Islam As a Pagan Religion

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dessert said:
So Karen put that in your cookies

Catholic is not polytheism!
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Excuse me? Is this part of some other conversation I missed? Put what in my “cookies,” exactly? At minimum, I don’t recall saying that I believed Catholicism was polytheistic. I’m afraid you are going to need to clarify your post a bit for me.
 
Mirdath said:
According to the Vatican, they worship the same God the Catholics do. Islam isn’t a pagan religion – not that paganism is, as you assume, a necessarily bad thing.
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Technically, Islam is an ‘Infidel’ religion. One that knows the One, True God, but worships Him in a false way.

A ‘Pagan’ religion is a polytheistic religion

and a ‘Heathen’ is anyone who does not know the One, True God

( ‘pagan’ is a sub-category of ‘heathen’)
 
There is no civil war in kingdom of Saudi Arabia. However, the country is Sunni with a Shia minority especially on the Eastern Province. Generally, the Eastern Province is more relaxed than Riyadh or Western Providence. The Saudis do discriminate against the Shia minority. Low paying jobs go to these people i.e. government and military.

And yes, Muslims treat everyone the same. We’re all Muslims and we’re a religion of peace and oneness. 😉
dessert said:
So are they in a civil war and have they (violent muslims) I don’t know the name, I am just reading about all this , bringing this civil war to us. ie WTC
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BelFarfalla said:
I’m curious, is there some significance to you that he had a daughter named Fatimah?
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I was just reading about it in the ency and wandered about the leniage and if they have traced it further since. More than likely not I assume. I have to go to work see you later don’t haave time to answer others right now.
Dessert
 
KarenNC said:
Excuse me? Is this part of some other conversation I missed? Put what in my “cookies,” exactly? At minimum, I don’t recall saying that I believed Catholicism was polytheistic. I’m afraid you are going to need to clarify your post a bit for me.
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Sorry this is so late getting back to you I have been a bit stressed lately probably comes across in my posts, I bet you have days like that. 🙂

Sorry Karen I thought I recalled one time you did as I thought you had said because we believe in the trinity as 3 gods in one but it is three persons in one God.

Here is a good site for reading about Judaism and Catholic
www.secondexodus.com

Second Exodus(book) by Martin Barrack a convert from Judaism.
Associates of Hebrew Catholics AHC

Radical Transformation Towards Christ (is on the site)

You can actually write to Marty and get answers:thumbsup:

Bless you! Dessert
 
**Sorry this is so late getting back to you I have been a bit stressed lately probably comes across in my posts, I bet you have days like that. 🙂 **

Definitely do.

Sorry Karen I thought I recalled one time you did as I thought you had said because we believe in the trinity as 3 gods in one but it is three persons in one God.

No, I fully understand that Catholics are monotheistic. You may be recalling that I have indeed stated in other threads that I am not convinced based on the evidence of their teachings that Jews, Christians and Muslims are indeed worshipping the same God nor do I accept monotheism as an adequate or accurate explanation of the spiritual reality I have encountered. I will admit that I consider the doctrine of the Trinity to be needlessly complex and convoluted, as well as incorrect. This shouldn’t be surprising. If I believed the teachings of Christianity, or the Catholic Church in particular, that is where I would be. 🙂

**Here is a good site for reading about Judaism and Catholic
www.secondexodus.com

Second Exodus(book) by Martin Barrack a convert from Judaism.
Associates of Hebrew Catholics AHC

Radical Transformation Towards Christ (is on the site) **

I am sure Mr. Barrack can give very good info on why he chose to convert and a glowing report of the Catholic Church, but I would have to give a great deal of weight to the fact that he is a convert when looking at his info on Judaism. The same kind of consideration I would give to information on the teachings of Catholicism presented by someone who had converted to Protestant Christianity, Islam or a Neopagan religion. It has been my experience that converts understandings of the teachings of their former religion tend overall to differ fairly widely from those who remained in the religion (take mine for example 🙂 ). Consider the attitude evidenced here on this forum toward former Catholics and whether their picture of Catholicism is considered accurate.
 
KarenNC said:
**Sorry this is so late getting back to you I have been a bit stressed lately probably comes across in my posts, I bet you have days like that. 🙂 **

Definitely do.

Sorry Karen I thought I recalled one time you did as I thought you had said because we believe in the trinity as 3 gods in one but it is three persons in one God.

No, I fully understand that Catholics are monotheistic. You may be recalling that I have indeed stated in other threads that I am not convinced based on the evidence of their teachings that Jews, Christians and Muslims are indeed worshipping the same God nor do I accept monotheism as an adequate or accurate explanation of the spiritual reality I have encountered. I will admit that I consider the doctrine of the Trinity to be needlessly complex and convoluted, as well as incorrect. This shouldn’t be surprising. If I believed the teachings of Christianity, or the Catholic Church in particular, that is where I would be. 🙂

Here is a good site for reading about Judaism and Catholic
www.secondexodus.com

Second Exodus(book) by Martin Barrack a convert from Judaism.
Associates of Hebrew Catholics AHC

Radical Transformation Towards Christ (is on the site)

I am sure Mr. Barrack can give very good info on why he chose to convert and a glowing report of the Catholic Church, but I would have to give a great deal of weight to the fact that he is a convert when looking at his info on Judaism. The same kind of consideration I would give to information on the teachings of Catholicism presented by someone who had converted to Protestant Christianity, Islam or a Neopagan religion. It has been my experience that converts understandings of the teachings of their former religion tend overall to differ fairly widely from those who remained in the religion (take mine for example 🙂 ). Consider the attitude evidenced here on this forum toward former Catholics and whether their picture of Catholicism is considered accurate.
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I still encourage you to check it out but he doesn’t really want to argue as you say if you have read all of it maybe you aren’t interested but I just sent an e-mail and got an answer from him right away. Unless it was his staff.

There is also a note on St. Edith Stein ( a 20th century saint) who by the way is going to have a statue of her( the bust of the head I think) placed in the
Wahalla Temple in Regensburg, Bavaria, Germany in 2008
Vahalla of Norse Mythology
according to the wiki
wiki pedia .org Edith Stein .com
My guess is that Pope Benedict XVI helped this along and this is interesting reading too.

So all these philosophers got their heads togehter at last:D
😛 couldn’t resist that as I am only just learning some about philosophy:D

Dessert
 
KarenNC said:
No, I fully understand that Catholics are monotheistic. You may be recalling that I have indeed stated in other threads that I am not convinced based on the evidence of their teachings that Jews, Christians and Muslims are indeed worshipping the same God **I’m not sure ither just know as a Catholic I’m praying to the one I believe in, but God created us all

**nor do I accept monotheism as an adequate or accurate explanation of the spiritual reality I have encountered.
**Well I suppose you ahve to first aknowledge you were created for a purpose by the supreme being.

**
I will admit that I consider the doctrine of the Trinity to be needlessly complex and convoluted, as well as incorrect.
**There are many christians who don’t really accept it . But for me it is more than a doctrine and isn’t quite as complex as I used to think.
**
This shouldn’t be surprising. If I believed the teachings of Christianity, or the Catholic Church in particular, that is where I would be. 🙂

I am sure Mr. Barrack can give very good info on why he chose to convert and a glowing report of the Catholic Church, but I would have to give a great deal of weight to the fact that he is a convert when looking at his info on Judaism. The same kind of consideration I would give to information on the teachings of Catholicism presented by someone who had converted to Protestant Christianity, Islam or a Neopagan religion. It has been my experience that converts understandings of the teachings of their former religion tend overall to differ fairly widely from those who remained in the religion (take mine for example 🙂 ).
**If someone has converted to another religon they probaly didn’t understand the total truths in the former but I agree that things have changed but not the basics. I am dealing with this situation with my mother as she has been remained in the CCC and she cannot accept some just ordinary changes but basic to each parish and as she is ridgid because she can’t excuse other peoples actions because never experienced the life changing happenings that they have in their lives. **
Consider the attitude evidenced here on this forum toward former Catholics and whether their (picture of CC ) is considered accurate.
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**
The posters views and attitudes are also the result more than likely of their life changes that has happened to them also so I have to look at the whole pic and I have been somewhat sheltered and in my own world so God throws me a curve ball once in awhile like a wake up call .**

picture of Catholicismwe are all suppose to be in an attitude of charity, words kind of interfere with pictures don’t they or we see what we think we see? I suppose words can paint a picture but reading about Italy is not the same as visitng the country kind of like going on a crusie is not like visiting the locals. You have had a nice attitude and I thank you for that. God Bless you and your family Dessert
 
I would like to tell all people who think that islam is a new religion and Muhammed (pbuh) invented it.
Actually muslims believe That Islam has been there since day one.
God Almighty has sent 124,000 messengers/prophets on earth from Adam pbuh(1st) to Muhammed pbuh (last) to spread his word - oneness of god and to worship him alone.
The Qur’an mentions 25 by name.
Some of them are: Jacob-(yacoob) David-(dawood) Sulemon-(suleiman) Noah-(noo) Abraham-(Ibraheem), Isaac, Ismail-(Ismaeel) Moses-(Moosa) Jesus-(Isa) (pbut)
Does anyone know the meaning of MUSLIM??
A muslim means to submit your will to god.
If anyone submits their will to Almighty god and follows the rules of god is a muslim.
Because people were going astray from the right path to wrong, god sent different messengers/prophets to guide the people back onto the right track each with a scripture (tora,bible etc) with a basic message, oneness of god and to worship him alone.
Muhammad (pbuh) was the last messenger that god sent on earth with the qur’an.
In other words qur’an is a new and updated (refresshed) version of gods word which we should follow.

PBUH = peace be upon him
PBUT = peace be upon them
 
No it wasnt, there is evidence of the “traditions” of hajj and umra predating islam in the pagan religions of the arabs.
 
Considering the original topic, i think Islam in its teachings and in its general mentality has the same tribal, paganistic mindset as the guy mentioned in the original post described.

However as to their acknowledgement of the one God, i think that they profess to worship the one God, but that this one God of Islam is a warped vision and may in fact not be the one God they profess to worship at all, let alone the God of Christianity. At any rate even if they do worship God that does not negate a paganistic mindset present in the religion.

Yes the catechism acknowledges their profession to worship God, but then again not everything in the catechism is dogma, i think that perhaps this acknowledgment ambiguosly worded and it may simply be there to circumvent any potential problems with the muslims. Of course though we need to respect the catechism as a compendium of the teachings of the church but not everything is dogma.

An example is subsidiarity, it is a teaching of the church and that needs to be respected, yet the social teaching of subsidiarity is definitely not a dogma of the Church.
 
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