Islam and the Trinity

[MartinJordan]

Just like the virginal birth of Jesus

My humble request better not merge another subject within the Trinity’s scope of the Divine Mystery to be fair to Meedo. Let him understand where we’re coming from or it will all be too much:getholy:

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Meedo further to my clarifications I think you might find the following useful:

From early Christian St. Gregory of Neocaesarea from year 260-270:

“There is therefore nothing created, nothing greater or less (literally, nothing subject) in the Trinity (oute oun ktiston ti, he doulon en te triadi), nothing superadded, as though it had not existed before, but never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit; and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever”

Such a formula, stating clearly the distinction between the Persons in the Trinity, and emphasizing the eternity, equality, immortality, and perfection, not only of the Father, but of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, proclaims a marked advance on the theories of Origen. :newadvent.org/cathen/07015a.htm

MJ

 

[GaryTaylor]

We can admit that Allah has a spirit and a word

Can you elaborate on this what happens through Allah the spirit and word? Allah sends his spirit through the word? So when he sends the spirit through the word all are still one?

 

[zz912]

I would like to know… seriously… in good faith… why for example is Christianity different from Judaism . What is Christianity?

In regards to reading the bible… yes i did… not all of it … but i read as much as interested me. There is no such thing in this modern age as allowed or not allowed… everything is on the net.

Your last paragraph nails it on the head. We have no clue how to make sense of the trinity or understand why it is needed. You actually have some good points in your post.

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. The Jewish faith was God enacting a covenant with His people, that He would send a messiah to save them. Jesus is the Messiah, and He is also God. God Himself made Himself man, so that He could offer Himself up for our sins, and reconcile mankind to God.

As to reading the Bible, the best way is to start with the New Testament, and specifically the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke , and John. If you start from the beginning with Genesis, you will get bogged down in the minutia of the ritual laws and ceremonial prescriptions for the Old Covenant in the books of Leviticus and Numbers. I would start with the New Testament first, and then begin the Old Testament.

 

[meedo]

God is one entity. Three persons of one substance. Hard to grasp I know my friend. Nevertheless the truth is what it is whether we understand it or not does not change it.

From what I understand in Islamic theology God is unknowable. We know his attributes, but ultimately speaking God is unknowable.

Hello Augustine,

Yeah , i am trying to tweak my understanding now , i want to get out of this thread with a clear understanding of the definition of the trinity.

In Islam God is knowable to the extent he wants us to know about him. Of course he isn’t knowable to the extent that humans seen him walk this earth like Christianity. But otherwise i don’t see any difference. He is compassionate , forgiving, loving, sad for our sins , angry at our injustices . Vengeful against the abusers and most importantly … he gives every body chances …many of them.

I am curious to know in what way God is knowable in Christianity. ( Apart from the fact that he incarnated and walked this earth as a human)

Thanks for your patience my friend,

 

[meedo]

You are very close Meedo. But The “Persons” are NOT separate entities but they are distinct. If “separated” that would be contradiction. The Persons are of the same nature. That is why I point out Divinity .

Thus not separate Divinities which would be then “Gods”

Peace.

MJ

Martin,

Really thanks for helping me tweak this. So i wil try to rephrase

Christians believe that God is one… consists of 3 persons …These 3 persons are distinct . They don’t morph from one to the other. They are separate and have always been separate and has always been there as separate persons . Thus , they are not created from each other … but they have all been there together, with each other ,before creation as three persons. They are of the same divine substance . More like 3triangles in the same bigger triangle ( one divinity).

Did i get it right?

Have i understood it correct?

 

[meedo]

Can you elaborate on this what happens through Allah the spirit and word? Allah sends his spirit through the word? So when he sends the spirit through the word all are still one?

Hello Gary ,

The word has many meanings. But for example Jesus is considered the word of God because he was created unnaturally through a direct ‘‘word’’ from God. In this instance’’ it is the word ‘’ Be’’ … as in … ‘‘Be a child without a father in the womb of a virgin’’ .

Also the words of God can mean simply his revelations, the Torah , Gospels Quran etc.

In regards to the spirit, Allah has blown his spirit into Adam so he became alive from clay. The angels also has Gods spirit in them , and based on their assigned tasks they use it accordingly. So for example according to Islam , The Angel Gabriel blew into Mary Gods spirit to begin the creation of Jesus in her womb. This Happens to all humans , but Mary received the Angel himself and appeared to her for her position as a great believer .

More or less this is how these two words are used in Islam . Hope that helped clarify

 

[meedo]

Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. The Jewish faith was God enacting a covenant with His people, that He would send a messiah to save them. Jesus is the Messiah, and He is also God. God Himself made Himself man, so that He could offer Himself up for our sins, and reconcile mankind to God.

As to reading the Bible, the best way is to start with the New Testament, and specifically the four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke , and John. If you start from the beginning with Genesis, you will get bogged down in the minutia of the ritual laws and ceremonial prescriptions for the Old Covenant in the books of Leviticus and Numbers. I would start with the New Testament first, and then begin the Old Testament.

Hello zz912,

Thank you for your clarification above.

I think my question was why do we need Christianity? and what does it bring that the pre christianity Jews and other God believers (e.g Ishmael and his descendants in arabia ) missed?

Thank you for your advice on The Bible reading… i wanna do it and read it all one time. Hopefully i can get the time to do that .

 

[Augustine3]

Hello Augustine,

Yeah , i am trying to tweak my understanding now , i want to get out of this thread with a clear understanding of the definition of the trinity.

In Islam God is knowable to the extent he wants us to know about him. Of course he isn’t knowable to the extent that humans seen him walk this earth like Christianity. But otherwise i don’t see any difference. He is compassionate , forgiving, loving, sad for our sins , angry at our injustices . Vengeful against the abusers and most importantly … he gives every body chances …many of them.

I am curious to know in what way God is knowable in Christianity. ( Apart from the fact that he incarnated and walked this earth as a human)

Thanks for your patience my friend,

Hi Meedo,

Everything that God wanted us to know about him has been revealed through his Son. I may use some language that you’re probably not accustomed to. God, the holy Trinity is a living, self donating family. The Father eternally pours out his love to his Son. The Son receives the love and reciprocates it back to the Father. This constant exchange of love between the Father and the Son is so real that it is in fact it is a person, i.e. the Holy Spirit that unites the Father and the Son together.

This is what we mean on one of the ways we are created in God’s image. The Husband pours out his love to his wife. The wife receives this love and reciprocates it back to her husband. This exchange of love is so real that in 9 months time you have to give this love a human name (a little cute baby).

A family is made up of persons but it remains one family. God is three persons of one substance, nevertheless he is still one God. The human family is an imperfect icon of the holy Trinity but it is one of many ways we are made in the image of God.

God bless you brother (I call you brother because we share the same Abrahamic faith).

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hello Gary ,

The word has many meanings. But for example Jesus is considered the word of God because he was created unnaturally through a direct ‘‘word’’ from God. In this instance’’ it is the word ‘’ Be’’ … as in … ‘‘Be a child without a father in the womb of a virgin’’ .

Also the words of God can mean simply his revelations, the Torah , Gospels Quran etc.

In regards to the spirit, Allah has blown his spirit into Adam so he became alive from clay. The angels also has Gods spirit in them , and based on their assigned tasks they use it accordingly. So for example according to Islam , The Angel Gabriel blew into Mary Gods spirit to begin the creation of Jesus in her womb. This Happens to all humans , but Mary received the Angel himself and appeared to her for her position as a great believer .

More or less this is how these two words are used in Islam . Hope that helped clarify

Hello meedo

Good to see you stopping by. And Thank-You for the clarification.

 

[Love4All]

Hello zz912,

Thank you for your clarification above.

I think my question was why do we need Christianity? and what does it bring that the pre christianity Jews and other God believers (e.g Ishmael and his descendants in arabia ) missed?

Thank you for your advice on The Bible reading… i wanna do it and read it all one time. Hopefully i can get the time to do that .

Hi Meedo, If I may, I’d like to try to answer this, myself. I will answer from two differing perspectives, one, merely Christian, like many of our Protestant friends here, as well as Mormons, jehovah’s Witnesses, etc., and the second, distinctively Catholic.

From the merely Christian perspective, Jesus died on the Cross as a propitiatory Sacrifice for our sins. Ancient Judaism had its system of sacrifices of animals, to repair for sin, but they could never take away sin. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the World.

You are no doubt aware that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and presumably yes, Ishmael, all made sacrifices to God for their sins. What sacrifices did Muhammad prescribe for his followers, and what sacrifices do modern day Islamists carry out in reparation for sin?

From the distinctively Catholic perspective, not only is Jesus the Lamb of God, but also, we can eat that Lamb. We can eat the Flesh of the Lamb of God. We can eat the Flesh of Jesus Christ. Since He was perfectly pleasing to His Father (Jesus consistently and constantly called God “his Father.”), in giving us His Body and Blood for our food and drink, He is able to infuse us with grace, which is the power and the will to please God the Father.

If Allah is God the Father, it is no contradiction to say that Jesus is not Allah, since the Son is not the Father. Also, if the Qur’an says, “Allah forbid that He Himself should beget a son,” this can be interpreted to mean sexually, in other words God would never rape Mary or take her in any way away from her husband Joseph. Allah forbid that He Himself should sexually beget a human child! But there is a difference between sexual generation, which is the normal course of human life, and the generation by which Allah eternally begets His Word.

It is in the Word that we can know God at all. Without the Word, there is no knowledge of God whatsoever. The Word IS the knowledge of the Father (Allah). Since Allah’s own knowledge of Himself cannot in any way be inferior to He Himself, consequently it is said that “the Word was with God, and the Word was God; the same was in the beginning with God; and through Him, all things were made.” So there is God, and there is God’s Knowledge of Himself, and the two are one, but distinct. This distinction is not a distinction of separation, but at the same time we cannot say that God and God’s Knowledge of Himself are the same. So we call God’s Knowledge of Himself the Word, and we recognize that the entirety of revelation is only possible in the Word. It is only possible for us to know anything at all of God, if He reveals to us some things He knows about Himself, i.e. some things that are contained in and come from the Word. All of revelation is in the Word.

So what Christianity has, that Judaism and Islam do not have, is the Word Himself, Incarnate in Jesus Christ. It is not that the Father, Allah, has incarnated Himself. It is, rather, that He has incarnated His Word. Just as He sent His Word to all His Prophets, so He sent His Word to the Queen of Prophets, Mary, to become her Son.

You say that God spoke the word, “Be!” and Jesus was. We say that Jesus IS the Word. To say that the word is “Be” is to deny all the written Scriptures including the Qur’an! The word is a lot more than just, “Be.” Although, the word “Be” means, to exist, and it is also true that God said His Name is “I am who am.” So it is close to the truth to say that God said, “Be” and Jesus came to be. God also said to the Light, “Be,” and the Light came to be. If you say that the creative Word is “Be,” then to a Christian you are saying that “Be” is a Name of Jesus, because Jesus IS the creative Word.

So it seems that if you deny that Jesus is the Word, you are separating the Word from God. The Word spoken by the archangel Saint Gabriel to Mary was not, “Be,” but, “you shall conceive and bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus.” Mary it was, who said to the angel, “Let it Be!” Jesus is the Original Creative Word of God. You could say, perhaps, that Jesus is Allah speaking the word, “Be!” But it is not limited to His taking flesh of the Virgin, but the entirety of Creation.

So what Christianity has, that the other religions do not have, is the fullness of the revelation of the Father, in the Word made Flesh, Jesus. Because of this, the Christians also have the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity, the Love that is between Allah and Allah’s Word — Allah’s Spirit. The Holy Spirit testifies to the Truth of Jesus as the Word. In the Holy Spirit, one says, “Jesus is Lord.” Without the Holy Spirit, one cannot say this. And whoever possesses the Son and the Spirit possesses also the Father, and one who denies the Spirit and the Son, how can he say he acknowledges the Father?

 

[meedo]

God bless you brother (I call you brother because we share the same Abrahamic faith).

I would love that my brother God bless you and your loves ones .

 

[Shamati]

Hello Augustine,

Yeah , i am trying to tweak my understanding now , i want to get out of this thread with a clear understanding of the definition of the trinity.

In Islam God is knowable to the extent he wants us to know about him. Of course he isn’t knowable to the extent that humans seen him walk this earth like Christianity. But otherwise i don’t see any difference. He is compassionate , forgiving, loving, sad for our sins , angry at our injustices . Vengeful against the abusers and most importantly … he gives every body chances …many of them.

I am curious to know in what way God is knowable in Christianity. ( Apart from the fact that he incarnated and walked this earth as a human)

Thanks for your patience my friend,

In christianity you can come to knowledge of God. In fact YOU can become God. That is United with him. “for God became Man so that man may become God” says the New testament. We can, while alive become deified and have a divine aspect. This is what happened to the saints. The goal of christianity is this: that we may dwell in the love of the Triune God forever.
Saying that God is One presupposes a bkowledge of Fods essence and oneness. Saying that God is three presupposes that we know the exact amount. Mankind can know 3 aspekts of. god in this life on earth. To say that God is One and almighty unity in Three persons is therefore a more humble stance to take as a human because it rightfully acknowledges that we do not have capacity to grasp HOW God can be One because God is beyond Human definition. To say he is one is to with human language bring him down to our level, even though we know there is but One God. But the words of men cant express the unity of God. So the christians say he is One God in three persons of the same essence in perfect unity. This establishes that we acknowledge our own logical inabilities to explain the essence of God because while it states he is one, it professes more than One.
This comes from Christ himself & this theology is very popular in orthodoxy where all statements about God must be witha negative and a positive one ie. "God is everywhere (positive) but we know not everywhere where He exists (negative). To acknowledge a truth but at the same time in our humility acknowledge that wedding know anything.

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin,

Really thanks for helping me tweak this. So i wil try to rephrase

Christians believe that God is one… consists of 3 persons …These 3 persons are distinct . They don’t morph from one to the other. They are separate and have always been separate and has always been there as separate persons . Thus , they are not created from each other … but they have all been there together, with each other ,before creation as three persons. They are of the same divine substance . More like 3triangles in the same bigger triangle ( one divinity).

Did i get it right?

Have i understood it correct?

Let me say using the Triangle analogy is not Holy enough. It is best to use the analogy of Love because Love comes from God.

Let me say that your patience in understanding the Christian God (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) revealed to us by God’s Only Son is very much appreciated. Especially as a Muslim looking in. Can’t imagine how hard it must be to make sense of all this.

Now,I think you are indeed getting closer. However, by saying the word “separate” I think you will not be opened to the Christian belief in One God. There is no separation in the way the human mind thinks of the meaning. Because the Persons of God are** united**. So I can explain it as " if one says united there is no separation".

Keep in mind also Meedo that the word “Person” was originally not meant for the human being. The Trinity’s “persons” comes from the explanation of God after he revealed Himself through his Son. The word person is infact a Catholic formula (to explain) the One True God thus the word Trinity. Actually called the Holy Trinity.

So, although united in purpose, they are separate personalities thus the distinctness.

Therefore, It is a mutual self giving Love between the Three Persons. And what does that mean you may ask?

Kindly read:

The Most Holy Trinity: a Union of Love

It is said that a people’s values can** be seen in the god they worship**. For Christians, ``God is love’’ (1 Jn 4:8). But a God who is love seems like a philosophical impossibility. How can one God, who is perfect, lacking nothing in himself and possessed of no dependence on creatures, be love when love necessitates a relation to another?

The resolution of this paradox God himself has revealed to us: **God is perfect unity, but a unity of three Divine Persons-- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-- **who are each equally divine.

The Father, Son, and Spirit exist from all eternity. None precedes the other in time, but each are related to the others by a relationship that orders them with respect to the others.

The ever-living, all-knowing, almighty God the Father exists from all eternity and is the source of all perfection created and uncreated. The self-conception and self-expression of the perfect Being is so complete that it is another person: **

God the Son,** the image of the invisible Father, ``the only-begotten Son of God, begotten from the Father before all the ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father, through whom all things came to be’’ (Nicene-Constantipolitan Creed).

The love between the Father and the Son is so perfect that it too is another person: **the Holy Spirit **``the holy, the lordly and life-giving one, proceeding forth from the Father [and the Son], co-worshipped and co-glorified with Father and Son’’ (ibid.).

But if the Holy Spirit is the love between the Father and the Son, how can God as a whole be called Love? Each person shares equally in the divine nature, so that each person shares equally in the perfections of the others. The only distinction between the persons of the Trinity is their mutual relations. None of the persons exists in respect to himself alone, but each exists relatively to the other two:

…the ``three persons’’ who exist in God are the reality of word and love in their attachment to each other. They are not substances, personalities in the modern sense, but the relatedness whose pure actuality… does not impair unity of the highest being but fills it out. St Augustine (4th century Church Father) once enshrined this idea in the following formula:

``He is not called Father with reference to himself but only in relation to the Son; seen by himself he is simply God.’’

Here the decisive point comes beautifully to light. **Father’’ is purely a concept of relationship. Only in being-for the other is he Father; in his own being-in-himself he is simply God. Person is the pure relation of being related, nothing else. Relationship is not something extra added to the person, as it is with us**; it only exists at all as relatedness.

…the First Person [the Father] does not beget the Son in the sense of the act of begetting coming on top of the finished Person;** it is the act of begetting, of giving oneself, of streaming forth.** It is identical with the act of giving. (Joseph Ratzinger Introduction to Christianity, pp. 131-132; cf. Augustine, Enarationes in Psalmos 68; De Trinitate VII, 1, 2.)

Each of the persons of the Trinity lives completely for the others; each is a complete gift of self to the others. The complete self-giving not only constitutes the individual persons of the Trinity, but also their inseparable oneness.

Thus, for Christians the very basis of all reality is the loving communion of persons that is the Holy Trinity.

Source:columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/unique2.html

Dear Meedo, I hope it is slowly coming into focus.

Peace be with you.

MJ

 

[Ontheway]

In christianity you can come to knowledge of God. In fact YOU can become God.

This is not a Christian belief, but an interpretation that is very far from any religion.
Man is surely not God, although there are some who may think they are.

 

[Shamati]

This is not a Christian belief, but an interpretation that is very far from any religion.
Man is surely not God, although there are some who may think they are.

Irenaeus (c. 130-200)
“[T]he Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”[Primary 1]
“'For we cast blame upon [God], because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; although God has adopted this course out of His pure benevolence, that no one may impute to Him invidiousness or grudgingness.”[Primary 2]
“For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God.”[Primary 2]
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215)
“[T]he Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God.”[Primary 3]
“For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God”[Primary 4]
“[H]is is beauty, the true beauty, for it is God; and that man becomes God, since God so wills. Heraclitus, then, rightly said, “Men are gods, and gods are men.” For the Word Himself is the manifest mystery: God in man, and man God”[Primary 4]
“[H]e who listens to the Lord, and follows the prophecy given by Him, will be formed perfectly in the likeness of the teacher—made a god going about in flesh.”[Primary 5]
Justin Martyr (c. 100-165)
“[Men] were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming “gods,” and of having power to become sons of the Highest.”[Primary 6]
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373)
“Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us”[Primary 7]
“for as the Lord, putting on the body, became man, so we men are deified by the Word as being taken to Him through His flesh.”[Primary 8]
“For He was made man that we might be made God.”[Primary 9]
Augustine of Hippo (c. 354-430)
“‘For He hath given them power to become the sons of God.’[John 1:12] If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”[Primary 10]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”[Primary 11]

Mystical union with God is the goal of christianity- called divinization in the west and theosis in the east.

 

[MartinJordan]

Guys lets keep this thread according to the subject matter of the OP.

MJ

 

[meedo]

Hello Martin,

First i would like to thank you for putting the time to explain to me. Really.

May be i should not emphasise the word separate . I would probably keep the triangle example in my definition because it is a bit easy to understand.

So here it goes ,

Christians believe that God is one… consists of 3 persons …These 3 persons are distinct . They don’t morph from one to the other. Thus , they are not created from each other … but they have all been there together, with each other ,before creation as three distinct persons. They are of the same divine substance . More like 3 triangles in the same bigger triangle ( one divinity). So they have a unity of purpose and divinity while being distinct. They are together in a loving unity but distinctness.

How did i do this time ?

Peace be with you my friend

 

[Ontheway]

Irenaeus (c. 130-200)
“[T]he Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, who did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be even what He is Himself.”[Primary 1]
“'For we cast blame upon [God], because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods; although God has adopted this course out of His pure benevolence, that no one may impute to Him invidiousness or grudgingness.”[Primary 2]
“For it was necessary, at first, that nature should be exhibited; then, after that, that what was mortal should be conquered and swallowed up by immortality, and the corruptible by incorruptibility, and that man should be made after the image and likeness of God.”[Primary 2]
Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215)
“[T]he Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God.”[Primary 3]
“For if one knows himself, he will know God; and knowing God, he will be made like God”[Primary 4]
“[H]is is beauty, the true beauty, for it is God; and that man becomes God, since God so wills. Heraclitus, then, rightly said, “Men are gods, and gods are men.” For the Word Himself is the manifest mystery: God in man, and man God”[Primary 4]
“[H]e who listens to the Lord, and follows the prophecy given by Him, will be formed perfectly in the likeness of the teacher—made a god going about in flesh.”[Primary 5]
Justin Martyr (c. 100-165)
“[Men] were made like God, free from suffering and death, provided that they kept His commandments, and were deemed deserving of the name of His sons, and yet they, becoming like Adam and Eve, work out death for themselves; let the interpretation of the Psalm be held just as you wish, yet thereby it is demonstrated that all men are deemed worthy of becoming “gods,” and of having power to become sons of the Highest.”[Primary 6]
Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373)
“Therefore He was not man, and then became God, but He was God, and then became man, and that to deify us”[Primary 7]
“for as the Lord, putting on the body, became man, so we men are deified by the Word as being taken to Him through His flesh.”[Primary 8]
“For He was made man that we might be made God.”[Primary 9]
Augustine of Hippo (c. 354-430)
“‘For He hath given them power to become the sons of God.’[John 1:12] If we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”[Primary 10]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”: “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”[Primary 11]

Mystical union with God is the goal of christianity- called divinization in the west and theosis in the east.

All seriousness aside now. You will let us know how soon we should start praying to you?
How about temples? How many do you require? And then you will be the 4th member of the now divine quadrangle?

On a more serious note, you are right. We all aspire to “partake in the divine nature”. This, however, does not make us GOD!

 

[zz912]

Hello zz912,

Thank you for your clarification above.

I think my question was why do we need Christianity? and what does it bring that the pre christianity Jews and other God believers (e.g Ishmael and his descendants in arabia ) missed?

Thank you for your advice on The Bible reading… i wanna do it and read it all one time. Hopefully i can get the time to do that .

On reading the Bible, remember that it is not one book, but 73 different books/letters/poems/etc. They each have a different tone, background, message, intended audience, and style. I would suggest getting a study bible (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible by Scott Hahn is my favorite) which includes introductory explanations of each book.

As to what the Jews and other believers are missing, they are missing the Fullness of Truth. They are missing the relationship that God wants with us. They are missing the New Covenant that He created for us. A covenant is how a person becomes a member of a family. We become part of the family of God. We become the Body of God.