Islam and the Trinity

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Believe I read in CA Magazine that in Islam, the Quran tells people to not believe in the Trinity, and that the Trinity was made up of God, Jesus, and Mary.

If so, wouldn’t this prove the falsity of Islam? As Islam is based upon Mohammed receiving the revelation from God, but there could not be a factual error in a revelation from God. Not focused on the doctrine of the Trinity, but on the makeup of the Trinity. What I mean is that this fundamental misunderstanding shows ignorance about the actual beliefs of Christians. As God is not ignorant, this message to Mohammed is not from God.
 
Well in the first place the real educated to the Catholic Faith would never engage such an article to “criticize” the religion of others. Directly that which the Catholic leadership as deemed as Unappropriate to scorn, as your pointing out CA to be do exactly what it should not be doing…

what is far more important to recognize is the “ignorance” of those that deem themselves to be of a Catholic mind, and attack other religions in defiance to what the Catholic faith calls them to…and NOT to do…

It increasingly comes to be recognized that the “Catholics” of the America are extremely ignorant and uneducated to their Catechism of the Catholic faith… the have self liberalized themselves to judge others.
 
guess it would also prove the falsity of the Jewish religion if it fails to recognize Jesus as well?

Now Catholic answers couldnt ever print that, they might loss their finacial backers, never know…
 
wanabesaint said:
guess it would also prove the falsity of the Jewish religion if it fails to recognize Jesus as well?

Now Catholic answers couldnt ever print that, they might loss their finacial backers, never know…
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There’s a key difference.

The argument isn’t being made that the Qur’an is disproven by its denial of the trinity. Rather, the OP is pointing out that Islam’s holy book does not accurately describe a fundamental Christian doctrine, which demonstrates that its authorship was not omniscient–and, therefore, not divine.
 
wanabesaint said:
Well in the first place the real educated to the Catholic Faith would never engage such an article to “criticize” the religion of others. Directly that which the Catholic leadership as deemed as Unappropriate to scorn, as your pointing out CA to be do exactly what it should not be doing…

what is far more important to recognize is the “ignorance” of those that deem themselves to be of a Catholic mind, and attack other religions in defiance to what the Catholic faith calls them to…and NOT to do…

It increasingly comes to be recognized that the “Catholics” of the America are extremely ignorant and uneducated to their Catechism of the Catholic faith… the have self liberalized themselves to judge others.
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If an Evangelical tract accuses Catholics of idolatry, would you not find it objectionable? Would you not feel compelled to respond? Would explaining the true Catholic doctrine on the issue and pointing out the author as being profoundly mistaken be the same as “scorn[ing]” and “judg[ing]” their Protestant faith? :confused:
 
zz912 said:
Believe I read in CA Magazine that in Islam, the Quran tells people to not believe in the Trinity, and that the Trinity was made up of God, Jesus, and Mary.
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Hello,

I would say that this is a common error that Many Christians fall into and propagate between each other as a fact. While they have not read the Quran themselves.

Let me make it more clear… the Quran doesn’t define the trinity… at all… the Quran mentions what should not be worshiped . The verse that confuses people is below

quran.com/5/116

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

Now that verse doesn’t include any trinity… but it says that Jesus and Mary could have been regarded as deities as well as God . In Islam … the definition of a deity or a god is broader. If you lift your hands in the air and say ‘’ o Mary bless me with food and shelter’’ then you are taking her as a deity or as a God . This has nothing to do with being a part of a trinity or not . In Islam there is one God who is worthy of supplication, prayer or worship… the rest are humans … including Mary and Jesus.

The Quran is not concerned with defining trinity… it is concerned with showing muslims what is wrong .

quran.com/4/171

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Now you see from the previous verse… There is no definition of the trinity either… basically God is saying…’’ Don’t say Three’’ He is saying there is nothing called the trinity… There is one God and the rest are creatures … including the holy spirit and Jesus, Mary etc…

I have brought you the concerned verses from the Quran itself… you can se there is no definition of the trinity there . In fact… the word trinity is not mentioned…

I hope that would just stop this popular myth.

Best regards,
 
The quran has no actual indepth knowledge of the trinity itself. Rather only a strawman of the trinity is offered, assuming the quran is talking to Christians who were hte majority back then, IE nicene christians, would make sense but i wouldnt put it past Muhammad to confuse Heretics with Christians.
 
meedo said:
Hello,

I would say that this is a common error that Many Christians fall into and propagate between each other as a fact. While they have not read the Quran themselves.

Let me make it more clear… the Quran doesn’t define the trinity… at all… the Quran mentions what should not be worshiped . The verse that confuses people is below

quran.com/5/116

And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?’” He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

Now that verse doesn’t include any trinity… but it says that Jesus and Mary could have been regarded as deities as well as God . In Islam … the definition of a deity or a god is broader. If you lift your hands in the air and say ‘’ o Mary bless me with food and shelter’’ then you are taking her as a deity or as a God . This has nothing to do with being a part of a trinity or not . In Islam there is one God who is worthy of supplication, prayer or worship… the rest are humans … including Mary and Jesus.

The Quran is not concerned with defining trinity… it is concerned with showing muslims what is wrong .

quran.com/4/171

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Now you see from the previous verse… There is no definition of the trinity either… basically God is saying…’’ Don’t say Three’’ He is saying there is nothing called the trinity… There is one God and the rest are creatures … including the holy spirit and Jesus, Mary etc…

I have brought you the concerned verses from the Quran itself… you can se there is no definition of the trinity there . In fact… the word trinity is not mentioned…

I hope that would just stop this popular myth.

Best regards,
Click to expand...
I might have read it wrong but it sounds like it is saying that Allah is saying that Jesus said to take He and his Mother as deities. If thats the case, nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say that. But there is in the Bible Jesus refering to God and Himself as one and when Jesus died, His Spirit was sent to the apostles, hence a Trinity 🙂
 
kimg901 said:
I might have read it wrong but it sounds like it is saying that Allah is saying that Jesus said to take He and his Mother as deities. If thats the case, nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say that. But there is in the Bible Jesus refering to God and Himself as one and when Jesus died, His Spirit was sent to the apostles, hence a Trinity 🙂
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It makes you wonder who the quran is speaking to? Non existent Collyridians or is it simply mistaking veneration of the Theotokos for worship of her as God?
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
It makes you wonder who the quran is speaking to? Non existent Collyridians or is it simply mistaking veneration of the Theotokos for worship of her as God?
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It sure does. Ive briefly read the quran one day. I will not say anything bad about it but ill stick to my Bible. But alot of other religions think we catholics worship the Blessed Mother. Honor yes, worship, no.
 
kimg901 said:
I might have read it wrong but it sounds like it is saying that Allah is saying that Jesus said to take He and his Mother as deities. If thats the case, nowhere in the Holy Bible does it say that. But there is in the Bible Jesus refering to God and Himself as one and when Jesus died, His Spirit was sent to the apostles, hence a Trinity 🙂
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Hi my friend,

The Quran doesn’t conform with the NT… or else muslims would be Christians. I explained the concept of a deity in Islam above . A deity in Islam is anything addressed with the tools that are designed for God… ‘’ Jesus, forgive my sins ‘’ makes Jesus a deity … ‘’ Mother Mary… intercede for us ‘’ makes Mary a deity. Anything that is elevated with to a position where it is treated or addressed as a god becomes a deity.
 
meedo said:
Hi my friend,

The Quran doesn’t conform with the NT… or else muslims would be Christians. I explained the concept of a deity in Islam above . A deity in Islam is anything addressed with the tools that are designed for God… ‘’ Jesus, forgive my sins ‘’ makes Jesus a deity … ‘’ Mother Mary… intercede for us ‘’ makes Mary a deity. Anything that is elevated with to a position where it is treated or addressed as a god becomes a deity.
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Thanks for the clarification 😃
 
meedo said:
The Quran is narrating a dialogue between God and Jesus.
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And that dialogue is obviously against certain people, certain people who would have corrupted the message of Jesus. Otherewise there is no point. No one at hte time of Jesus worshipped Mary for him to speak to, but at the time of Muhammad we know of the devotions and honours given to the virgin mary by Orthodox Christians. Its pure anachronism on Muhammad’s part. At least thats what It seems like to me.
 
meedo said:
Hi my friend,

The Quran doesn’t conform with the NT… or else muslims would be Christians. I explained the concept of a deity in Islam above . A deity in Islam is anything addressed with the tools that are designed for God… ‘’ Jesus, forgive my sins ‘’ makes Jesus a deity … ‘’ Mother Mary… intercede for us ‘’ makes Mary a deity. Anything that is elevated with to a position where it is treated or addressed as a god becomes a deity.
Click to expand...
So i take it you reject Muslims asking for hte intercession of Muslims?

If I say, Saint Ignatius pray for me a sinner, do I make him God?
 
wanabesaint said:
Well in the first place the real educated to the Catholic Faith would never engage such an article to “criticize” the religion of others. Directly that which the Catholic leadership as deemed as Unappropriate to scorn, as your pointing out CA to be do exactly what it should not be doing…

what is far more important to recognize is the “ignorance” of those that deem themselves to be of a Catholic mind, and attack other religions in defiance to what the Catholic faith calls them to…and NOT to do…

It increasingly comes to be recognized that the “Catholics” of the America are extremely ignorant and uneducated to their Catechism of the Catholic faith… the have self liberalized themselves to judge others.
Click to expand...
👍
Well said.
Sadly, Some individuals think that to prove your religion right, you have to demean others’ :o
 
wanabesaint said:
Well in the first place the real educated to the Catholic Faith would never engage such an article to “criticize” the religion of others. Directly that which the Catholic leadership as deemed as Unappropriate to scorn, as your pointing out CA to be do exactly what it should not be doing…
Click to expand...
I guess John of Damascus should have been more respectful and not criticised islam or Muhammad.
 
to copy out of the Catholic Catechism that superceded all that is said here… and to that point out this to be an example of the Great War of today on Religion, that Catholics find themselve not only in, but fighting the war on Religion themseves, a Mortal sin…

the second vatican council spoke on the Moslems.

they follow Abraham, adore the one and Mercyful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
though they do not knowlege Jesus as God, it does rever Him as Prophet, and honors His virgin mohter.

Your obligation as a Catholic is, “forget the past (forgive others of their tresspasses that we might be forgiven for ours) and strive sincerely for mutual understanding , and, on behalf of all mankind, make common cause of safeguarding social justce, moral values, peace, and freedom”…
From the Second Vatican councils.
So from this point forward, in being educated to what the Catholic Church calls us to, WE can never again hold a bigotry against the Islamic faith, for that would be a mortal sin…

ignorance of religion does not excuss us from sin, but to teach others to be defiant to the Catholic faith, is a mortal sin, and we are not excussed from that in any way shape or form. its an unforgiveable sin to war on religion, that we cannot do, nor teach others to do…

Jesus never called on his followers to war on religion, that is a given.
 
wanabesaint said:
Well in the first place the real educated to the Catholic Faith would never engage such an article to “criticize” the religion of others. Directly that which the Catholic leadership as deemed as Unappropriate to scorn, as your pointing out CA to be do exactly what it should not be doing…

what is far more important to recognize is the “ignorance” of those that deem themselves to be of a Catholic mind, and attack other religions in defiance to what the Catholic faith calls them to…and NOT to do…

It increasingly comes to be recognized that the “Catholics” of the America are extremely ignorant and uneducated to their Catechism of the Catholic faith… the have self liberalized themselves to judge others.
Click to expand...
You seem to have totally missed the point of my post. I was asking about what I viewed as a factual error in the Quran that would be impossible if the message giver was omniscient. The whole point of the post was to ask a question, and if accurate, clear up my “ignorance” on the matter.

Now you have a great day!
 
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