Islam and the Virgin Birth of Jesus

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Many have already answered your question. You simply refuse to take the answer at face value because that is not what you wish to read. On the other hand, you and your mates have simply skipped questions raised by several people of this forum.
**No. Ralphinal had defined it before too. But nobody else. Ralph has defined it again. I agree to his definition about the virgin Mary. But no more. I do not agree that any ghost or holy spirit or God came and made Mary pregnant.

If christians demand that then it would be another difficult subject like Trinity and man-God. I do not believe as per bible that any angel visited the carpentar Joseph. And Joseph kept all that to himself all his life. Why? Did the angel tell Joseph not to tell any one? It all seems to be made up story to suit the special birth of Jesus. There was nothing special in the birth only as it is being taught.

There were other many special things beside the birth of Jesus that were more important and Quran discussed those things if any one will try to see those verses.**
 
**No. Ralphinal had defined it before too. But nobody else. Ralph has defined it again. I agree to his definition about the virgin Mary. But no more. I do not agree that any ghost or holy spirit or God came and made Mary pregnant.

If christians demand that then it would be another difficult subject like Trinity and man-God. I do not believe as per bible that any angel visited the carpentar Joseph. And Joseph kept all that to himself all his life. Why? Did the angel tell Joseph not to tell any one? It all seems to be made up story to suit the special birth of Jesus. There was nothing special in the birth only as it is being taught.

There were other many special things beside the birth of Jesus that were more important and Quran discussed those things if any one will try to see those verses.**
Since we Christians want to know how ISLAM defines Panaghia’s virginity, there is no use in your trying to gain time and evade the issue by asking us Christians how we define the notion of virginity.
 
**No. Ralphinal had defined it before too. But nobody else. Ralph has defined it again. I agree to his definition about the virgin Mary. But no more. I do not agree that any ghost or holy spirit or God came and made Mary pregnant.

If christians demand that then it would be another difficult subject like Trinity and man-God. I do not believe as per bible that any angel visited the carpentar Joseph. And Joseph kept all that to himself all his life. Why? Did the angel tell Joseph not to tell any one? It all seems to be made up story to suit the special birth of Jesus. There was nothing special in the birth only as it is being taught.

There were other many special things beside the birth of Jesus that were more important and Quran discussed those things if any one will try to see those verses.**
Dear planten, ralphinal’s definition of the ever perpetual virginity of Mary is the same as Catholics the world over, nevermind this forum. As i said, no matter what our definition, you will only accept what you wish to read. Therein lies the problem.

If you do not open your heart and mind, nothing will ever be absorbed and your stubbornness will only further block what you do not wish to read from the horse’s mouth. Islam defined many of Christianity’s dogma and doctrine falsely in the Qur’an. Now, i’m sure you had a reason to join CAF in the first place. And i’m sure one of those reasons was to learn more about the faith - directly from the ones who practice it. We have already spoken. It’s up to you to believe what we say. For God is on our side.
 
Dear planten, ralphinal’s definition of the ever perpetual virginity of Mary is the same as Catholics the world over, nevermind this forum. As i said, no matter what our definition, you will only accept what you wish to read. Therein lies the problem.

If you do not open your heart and mind, nothing will ever be absorbed and your stubbornness will only further block what you do not wish to read from the horse’s mouth. Islam defined many of Christianity’s dogma and doctrine falsely in the Qur’an. Now, i’m sure you had a reason to join CAF in the first place. And i’m sure one of those reasons was to learn more about the faith - directly from the ones who practice it. We have already spoken. It’s up to you to believe what we say. For God is on our side.
According to what Planten has already stated, the Islamic definition of “virgin birth” is poles apart from our belief! :cool:

Vickie
 
I do not agree that any ghost or holy spirit or God came and made Mary pregnant.
Do you say this because you hold that God, or the Holy Spirit, had physical sex with her?

Do you hold this because you worship a weak and inferior god who cannot create anything?
If christians demand that then it would be another difficult subject like Trinity and man-God. I do not believe as per bible that any angel visited the carpentar Joseph. And Joseph kept all that to himself all his life. Why? Did the angel tell Joseph not to tell any one? It all seems to be made up story to suit the special birth of Jesus. There was nothing special in the birth only as it is being taught.
Why do you not believe that an angel visited Joseph? Is it because the angel did not physically assalt him as it did Muhammed? Is it beccause the angel visited him in a dream? Who said Joseph never told anyone? He would have told Mary and Jesus.

How many humans have been born of a virgin?
There were other many special things beside the birth of Jesus that were more important and Quran discussed those things if any one will try to see those verses.
Are those the verses that call Jesus a lier? That say he was not crucified and did not die? Or are they the verses that have a baby Jesus talking about how is mother is still a virgin?

You can accept a newborn can talk by a miracle but not that a virgin can be made pregnant by a miracle? Or that Jesus, Truly God and Truly Man, could suffer, die, and rise again?
 
Do you say this because you hold that God, or the Holy Spirit, had physical sex with her?
No I do not believe that God had any sex with Mary. You have no knowledge of Muslims point of view. they all respect Mary and believe that she was virgin.
Do you hold this because you worship a weak and inferior god who cannot create anything?
Meaningless question.
Why do you not believe that an angel visited Joseph? Is it because the angel did not physically assalt him as it did Muhammed? Is it beccause the angel visited him in a dream?
I do not believe that angel visited Joseph because christians do not believe that angel came to Muhammad.
Who said Joseph never told anyone? He would have told Mary and Jesus.
That is a supposition. Please bring from the bible that Joseph told any one that Mary was pregnant by the holy ghost.
How many humans have been born of a virgin?
That again is for you to decide. the problem is about being virgin. What you understand is different to my understanding. So no reply can be given. As I believe there are many virgins and they give birth after marriage.
  1. Are those the verses that call Jesus a lier? 2. That say he was not crucified and did not die? 3. Or are they the verses that have a baby Jesus talking about how is mother is still a virgin?
1. No. 2. No. 3. No. They are special verses, special news about the grant of a son to Mary and the rest of things youcan read in the Quran. I need not teach you those good things which you know nothing about.
You can accept a newborn can talk by a miracle but not that a virgin can be made pregnant by a miracle? Or that Jesus, Truly God and Truly Man, could suffer, die, and rise again?
You say it. Means I do not say it.
 
No I do not believe that God had any sex with Mary. You have no knowledge of Muslims point of view. they all respect Mary and believe that she was virgin.
The Qur’an does seem to suggest that Christians believe the Sonship of Jesus means God had carnal relations with a woman, and to that we join you in saying subhanallah! This is what the Qur’an says:

“The Originator of the heavens and the earth! How can He have a child, when there is for Him no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?”

Quran 6:101

Ibn Kathir
comments on this aya:
“for the child is the offspring of two compatible spouses. Allah does not have an equal, none of His creatures are similar to Him, for He alone created the entire creation.”
From: tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=6&tid=16219

In other words, how can God make a child with a human? I think first of all we have to understand that Jesus is not a Son like I am the son of my father. In other words, the generation of my person can’t be likened to the generation of Jesus, just like not all species on earth share the same generation.

The best analogy for the generation within God would be to look into the greatest creation of God: man, who was created in His image. The generation of a human involves the physical union between two spouses, but the generation of the Son is more closely related to the generation of a Word or Idea from the Intellect. For your mind to generate an idea no association was required and therefore no consort was required for the Son. In this case, the Idea is of God Himself. Humans are imperfect and limited and so even our own understanding of ourselves is limited, but God’s understanding of Himself is perfect and so the Idea or Image of Himself is exactly like Himself. The only way we can differentiate the two is by knowing that one is the Font (the Father), and the other is Word proceeding from the Font (the Son).

So in summary, Jesus’ Divinity is from the Father while His humanity is from Mary. His Sonship does not depend or require the existence of a spouse because His generation is not like human generation.
That again is for you to decide. the problem is about being virgin. What you understand is different to my understanding. So no reply can be given. As I believe there are many virgins and they give birth after marriage.
Mary was a virgin before the conception, during the conception, and after the birth of Christ. This means she never knew man sexually nor did she ever experience the pains of child birth. The conception and birth of Christ were entirely miraculous. The same way light passes through a window did the Holy Spirit enter her womb and fashion the flesh of Christ. Likewise, without going into detail, His birth was not ordinary but miraculous.

Hope this helps,

God bless,
Tomasz
 
Mary was a virgin before the conception, during the conception, and after the birth of Christ. This means she never knew man sexually nor did she ever experience the pains of child birth. The conception and birth of Christ were entirely miraculous. The same way light passes through a window did the Holy Spirit enter her womb and fashion the flesh of Christ. Likewise, without going into detail, His birth was not ordinary but miraculous.
Hope this helps,
God bless,
Tomasz
Those are your mere good wishes for Mary. You would like to suppose things to be like that. But we may not believe you. What you have written is not all true, only partly true.
 
ﻳﻮﺣﻨﺎ 3:16
16 لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ.
 
ﻳﻮﺣﻨﺎ 3:16
16 لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ.
DLC, post is not understood please. Try again. Thanks.
 
No I do not believe that God had any sex with Mary. You have no knowledge of Muslims point of view. they all respect Mary and believe that she was virgin.

Meaningless question.

I do not believe that angel visited Joseph because christians do not believe that angel came to Muhammad.

That is a supposition. Please bring from the bible that Joseph told any one that Mary was pregnant by the holy ghost
.

That again is for you to decide. the problem is about being virgin. What you understand is different to my understanding. So no reply can be given. As I believe there are many virgins and they give birth after marriage.

1. No. 2. No. 3. No. They are special verses, special news about the grant of a son to Mary and the rest of things youcan read in the Quran. I need not teach you those good things which you know nothing about.

You say it. Means I do not say it.
And where do you get your idea about Mary (Mariam)? The part of your Quran about Mariam is almost a direct copy of Pseudo-Matthew, an apocript “bible” written around 300 AD’s.
 
It is John 3:16 from the Holy Bible in Arabic. “For God so loved the world that he sent his Only Begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him will not parish, but have eternal life.”
 
ﻳﻮﺣﻨﺎ 1
1 فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ، وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللهِ. وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ هُوَ اللهُ .
2 هُوَ كَانَ فِي الْبَدْءِ عِنْدَ اللهِ.
3 بِهِ تَكَوَّنَ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ، وَبِغَيْرِهِ لَمْ يَتَكَوَّنْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ مِمَّا تَكَوَّنَ.

14 وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ بَشَراً، وَخَيَّمَ بَيْنَنَا، وَنَحْنُ رَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ، مَجْدَ ابْنٍ وَحِيدٍ عِنْدَ الآبِ، وَهُوَ مُمْتَلِىءٌ بِالنِّعْمَةِ وَالْحَقِّ.
 
Those are your mere good wishes for Mary. You would like to suppose things to be like that. But we may not believe you. What you have written is not all true, only partly true.
What is not true and why?
 
John 1:14-20
ﻳﻮﺣﻨﺎ 1:14-20
14 وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ بَشَراً، وَخَيَّمَ بَيْنَنَا، وَنَحْنُ رَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ، مَجْدَ ابْنٍ وَحِيدٍ عِنْدَ الآبِ، وَهُوَ مُمْتَلِىءٌ بِالنِّعْمَةِ وَالْحَقِّ.
15 شَهِدَ لَهُ يُوحَنَّا فَهَتَفَ قَائِلاً: «هَذَا هُوَ الَّذِي قُلْتُ عَنْهُ: إِنَّ الآتِيَ بَعْدِي مُتَقَدِّمٌ عَلَيَّ، لأَنَّهُ كَانَ قَبْلَ أَنْ أُوْجَدَ».
16 فَمِنِ امْتِلاَئِهِ أَخَذْنَا جَمِيعُنَا وَنِلْنَا نِعْمَةً عَلَى نِعْمَةٍ،
17 لأَنَّ الشَّرِيعَةَ أُعْطِيَتْ عَلَى يَدِ مُوسَى، أَمَّا النِّعْمَةُ وَالْحَقُّ فَقَدْ تَوَاجَدَا بِيَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ.
18 مَا مِنْ أَحَدٍ رَأَى اللهَ قَطُّ. وَلَكِنَّ الابْنَ الْوَحِيدَ، الَّذِي فِي حِضْنِ الآبِ، هُوَ الَّذِي كَشَفَ عَنْهُ.
19 وَهَذِهِ شَهَادَةُ يُوحَنَّا حِينَ أَرْسَلَ الْيَهُودُ مِنْ أُورُشَلِيمَ بَعْضَ الْكَهَنَةِ وَاللاَّوِيِّينَ يَسْأَلُونَهُ: «مَنْ أَنْتْ؟»
20 فَاعْتَرَفَ وَلَمْ يُنْكِرْ، بَلْ أَكَّدَ قَائِلاً: «لَسْتُ أَنَا الْمَسِيحَ».
 
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