Islam and porc

  • Thread starter Thread starter inJESUS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Booklover said:
Does this finally answer your question??
Click to expand...
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No, I’m afraid it does not answer my question.
 
hamba2han said:
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No, I’m afraid it does not answer my question.
Click to expand...
Nevertheless, he stated what I posted. Even if he had said: “eating pork is okay” you would not believe it, because it contradicts what you believe.

Tell me, in what way does not eating pork make one a better person?

Vickie
 
hamba2han said:
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No, I’m afraid it does not answer my question.
Click to expand...
Jews were initially commanded by God to follow His Commandments without the need/command to convert others to the Hebrew faith. This lasted for almost 2000 years, and as a people they followed religious, diatary and social laws prescribed by God that others did not and were not meant to since God Himslef limited the Jews as His own.

Jesus was a Jew and lived as one fully with a few noted late exceptions (like picking corn on the Sabbath, eating/staying with the ‘unclean’…). Please note how Jesus showed how the Jews themsleves failed at fully discerning teh Law. He said He was sent only to the Jews in order for the Law to be fulfilled, but not that His messege was only for the Jews.

If you would like to re-debate what Peter, Paul and James decided in Acts- do so from that point and not from the point of Mohamed 600 years later. They discussed if Gentiles should convert to Judaism and abide by the Jewish law that was now completed in order to be a follower of Christ. What part of their decision do you find illogical?
Acts 15: 6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Click to expand...
 
Booklover said:
Tell me, in what way does not eating pork make one a better person?
Click to expand...
Following the ways of Jesus (pbuh) would make one a better person.

Doing something like eating pork which clearly contradicts his true teachings would make one considerably less good in the eyes of God.

Christians need to remember that there is a reason why God forbids certain kinds of food for his servants.

Put aside the question of the meat of camels for a while and contemplate on why God has forbidden the consumption of the meat of swine.
 
hamba2han said:
Following the ways of Jesus (pbuh) would make one a better person.

Doing something like eating pork which clearly contradicts his true teachings would make one considerably less good in the eyes of God.

Christians need to remember that there is a reason why God forbids certain kinds of food for his servants.

Put aside the question of the meat of camels for a while and contemplate on why God has forbidden the consumption of the meat of swine.
Click to expand...
Let us be honest hamba, Muslims and Christians disagree on what the true teachings of Jesus are so from both camps you can easily argue that the other is not following His teaching and are therefor “considerably less good in the eyes of God”.

Why do Muslim honor some Jewish dietary laws but not all of them?

You won’t eat some things God deemed unclean, but will eat other things He deemed unclean. Why is that? The species of the animal is not as relavant as why Muslims only honor some laws while claiming the moral high ground.
 
Verisimilitude said:
He said He was sent only to the Jews in order for the Law to be fulfilled, but not that His messege was only for the Jews.
Click to expand...
This simply does not compute and even if it did, I would think that it is all the more reason why non-Jews should be obeying the divine commandment not to eat pork.
 
hamba2han said:
This simply does not compute and even if it did, I would think that it is all the more reason why non-Jews should be obeying the divine commandment not to eat pork.
Click to expand...
What about other divine commandments that Muslims ignore? I am sincerly curious how this is justified when Christian justification does not “compute”.
 
hamba2han said:
Perhaps it would be better if “Muslim Jews/Jewish Muslims??” (they are now Muslims actually) explain the similarities and differences between halal and kosher food.

jews-for-allah.org/Jews-and-Muslims-Agree/halal_is_kosher.htm
Click to expand...
“We find that the foods that have been forbidden in the Torah yet allowed in the Quran are the ones that do not cause harm or illness according to medical tests.”

This is all fine and good, but any food can cause “harm or illness” if not stored, handled or prepared properly. Pork was an issue before refrigation, but now pork is as safe as any other food. Do you eat chicken? More people get sick from chicken than pork.
 
hamba2han said:
This simply does not compute and even if it did, I would think that it is all the more reason why non-Jews should be obeying the divine commandment not to eat pork.
Click to expand...
24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Luke 24:44
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

If God has made clean what was unclean- who are you to argue with God?

Acts 10:15
The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
 
hamba2han said:
Matthew 5
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

No, I’m afraid it does not answer my question.
Click to expand...
If you look at the rest of Matthew 5, and also 6 and 7, you see how Jesus is giving new instructions, explaining the way things really should be done. In Mt. 15, 6 he states “you have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition.” What you fail to understand, is that the pharisees had encumbered the Jews with many man made laws that were being passed as God’s laws. They were so concerned with externals, that they ignored the really important thing, the state of the soul.

See this link regarding the eating of pork. I’ve quoted a small part of the article below.

“It should also be pointed out that since Jesus finally came into the world, there was no longer any need for the Children of Israel to remain a distinct and exclusive community. In fact, Jesus had now come to unite all cultures of the world unto God and to empower people of all races to live up to the holiness of the great moral laws of God. It is obvious that as this community grows worldwide there are no civil laws that can be common to all, because of great differences in environment and climate. Nevertheless, the great moral teaching of Jesus remains the same for everyone: it is not the abstinence of food that brings great glory to the Almighty, but rather the expression of genuine love for God and fellowman! This law can apply to anyone and to anyplace in the world!
It should also be noted that the Mosaic Law was for the Children of Israel, and since most Christians are not descendants of Israel, they are not subject to the civil laws that dealt with community practice.”

Hamba, hope this explains it better!

Vickie 🙂
 
Booklover said:
“It should also be pointed out that since Jesus finally came into the world, there was no longer any need for the Children of Israel to remain a distinct and exclusive community. In fact, Jesus had now come to unite all cultures of the world unto God and to empower people of all races to live up to the holiness of the great moral laws of God. It is obvious that as this community grows worldwide there are no civil laws that can be common to all, because of great differences in environment and climate. Nevertheless, the great moral teaching of Jesus remains the same for everyone: it is not the abstinence of food that brings great glory to the Almighty, but rather the expression of genuine love for God and fellowman! This law can apply to anyone and to anyplace in the world!
It should also be noted that the Mosaic Law was for the Children of Israel, and since most Christians are not descendants of Israel, they are not subject to the civil laws that dealt with community practice.”

Vickie 🙂
Click to expand...
Thanks for the article. The portion you quoted is stated very well and explains things nicely!
 
Prior to Muhammed, his people had a god for every day of the week. If your going to make up a religion to unite your people, what do you do? Along the trade routes Muhammed had access to Jews and Christians. He picked what he liked and took notes. Once he got it all together, meditation (hashish was available) , he proceeded to try to shove it down his peoples throat.

The laws were his now and since he was establishing a made up religion, nothing could be heretical since it was outside other religions. Very clever. Now he had a hard sell when he went back home. Darn near got killed. Interesting that Muslims bowed to Jerusalem in the beginning, but when Muhammed was rejected by the Jews for obvious reasons, the Muslims began to bow to Mecca. I think they were confused like Muhammed.👍 And still are fanatically confused today.:rolleyes:
 
Stll waiting hamba! Or are you going to ignore this subject as you have no real answer to our questions?
 
Booklover said:
If you look at the rest of Matthew 5, and also 6 and 7, you see how Jesus is giving new instructions, explaining the way things really should be done. In Mt. 15, 6 he states “you have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition.” What you fail to understand, is that the pharisees had encumbered the Jews with many man made laws that were being passed as God’s laws. They were so concerned with externals, that they ignored the really important thing, the state of the soul.
Click to expand...
No matter how much Christians try to twist and turn the issue, the point of the matter is that actions speak a whole lot louder than words… especially for people with truly unimpeachable honesty and integrity like all the Prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) chosen by God to help guide humankind.

Can any Christian here deny the fact that Jesus (pbuh) NEVER ate the flesh of swine throughout his entire life?

He abstained from it religiously because it was a command from God not to.

Well then, if this was the action of Jesus (pbuh) during his time in this world, why are Christians trying their utmost to cling on to what he supposedly said after his alleged crucifixion?

Never forget – Actions speak a lot louder than words.

Does not the actions of Jesus (pbuh) in religiously abstaining from eating pork as recorded in the scriptures speak very much louder than his supposed words somehow allowing it as claimed by others?
 
hamba2han said:
No matter how much Christians try to twist and turn the issue, the point of the matter is that actions speak a whole lot louder than words… especially for people with truly unimpeachable honesty and integrity like all the Prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) chosen by God to help guide humankind.
Click to expand...
All true prophets, that is! So-called “prophets” who claimed that lying is okay need not apply.
Can any Christian here deny the fact that Jesus (pbuh) NEVER ate the flesh of swine throughout his entire life?
Click to expand...
How do you know for a fact that he didn’t? The Bible says nothing about that. I’ve already shown you the quote that states that he declared all foods clean. This has been quoted many times before and I’m not going to waste my time typing it again.
He abstained from it religiously because it was a command from God not to.

Well then, if this was the action of Jesus (pbuh) during his time in this world, why are Christians trying their utmost to cling on to what he supposedly said after his alleged crucifixion?
Click to expand...
That quote is before his crucifixion!
Never forget – Actions speak a lot louder than words.

Does not the actions of Jesus (pbuh) in religiously abstaining from eating pork as recorded in the scriptures speak very much louder than his supposed words somehow allowing it as claimed by others?
Click to expand...
You really have no answer, so you try the holier than thou approach. :rolleyes: The problem with Muslims is that you cannot accept any belief that is contrary to your own.

If God didn’t want us to eat pork, he wouldn’t have made it so delicious! :extrahappy: 😃 😃

Vickie
 
hamba2han said:
Never forget – Actions speak a lot louder than words.
Click to expand...
That is right!!! And THAT is why Islam is judged to be a violant, backwards, chauvinistic “religion”! Not the Western media, not our “blind thinking” but the ACTIONS OF MUSLIMS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM! Don’t ever forget that!
 
George_Waters said:
That is right!!! And THAT is why Islam is judged to be a violant, backwards, chauvinistic “religion”! Not the Western media, not our “blind thinking” but the ACTIONS OF MUSLIMS IN THE NAME OF ISLAM! Don’t ever forget that!
Click to expand...
👍 👍 👍

Vickie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top