are working to promote Islam are those who wear foreign clothes, sue, and impose.

Too much too soon. Better to be prudent and wait. We are in the middle of war and terrorists are already coming through the borders.

 

[humble_maid]

Loving the Muslims of New York City in no way implies forsaking Jesus and His Church. Historically speaking, Muslims (in power) have treated their Christian neighbors MUCH better then Christians (in power) have treated their Muslim neighbors.

The Muslims I know (my city has a very large Muslim population) would not mind at all having a church beside their mosque. Of course (unlike the people who flew the planes into the buildings) the Muslims I know would not be drinking alcohol in bars and otherwise engaging in activities which are antithetical to Islam.

I point out again that on a narrow island, two city blocks away is not “next door” or “crowning the site,” and there is no reason to believe the group desiring the building of a mosque there are in any way connected to the political extremists who perpetrated the attacks.

It is good news to know that the muslims in your area are kind. I can vouch for the same here in my area. I also can vouch that I have more in common with them then I would secularists or liberal catholics but that does not mean that I accept what their Koran teaches. As a catholic and all christians, we should put God first in all things. The First of the Great Commandments that Jesus gave us is:

Love thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind.

Then did Jesus say that the second Greatest Commandment is:

Love thy neighbor as you love yourself.

Don’t forsake God for the love of your neighbor; but love your neighbor so that he may come to know the Lord.

Peace

 

[KathleenGee]

and we must defend our faith…as the Lord said, the kingdom is like a great treasure…

IF Christians had not defended their faith and their homeland, Europe would not be what it is today, and none of us would be here. Our country would not exist.

 

[KathleenGee]

I also wonder about other forms of Christianity that came out of the USA that have never been attacked and set up for annihilation…

 

[Publisher]

Do you truly believe they were the target?

They died just the same…right along with the “Christians”, “Wiccans”, “Buddhists”.

Do we become suspicious and hateful because others do?

No one person was targeted…the act was one of terrorism…like hate and suspicion, terrorism knows no boundry of creed, color or sexual orientation.

 

[Publisher]

It seems to me we are willing to forsake the explicit teaching of Jesus of Nazareth on how to treat our “enemies” and how to react to those who cause us harm rather than abandon our own fears and prejudices concerning a group of people who wish to build a house of worship that in no way has been implicated in 9/11. They wish to build a place of worship…but I kind of think it wouldn’t matter if it was 2 blocks or 200 miles…there are some who do not wish to walk in the way of peace…being a peacemaker sometimes calls for a cross…however after the cross there is an empty tomb…we must look beyond the fears that “the world” instill in us…we can choose to live within the Kingdom of God and live by it’s precepts…or live by the precepts of this world…I wonder which Way leads to the Light?

 

[jakasaki]

There is a saying in their koran, that when they, muslims, are the minority in a place or area or region, they are to smile to the unbelievers -non-muslim- and at the same time they are to curse the unbelievers under their breath and in their hearts.

Do not take them as friends as they are not muslims.

You can write all you want about peace loving smiling kind muslims. It’s a facade…

As soon as they become the majority, that smile, kindness and peace goes bye-bye.

 

[KathleenGee]

To build a future massive mosque next to the WTC during this time of war while Christians can do nothing in Muslim countries, isn’t the gospel or to question it isn’t contradicting the Gospel…

This massive mosque to be place by the World Trade Center, without the vote of the people of NYC, is political.

 

[Publisher]

There is a saying in their koran, that when they, muslims, are the minority in a place or area or region, they are to smile to the unbelievers -non-muslim- and at the same time they are to curse the unbelievers under their breath and in their hearts.

Do not take them as friends as they are not muslims.

You can write all you want about peace loving smiling kind muslims. It’s a facade…

As soon as they become the majority, that smile, kindness and peace goes bye-bye.

So do we cast off the teachings of Christ because of the wrongs others do?

 

[Publisher]

To build a future massive mosque next to the WTC during this time of war while Christians can do nothing in Muslim countries, isn’t the gospel or to question it isn’t contradicting the Gospel…

This massive mosque to be place by the World Trade Center, without the vote of the people of NYC, is political.

“Placed by the World Trade Center”…I thought it was two blocks away? They must be very small “blocks” if it’s “placed by the WTC”…do we now cast our words with “half-truths” and “fear based” accusations?

Whom do we trust in? The “arm of man” or the “Arm of God” in our midst? Can we see the face of Christ in the faces of our Muslim citizens?