Islam an offense to our LORD.

[hamba2han]

Yes i would agree with you that it is a violation, but Catholics understand this differently,
A quick question to you have you ever lied? or stole something?

Why on earth are you asking me these kind of questions??

Let’s just say that I have done certain things in my life which I am not proud of… but the difference here is that I am NOT saying that some of the things which I have done were not sinful.

The Church, on the other hand, is indeed saying that bowing down to a statue of Mary is NOT sinful.

What other conclusion can I infer from the photo of the Pope bowing down to the statue of Mary?

 

[TEPO]

And as for Muslims bowing down towards the Kaaba in Makkah, we are really following the way how the Prophets (peace be upon them all) themselves worshiped their Lord.

I will bow down toward your holy temple
and will praise your name
for your love and your faithfulness,
for you have exalted above all things
your name and your word. … Psalm 138:2

Oh, so it’s o.k. to bow down to a building because it was supposedly built by Abraham, but when catholics bow down in praise of a SOUL – that is unacceptable?

I hear muslims even “kiss the stone” because it is as old as Adam and Eve…

 

[TEPO]

Why on earth are you asking me these kind of questions??

Let’s just say that I have done certain things in my life which I am not proud of… but the difference here is that I am NOT saying that some of the things which I have done were not sinful.

It is an offense to the Lord if you think that you can enter into heaven with the filthy marks of sin upon your soul…

God will not accept such marks.

 

[grace_singh]

And as for Muslims bowing down towards the Kaaba in Makkah, we are really following the way how the Prophets (peace be upon them all) themselves worshiped their Lord.

the Quran says that any direction a human faces, there Allah is. it also instructs Muslims to bow down in the direction of the Ka’ba. why is it neccesary to worship Allah by bowing down to a man-made structure?

leaving out any arguements against Christianity and Judaism, if Islam sees itself as supperior to both, why worship Allah by bowing down to or in front of anything specific?

if you argue that the bowing is not worship, only respect, why take issue with Christians bowing in front of their own man-made images as a sign of respect? because Catholics argue the same, that they are not worshiping, only respecting. so why do Muslims get to respectfully bow in front of the Ka’ba, while Catholics can not respectfully bow to an image of Mary, or Christ?

in addtion, there are many early images of Mohammad, painted or drawn by Muslims themselves. this ban on images of Mohammad came quite a bit later.

 

[TEPO]

Why on earth are you asking me these kind of questions??

Let’s just say that I have done certain things in my life which I am not proud of… but the difference here is that I am NOT saying that some of the things which I have done were not sinful.

The Church, on the other hand, is indeed saying that bowing down to a statue of Mary is NOT sinful.

We Christians may take advantage of the gifts we’ve been given sometimes, but we’re not afraid to admit our sins… We tell God directly!

We are honest with God --Thats what matters!

Someday I hope that those people of Islam, before they take their last breath, will beg the almighty Father to forgive them for all the sins they are guilty of… The Father will send them to Jesus directly… They WILL have the opportunity to ask JESUS to forgive them for their sins… ONE LAST TIME…

And He will!

 

[TEPO]

I don’t think anyone is opposed to evangelizing. It is the tact you are using which isn’t helpful and is actually a hinderance to evangelizing. A more productive way to achieve your ends is to find some common ground. They believe in one God. They may not understand Him the way we do because they are lacking His revelation in the person of Jesus Christ. Maybe you could start there. But to walk up and hit them with a Christian club is going to do nothing but confirm their opinion of most Christians. Better to change that opinion by being charitable. Give them a reason to listen.

God bless and good luck!

The proper way to evangelize Muslims is found @ post# 45.

Only the truth will set them free.

Peace,
tepo

 

[TEPO]

When they ignore you – just wipe the dust from you’re sandals and move on!

 

[TEPO]

But dont ever, ever feel sorry enough for them, that you forget where you’re going… Or you’ll be like a pillar of salt!

 

[hamba2han]

Bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord is indeed an act of worship → Both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on this.

On the other hand, erecting statues and bowing down to them is a great sin → Both the Bible and the Qur’an are in agreement here.

And so, we can see that when it comes to the fundamental aspects of worship, both the Bible and the Qur’an are in complete agreement.

However, when the Church gets involved on issues of worship, then this is where the major differences arises with what Islam teaches.

 

[TEPO]

Bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord is indeed an act of worship → Both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on this.

On the other hand, erecting statues and bowing down to them is a great sin → Both the Bible and the Qur’an are in agreement here.

And so, we can see that when it comes to the fundamental aspects of worship, both the Bible and the Qur’an are in complete agreement.

However, when the Church gets involved on issues of worship, then this is where the major differences arises with what Islam teaches.

Actually the Church does not bow down to any temple… I dont know what you are talking about?

We genuflect to the tabernacle which contains the Body of Jesus though… But that is God… We are NOT bowing to the structure at all. Just what is inside.

 

[hamba2han]

Actually the Church does not bow down to any temple… I dont know what you are talking about?

We genuflect to the tabernacle which contains the Body of Jesus though… But that is God… We are NOT bowing to the structure at all. Just what is inside.

What I am saying is that the Church has forbidden an act of worship which both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on i.e. bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord and the Church has also allowed the act of bowing down to statues which both the Bible and the Qur’an says is a great sin.

In other words, the Church is going against the teachings of the Bible.

 

[TEPO]

What I am saying is that the Church has forbidden an act of worship which both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on i.e. bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord and the Church has also allowed the act of bowing down to statues which both the Bible and the Qur’an says is a great sin.

In other words, the Church is going against the teachings of the Bible.

I understand what you are saying, but what I meant was that the Church does not agree on bowing towards a Holy temple, because there is no such thing as a Holy temple…

Christians to not bow to temples… We bow to the Body of Christ which is made into real flesh… We bow down to no such temples.

Muslims are the ones who bow to temples…

Also, and most importantly, what ever makes you think that we are bowing down to a statue, and worshipping it? If a Catholic sees an image of Mary, then closes his eyes and kneels down, why must you insist that it is the actual statue that we are praising…

The purpose of the statue is only there to remind us WHO we should remember in prayer. The statues are there to remind us of the MEMORY of such persons. Kind of like a head-stone at the cemetary.

 

[TEPO]

If I die and my wife has a head-stone placed over my grave, does that mean that when my children come to visit me, that they are worshipping me?

Of course not.

 

[grace_singh]

Bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord is indeed an act of worship → Both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on this.

On the other hand, erecting statues and bowing down to them is a great sin → Both the Bible and the Qur’an are in agreement here.

And so, we can see that when it comes to the fundamental aspects of worship, both the Bible and the Qur’an are in complete agreement.

However, when the Church gets involved on issues of worship, then this is where the major differences arises with what Islam teaches.

at the same time, a statue and a building are both objects created with human hands. they both respresent divine power and authority to be bowed down to, and respected.

a Catholic will argue that they do not worship the image, but respect the power behind the image, when they bow down to it.

both are eretected and bowed down to, respectfully. both groups argue that they are not worshipping, and both excuse the veneration of man-made objects as in no way incompaitble with monotheism, and in no way idolatry.

do not Muslims have songs which they respectfully sing to Mohammad? i know that they do. they call Mohammad “pure”, “good”, beloved", and many other titles. is this idolatry, or shirk? a Muslim would say “no”, but then why get angry at Christians for revering people in the same way?

i’m not saying i personally agree with the reverencing of people or saints in the CC, but for the sake of argument, if you;re going to criticize Cathollics for bowing to an image of Mary, why not criticize your Muslim brethren for their nasheeds to the Rasool?

 

[TEPO]

at the same time, a statue and a building are both objects created with human hands. they both respresent divine power and authority to be bowed down to, and respected.

a Catholic will argue that they do not worship the image, but respect the power behind the image, when they bow down to it.

both are eretected and bowed down to, respectfully.

But we’re not even bowing to the object… We are bowing in prayer, which the object reminded us to do. So inevidably the object will still be in close proximity when we bow… Which is why we are charged with bowing to it.

But in all actuality, we do not even bow, we kneel… And we kneel in prayer.

My question is: are Muslims actually taught to bow down to the physical object of the building, or what…

I know that Catholics are not supposed to pray to the actual object, I’ve seen some Catholics touch and kiss the object but I do not think that is the actual teaching of the Church… Some people just happen to do it.

 

[TEPO]

The ones who kiss statues are usually the same ones who kiss their rosary after making the sign of the cross. I have NEVER been formally taught to do this!

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

I just had a painful talk with a muslim last night. He wanted to convince me that Jesus is not the Son of God. And he called the thought that God sent His son to become one of us “stupid.”

He also claimed that the church has put lies in the bible. He said that St. Paul was lying when he spoke of his conversion.

by claiming that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh, the teachings of islam are the work of the antichrist, according to scripture. I told him that we have been warned ahead of time that the antichrist would come and claim that Jesus is not the son of God. I told him that I was afraid of the teachings of islam.

 

[Della]

What I am saying is that the Church has forbidden an act of worship which both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on i.e. bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord and the Church has also allowed the act of bowing down to statues which both the Bible and the Qur’an says is a great sin.

In other words, the Church is going against the teachings of the Bible.

Excuse me, but the world wouldn’t even have the Bible if the Church hadn’t compiled it’s writings, handed it down carefully, copied and preserved it during the Dark Ages, and made its words available to people to read in the vernacular. The Church knows what the Bible teaches far better than anyone else. It knows how to interpret it and teach it.

The first commandment does not mean no images can be made of anything. It means we are not to worship them instead of God. It’s just that simple. Now you have been told the truth. If you persist in saying otherwise then you will be responsible before God for it.

It is obvious that if bowing down to the Lord’s Temple is all right then bowing before an image of the Lord or of a Saint who served God and is now living with God is perfectly all right as well. Logic! Why don’t they teach logic these days!

 

[Madaglan]

What I am saying is that the Church has forbidden an act of worship which both the Bible and the Qur’an agree on i.e. bowing down towards the holy temple of the Lord and the Church has also allowed the act of bowing down to statues which both the Bible and the Qur’an says is a great sin.

In other words, the Church is going against the teachings of the Bible.

The temple itself included pictorial and sculpted representations of heaven and earth.

The Old Testament injunction was good and intended to keep the Israelites from falling astray and worshiping foreign gods or gods of their own creation. The commandment still holds, although the pagan creation and synthesis of gods is not as common as it was in, say, ancient Egypt.

The Christian use of images and statues does not draw people away from God but brings them closer to God. Mary and the saints point to Christ, and Christ points to his Father.

 

[hamba2han]

Again, let us examine what the Second Commandment says in Leviticus:

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

Does anyone see the word “worship” in this verse of the Bible?

Like I have mentioned, the Second Commandment is warning against making any “graven images” and “bowing down” to these statues and pictures.

It does NOT explicitly warn against worshiping statues… but it does indeed warn against bowing down to them.

And so, I do not understand why Christians are so insistent on inserting the word “worship” into the Second Commandment because it only serves to cloud the true and crystal-clear meaning of this Commandment.