Islam and Afterlife

[Licht]

Aicirt: Yes, that is right. Is the Christian God bound to rules other than rules that come from Himself? It seems Pope Bendikt XVI alludes to this. He uses the term “logic” in such a way in my opinion.

If so, then there is a difference in outlook. It depends on how to interprete what the nature of logic is and where it originates from.

seraphime. In the Quran Allah indicates that things will be better and its an accepted interpretation that the pleasures will not deminish but instead become better every day. To understand the reality of this please read the last few paragraphs my post #261. Here is the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6740855&postcount=261

peace

 

[aicirt]

Aicirt: Yes, that is right. Is the Christian God bound to rules other than rules that come from Himself? It seems Pope Bendikt XVI alludes to this. He uses the term “logic” in such a way in my opinion.

If so, then there is a difference in outlook. It depends on how to interprete what the nature of logic is and where it originates from.

seraphime. In the Quran Allah indicates that things will be better and its an accepted interpretation that the pleasures will not deminish but instead become better every day. To understand the reality of this please read the last few paragraphs my post #261. Here is the link:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6740855&postcount=261

peace

Okay. I didn’t misunderstand. Allah is not tethered to any rules. He can say that something is sinful at one point and not a sin at another. Or Allah can make good evil and evil good.

So if Allah can make something sinful at one point and not a sin at another, how does a Muslim know if it is Allah that is speaking to him or Satan?

Logic, originates from God.

Yes, I understand that in your Muslim heaven you will have pleasures that will just keeping increasing over eternity. That’s fine. However, it is a sin for a Muslim to engage in adultery and/or fornication on this earth. I don’t see how a sin on this earth can be allowed in heaven/paradise with the aforementioned 72 virgins.

And not trying to bring up a sore point, but if Allah allows that why not homosexual acts?

It appears that Muslim heaven offers carte blanch for hetrosexual men and all others, including women, get very little and apparently keep their status of wives while their husbands now indulge in adultery.

 

[Licht]

In the Regensburg Speech Pope Benedikt XVI paints two views.

One is of God who submits His acts to logic.
Second is one same as the muslim belief.

In fact there is no difference between the two views if one understands the submission to logic as a self-restraint. If you disagree, then you basicly claim that logic is a category independant of God and thus you deny God’s Omnipotence.

You say: “I don’t see how a sin on this earth can be allowed in heaven/paradise with the aforementioned 72 virgins.” ive elaborated this point sufficiently.

You further ask “what if Allah…”. It is not befitting of a believer in the God to dwelve into “what if God…” questions. This leads to disblief and doom. According to Muslim belief, many folk have gone astray because of such questions which resulted into disbelief.

Finally: “It appears that Muslim heaven offers carte blanch for hetrosexual men and all others, including women, get very little and apparently keep their status of wives while their husbands now indulge in adultery.” This is plain wrong. It sufficies to say that women will be more than satisfied with their reward because this is a promise of the All-mighty God, He who is Just to all His creation. Questioning these fundamentals is a desease of heart and a weakness of faith.

peace

 

[Licht]

You are accusing me of cowardly intellectual outlook which is not nice. Reflect on my words and come with substantial arguments not a personal attack. My words are sincere.

If you believe in God’s Omnipotence and He promises satisfactory reward for the believers, men and women, then you believe. This is truth and not cowardice mind you!

peace

 

[hamba2han]

All questions regarding the Creator will be answered in full in the Hereafter by the Lord Himself.

After all, the fortunate creations who will enter Paradise will have all of eternity to ask these questions to their Creator.

Muslims, in general, are satisfied to wait till the Hereafter in order to learn the answers to all of our questions that we wish to ask the Lord.

Christians however, apparently want to learn the answers to these questions while still in this world.

Urgency in wanting to know about why the Lord does or does not do the things that He does is really not necessary folks, all of our questions will be answered in Paradise… but alas, not in Hell I fear.

 

[aicirt]

In the Regensburg Speech Pope Benedikt XVI paints two views.

One is of God who submits His acts to logic.
Second is one same as the muslim belief.

In fact there is no difference between the two views if one understands the submission to logic as a self-restraint. If you disagree, then you basicly claim that logic is a category independant of God and thus you deny God’s Omnipotence.

You say: “I don’t see how a sin on this earth can be allowed in heaven/paradise with the aforementioned 72 virgins.” ive elaborated this point sufficiently.

You further ask “what if Allah…”. It is not befitting of a believer in the God to dwelve into “what if God…” questions. This leads to disblief and doom. According to Muslim belief, many folk have gone astray because of such questions which resulted into disbelief.

Finally: “It appears that Muslim heaven offers carte blanch for hetrosexual men and all others, including women, get very little and apparently keep their status of wives while their husbands now indulge in adultery.” This is plain wrong. It sufficies to say that women will be more than satisfied with their reward because this is a promise of the All-mighty God, He who is Just to all His creation. Questioning these fundamentals is a desease of heart and a weakness of faith.

peace

Yes, I can see how such questions can result in disbelief.

Logic in this discussion would be this: Allah can do anything He wants. Even contradict his own laws. Pleasures are granted in Muslim heaven. This includes enjoying 72 women who a Muslim would not be able to enjoy on earth because it is a sin to fornicate and/or commit adultery. Okay.

Moving on with the logic presented, one would think that other pleasures forbidden on earth are allowed in Muslim heaven. Yes, Muslims in heaven may now endulge in alcholol.

Again, moving on with that logic,because the ban in Muslim paradise is removed on three sins: fornication, adultery, and alcholol, why wouldn’t the ban be removed on other carnal pleasures?

Muslim women: why is it that it is assumed Muslim women will be happy with their husbands? Why can’t a Muslim man be happy with his wife as she must be with him? Would you be just as happy without the 72 companions? Would it make a difference to you if you had to spend eternity with one woman?

I’m not trying to get you upset.

 

[Booklover]

If an act like i.e. drinking wine is forbidden in this life and is not forbidden in the hereafter, so i ask anyone here, why would that be a problem to anyone?

It doesn’t make sense! If it’s allowed in heaven, then why forbid it on earth?

Vickie

 

[aicirt]

All questions regarding the Creator will be answered in full in the Hereafter by the Lord Himself.

After all, the fortunate creations who will enter Paradise will have all of eternity to ask these questions to their Creator.

Muslims, in general, are satisfied to wait till the Hereafter in order to learn the answers to all of our questions that we wish to ask the Lord.

Christians however, apparently want to learn the answers to these questions while still in this world.

Urgency in wanting to know about why the Lord does or does not do the things that He does is really not necessary folks, all of our questions will be answered in Paradise… but alas, not in Hell I fear.

So you have many questions too re. Islam.

Are you encouraged to ask questions when you are studying your religion or is it expected that you just accept what is being told to you?

Catholics accept things on faith and know that we’ll never fully understand God because we are not HIm.

And it is necessary to discern lest one be led astray and lose his soul through sin. That is why God blessed us with intelligence that exceeds that of animals. We must use the gifts He has given us. We must think.

 

[jakasaki]

• islam - do not question it - result hell fire
• mohamad - do not question him - result hell fire
• koran - do not question it - result hell fire
• allah - ??? - result hell fire
• hell fire is waiting for you if you question islam, mohamad, koran & allah.

 

[famdigy]

It doesn’t make sense! If it’s allowed in heaven, then why forbid it on earth?

Vickie

We are forbidden from indulging in a lot of things on earth as a test of the sincerity of our character. The wine in Heaven does not intoxicate like the wine on earth. God knows what is best for us and requested from us to stay away from Alcohol in this life because of it’s spiritual and physical consequences.

 

[famdigy]

I suppose that depends your definition of wine. There are wines out there branded as “non-alcoholic” where the alcohol is removed through a filtration system. This deacoholized wine is still wine by definition.

 

[aicirt]

So it would be grape juice?

 

[Justin1982]

It appears that in Christianity, God is teaching us and training us to love so that we recognize what is truly important and we can appreciate what Heaven has to offer.

Whereas in Islam, God tells you to deny your carnal pleasures on earth because you will fulfill them in Heaven and giving into them on earth will land you in hell.

Life on earth is a small taste of God’s love in Heaven when you fulfill your duties as a Christian. Islam is the denial of love and fulfillment of personal pleasures if you live your life by Allah’s teachings reaching Heaven.

Just a broad overview of comparative thoughts I’ve collected during this discussion, correct me if I’m missing the mark.

 

[aicirt]

There are two branches of Muslims: Sunni and Shia. Do both of you have the same view of Muslim afterflife? Does one doubt that the other will achieve heaven?

What is 12 Shia Muslim?

 

[jakasaki]

Look at it this way -

islam/koran/hadiths/mohamad…

Offers wine, 72 virgins, gold, silver, silk, reclining couches, 80,000 servants, young boys, enormous tents, foods, pearls, rubbies… … etc… etc…

And not one Christian has said…

"Yeah… hoooray… " I’ll covert to islam…

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[jakasaki]

There are two branches of Muslims: Sunni and Shia. Do both of you have the same view of Muslim afterflife? Does one doubt that the other will achieve heaven?

What is 12 Shia Muslim?

I know what 12 Shia is, but because Famdigy is a Shia Muslim, I’ll have him address this…

 

[Licht]

Your understandings of Islam is very crude and you all here tend to jump the wagon and start comparing and concluding on your crude understanding. There is very less sincerity shown by those who posted in here from the christian folks.

You are all willing to point out to the supposed contradictions that you see. I have given quite some time to dessolve them and then the same questions appear again. One has to ask, do the people really read, truely try to understand, what the others write? I appears no. And in any debate there comes a point where you have questions dealing with knowledge that no one possesses. Then it is best to say “Only God knows; or: God knows best”.

Aicirt: “Logic in this discussion would be this: Allah can do anything He wants. Even contradict his own laws.” There is no logic in the underlined sentence. He Who makes the Laws does not “contradict” Himself by changing them.

“Again, moving on with that logic,because the ban in Muslim paradise is removed on three sins: fornication, adultery, and alcholol, why wouldn’t the ban be removed on other carnal pleasures?” Already answerd. Reread my posts. Its about the nature of mankind.

Booklover: “It doesn’t make sense! If it’s allowed in heaven, then why forbid it on earth?” Its about the different nature of eartly and heavenly life. Re-read my posts. If you still have questions left ask them please.

Re questioning everything: something likes questioning God’s Omnipotence is a dease of heart, a lack in faith and a whisper of Satan. Any sincere believer knows this. Please dont make a big deal out of it, we are all believers here!

peace

 

[aicirt]

Your understandings of Islam is very crude and you all here tend to jump the wagon and start comparing and concluding on your crude understanding. There is very less sincerity shown by those who posted in here from the christian folks.

You are all willing to point out to the supposed contradictions that you see. I have given quite some time to dessolve them and then the same questions appear again. One has to ask, do the people really read, truely try to understand, what the others write? I appears no. And in any debate there comes a point where you have questions dealing with knowledge that no one possesses. Then it is best to say “Only God knows; or: God knows best”.

Aicirt: “Logic in this discussion would be this: Allah can do anything He wants. Even contradict his own laws.” There is no logic in the underlined sentence. He Who makes the Laws does not “contradict” Himself by changing them.

“Again, moving on with that logic,because the ban in Muslim paradise is removed on three sins: fornication, adultery, and alcholol, why wouldn’t the ban be removed on other carnal pleasures?” Already answerd. Reread my posts. Its about the nature of mankind.

Booklover: “It doesn’t make sense! If it’s allowed in heaven, then why forbid it on earth?” Its about the different nature of eartly and heavenly life. Re-read my posts. If you still have questions left ask them please.

Re questioning everything: something likes questioning God’s Omnipotence is a dease of heart, a lack in faith and a whisper of Satan. Any sincere believer knows this. Please dont make a big deal out of it, we are all believers here!

peace

I agree Licht, it is very frustrating. I’ve tried to connect the dots, as we say, but doesn’t seem to work.

You have to understand how totally alien this is to Catholic and other Christian theology.

Are you surprised that we Catholics are not going to have sex in heaven? Our western culture is criticzied for our permissiveness yet here you are talking to a bunch of Catholics, and other Christians, who can’t even imagine sex in heaven. That having wine or not having wine, really isn’t important to Catholics although we are allowed to drink here on earth. That we Catholics believe what is wrong on earth can’t be allowed in heaven.

Sure we have a crude understanding. And I’ll assume your understanding of Catholicism is pretty elementary too.

Logic, for us, is God will not make what is a sin on earth to be permitted in heaven. You think differently.

Don’t get upset. It is difficult for me to get my thoughts across to you too. We are talking from two different worlds.

 

[Licht]

“Sure we have a crude understanding. And I’ll assume your understanding of Catholicism is pretty elementary too.” I dont like comparing religions. It sufficies to underline a common faith in God. Thats what Muslims are supposed to do when disucssing religion.

Aicirt tell me from your perspective. Did God ever make something lawful after it was unlawful or vice versa? Possibly with some Bible quotes because scriptural grounding is important to me.

 

[aicirt]

“Sure we have a crude understanding. And I’ll assume your understanding of Catholicism is pretty elementary too.” I dont like comparing religions. It sufficies to underline a common faith in God. Thats what Muslims are supposed to do when disucssing religion.

Aicirt tell me from your perspective. Did God ever make something lawful after it was unlawful or vice versa? Possibly with some Bible quotes because scriptural grounding is important to me.

We’re not going to get any where if we don’t discuss the differences. If there weren’t differences, we’d have one faith. Not discussing the differences would be like ignoring the elephant in the living room.

Circumcision comes to mind which was dropped by Christians because we had a new covenant. But as far as sin, the 10 Commandments haven’t changed. They show us our restrictions on earth and those restrictions remain in Catholic heaven.

Maybe someone else can give you some additional information.