Islam as a system of life

[Aydan]

nice message once again although Muslims will say that the New Testament is corrupt because when they say they believe in the Bible they mean only the Old Testament since they are taught that the Bible was corrupted by the New Testament.

You are taking a lenient view of the crime of adultry. .

Bro, He stopped the stoning because man should not judge. Other teachings of His in the bible are consistent and reinforce this point.

He did well by saying that the right punishment is stoning to death and the culprit should be stoned. Do you feel that Jesus forbade any one from stoning? Not at all.

Yes he forbade it when he said love one another, bless those who curse you, turn the other cheek, when your brother asks for your coat, give him your cloak too, don’t look at the speck in your brother’s eye whilst ignoring the wood in your own. All mesages of love. NO violence. NO judgment of our fellow children of God.

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A God who has revealed himself… .

The God came down as man is the revelation i speak about. By His example and by His teachings we are blessed as children of God. All previous teachings through the prophets, all the laws of Israel, were but a preparation for when he would come down and unite us again into his holiness.

. God punished the many people in the world, the same God punished the people in the time of Noah and in the time of Abraham (

Man chooses punishment. God obliges. And only God may dish out punishment if he wishes. Not man. That was Jesus’s point.

You are now inventing a new type of loving God. I did not invent a loving God. A loving God invented me, and you. Men did not know it. could not see it, did not understand the depth of his love. Then he came down as Jesus to die for us so that we could all go to heaven when we die.

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You are mistaken about many things. We Muslims know more about Jesus and his mother.

You know only what you have read from Muslim sources. Ever thought that they could be wrong? or conveniently distorted? The Quran mixes up Maryam , the sister of Moses, with Mary, the mother of Christ. The Quran, or rather Muhammad, thinks the Trinity is God Jesus and Mary (not the Holy Spirit). The Quran says that God hid Jesus away so he would not be crucified but put someone else in his place. Does God have need to practice deception? The Quran calls Jesus Messiah, but what exactly is his role as a Messiah and why is a Messiah supposedly subordinate to Muhammad in the Muslim world? No, I do not think Muslims are encouraged to or know much about Jesus or Mary.

Jesus came to fulfil the law of Moses. The interpretations that men gave the law, the Jewish Torah then, and your Sharia now, is not what pleases God. an eye for an eye etc…,

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I want toknow that if you have the good intentions in your heart then why do you go to the church every Sunday?? \

Faith and love is why I go to church. I know God sees my heart, not what i am forced to wear because men or woman may be tempted if i do not wear hideous outfits If you reason this out you must know that it is ridiculous to have a woman cover herself just so men should not be tempted by her. God made Eve from the rib of Adam to be of equal standing, not his toe such that she is dispensable and unworthy and can be used to prevent him from falling into sin.

. Why? Why pray at all, according to your principle of good heart intentions??

I think you missed my point bro, Prayers are good. For you and me. It strengthens faith and evidences faith. But pray because you love god, not because you fear him. Which Diety would respect or reward a coward who bowed because he feared a more powerful being. God’s whole plan is to teach people to love him freely. Islam misses that.

Thank you for your good wishes. Jesus is no God. He is simply a man, no more, but he is the best of men, a messenger and a prophet of God.

If your Quran tells you that it confirms the gospels, and the gospel of John tells you that Jesus proclaims his divinity, what do you do? disobey the Quran? The gospels were already around at Muhammad;s time and Allah says he confirms them. well he could not be confirming an allegedly corrupted text could he? Archaelogical discoveries show that it is the same gospels and biblical books which existed at the time of early apostles as during Muhammad’s time.

So bro, you have a problem, is your “prophet/messiah” Jesus a liar for having claimed to be divine in the Gospel? Or is Muhammad in error in the Quran.

I end with this prayer again. If you are a seeker of the truth, then seek truthfully and i guarantee you will find. Go beyond your usual Muslim sources and encounter God through reason. Mindless ritualistic obedience to the contents of a book compiled by the supposed revelations of a man, who by all accounts could not even be considered holy in thoughts words and deeds, cannot lead you to truth. There is a religion of faith and reason. You will find it in the Catholic Church.

“Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given, knock and the door shall be opened.”
"

 

[Reuben_J]

At least we have something to show. You do not have anything to show even. There is nothing prescribed in your holy book about the supposed prayers that you are supposed to be performing nowadays.

He heh Planten, this kind of argument my candy is sweeter than your candy will bring you nowhere. Nobody can prove that Muslims are more prayerful or holier than Christians or vice versa.

The fact that your prayer is ‘prescribed’ in your holy book can work against you too because you can become a robot merely to fulfill your obligation day and night without really reflecting on why you’re doing it. Eventually it can become just chores that you must do. And by doing what you are forced to do does not in anyway make you better than those who pray because they love to pray even though they are not forced to do it.

Besides we have different definition of prayers. We have the Holy Mass and that’s ‘prescribed’ in our holy book. We have corporate prayers and personal prayers too. Like I said this line of discussion will bring us nowhere. My question will be, so what? If you pray and be a good Muslim, I’ll be happy for you because it will make you a good and peaceful person, a person I’d like to have as a friend and a neighbor.

But nowadays some supposedly good Muslims can be very dangerous as we see by their actions in bringing destruction and killing. So basically it’s going back to the drawing board – does your religion bring peace and goodness or does it bring war, killing and prejudice?

 

[R_not]

:yup: :hypno: :knight2:
the Islamic g-d is just alright** just vengeful that is!**

You can spell the islamic god with a ‘o’. You put the ‘-’ in the name when refering to God which makes sense, but not when refering to allah.

allah is a combination of mohammed’s pagan moon god and himself. in fact, if mohammed would have just let allah be his pagan moon god it would have been better but then he started inserting himself into it. allah degenerated as mohammed degenerated during his life. Basically as mohammed became more violent, intolerant, lustful, vengeful, hateful - so did his allah.

 

[Aydan]

Actually I choose not to do that because as I explained in an earlier thread some Christians also use Allah but when we use it we’re not referring to the Islamic g-d but the holy Trinity I use Allah quite frequently especially in church I use it when speaking Turkish. There is another word for God in Turkish but I don’t like to use it because then I have to explain that I’m actually praying to God as in the holy Trinity because most people don’t recognize the other Turkish word for God. Frankly it’s just easier to use Allah because I find it easier to explain. if I’m not mistaken some Maronite Christians use Allah as well. I believe it is even used when praying the rosary in Arabic but I can’t be sure. So anyway that’s why you see me write Islamic g-d or Islamic allah.

You can spell the islamic god with a ‘o’. You put the ‘-’ in the name when refering to God which makes sense, but not when refering to allah.

allah is a combination of mohammed’s pagan moon god and himself. in fact, if mohammed would have just let allah be his pagan moon god it would have been better but then he started inserting himself into it. allah degenerated as mohammed degenerated during his life. Basically as mohammed became more violent, intolerant, lustful, vengeful, hateful - so did his allah.

 

[chrisse]

Actually I choose not to do that because as I explained in an earlier thread some Christians also use Allah but when we use it we’re not referring to the Islamic g-d but the holy Trinity I use Allah quite frequently especially in church I use it when speaking Turkish. There is another word for God in Turkish but I don’t like to use it because then I have to explain that I’m actually praying to God as in the holy Trinity because most people don’t recognize the other Turkish word for God. Frankly it’s just easier to use Allah because I find it easier to explain. if I’m not mistaken some Maronite Christians use Allah as well. I believe it is even used when praying the rosary in Arabic but I can’t be sure. So anyway that’s why you see me write Islamic g-d or Islamic allah.

Cool, Aydan, but it might be better when referring to the islamic god allah to use the small ‘a’ and not capital ‘A’ to distinguish. Same as in English God is the Christian G-d and god refers to pagan gods.

It’s just that Jews use G-d as well.

 

[Aydan]

well I’m hoping that this will be the last time I have to explain this issue but I’ll just use the word God because I’m not speaking Turkish anyway in here.

Cool, Aydan, but it might be better when referring to the islamic god allah to use the small ‘a’ and not capital ‘A’ to distinguish. Same as in English God is the Christian G-d and god refers to pagan gods.

It’s just that Jews use G-d as well.

 

[nosadl]

I was not blaming the Catholics prayers. Not at all. It was the Catholics here who were ridiculing the Muslims daily prayers, as you have also done the same, calling them a show piece.

We have collective prayers and individual prayers, open prayers and private prayers. You call our prayers a show piece.

At least we have something to show. You do not have anything to show even. There is nothing prescribed in your holy book about the supposed prayers that you are supposed to be performing nowadays.

To my muslim friends in this forum, Planten, Muslim Woman, and all others.

Have you wondered why you are in this forum at all? What impulse caused you to enter a Catholic Web site and debate with those convinced of the truth of Jesus? What motivated and animated you? What caused you to decide to engage in reasoning when you must have known that reasoning would lead you away from Islam?

Is it the emptiness you feel in Islam? Is it the niggling feeling that something is not quite right in the religion you are in? Is it the intellectual disharmony caused by the inconsistencies, errors, fallacies, violent exhortations, and meaningless injunctions found in the Quran? Is it because the concept of pre-destination in islam is wrecking your innate belief that man decides his own fate? Is it because you wonder sometimes about Muhammad’s personal life and habits? Is it because you worry that all the good works may do may still not guarantee your salvation? Is it because you know deep inside that we are God’s beloved children and not his slaves or playthings?

I do think there is a more profound reason.

In Jeremiah God says, before you were born I called you. And in the gospel, Jesus says, seek and ye shall find.

You were led here to learn and know so much more about Christ, who is the Way and the Life. You would not be in this forum but for his whispering in your ear. This is the calling and the invitation Jesus has given you.

The rest is up to you. I pray you receive his grace and join us in love.

 

[Aydan]

Of course I cannot speak for Muslims here in the forum but one thing I do know is that some Muslims dedicate themselves to go out and tell Christians about Islam in effort to educate them and/or convert them to Islam. There are a lot of programs that encourage Muslims to do this because Muslims believe that Christians have gone astray. Here’s an example of just one of those programs it’s called the Deen show take a look at this video and you’ll see what I mean.
thedeenshow.com/show.php?action=detail&id=950

If for some reason the video won’t play just double-click on it and it will come up on youtube.

To my muslim friends in this forum, Planten, Muslim Woman, and all others.

Have you wondered why you are in this forum at all? What impulse caused you to enter a Catholic Web site and debate with those convinced of the truth of Jesus? What motivated and animated you? What caused you to decide to engage in reasoning when you must have known that reasoning would lead you away from Islam?

Is it the emptiness you feel in Islam? Is it the niggling feeling that something is not quite right in the religion you are in? Is it the intellectual disharmony caused by the inconsistencies, errors, fallacies, violent exhortations, and meaningless injunctions found in the Quran? Is it because the concept of pre-destination in islam is wrecking your innate belief that man decides his own fate? Is it because you wonder sometimes about Muhammad’s personal life and habits? Is it because you worry that all the good works may do may still not guarantee your salvation? Is it because you know deep inside that we are God’s beloved children and not his slaves or playthings?

I do think there is a more profound reason.

In Jeremiah God says, before you were born I called you. And in the gospel, Jesus says, seek and ye shall find.

You were led here to learn and know so much more about Christ, who is the Way and the Life. You would not be in this forum but for his whispering in your ear. This is the calling and the invitation Jesus has given you.

The rest is up to you. I pray you receive his grace and join us in love.

 

[keeppreachin]

lol @ the ignorance in this thread.

Explain why many muslim countries have no violence? Turkey, Gulf States, Indonesia, Egypt, Kuwait, … When I say no violence i’m referring to the comparison to other arab states.

Regarding the remaining arab muslim states, they are current victims of imperialism and colonization by the white folk (palestine, iraq, afghanistan)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

To my muslim friends in this forum, Planten, Muslim Woman, and all others.

Have you wondered why you are in this forum at all?

we are visiting non- Catholic Religions section mainly

Coming to this forum does not mean that we have to agree with Catholics all the time. Some Christians are engaged in Islamic forums , they don’t agree with us most of the time

 

[R_not]

lol @ the ignorance in this thread.

Explain why many muslim countries have no violence? Turkey, Gulf States, Indonesia, Egypt, Kuwait, … When I say no violence i’m referring to the comparison to other arab states.

Regarding the remaining arab muslim states, they are current victims of imperialism and colonization by the white folk (palestine, iraq, afghanistan)

You named countries that are persecuting Christians - but not mentioned in the mainstream media.

As for the other ‘arab’ muslim countries - they are the victims of their own decay and violence of islam. Maybe you should read about the history of jihad.

Or learn what their koran says about how they should hate us, and make sure to make no peace with us that lasts longer than 10 years and to be broken as soon as they are rearmed/regrouped (it is called a hudna), or that the only options for peace with non-muslims is either death, conversion or subjugation - it is all in their own texts.

Crack open a koran and find it all out - read the post’s websites we proved there is plenty for you to read.

Or how about slavery? Slavery is still going on in islam. They take little children and with the little boys they castrate them fully or partially. Read what they do and what they do to little girls, how they follow their prophet and what they do to them when they are tired of them.

Slavery in islam

mohammed broke so many of the 10 commandments that he had to redefine sin. This is what they follow: mohammed was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Vengeful Warlord.

 

[R_not]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

we are visiting non- Catholic Religions section mainly

Coming to this forum does not mean that we have to agree with Catholics all the time. Some Christians are engaged in Islamic forums , they don’t agree with us most of the time

You are here to try to convert us. da’wa.

the call to islam.

And why would muslims go to mainly non-muslim websites.

 

[R_not]

Of course I cannot speak for Muslims here in the forum but one thing I do know is that some Muslims dedicate themselves to go out and tell Christians about Islam in effort to educate them and/or convert them to Islam. There are a lot of programs that encourage Muslims to do this because Muslims believe that Christians have gone astray. Here’s an example of just one of those programs it’s called the Deen show take a look at this video and you’ll see what I mean.
thedeenshow.com/show.php?action=detail&id=950

If for some reason the video won’t play just double-click on it and it will come up on youtube.

It is called da’wa. The call to islam. One of the women muslims even made the statement that they wanted one of our other posters to say the sentence that would make her a muslim.

I posted a comment - about why their prophet is not a prophet and I won’t hold my breath that it will be posted. They only want zombie robots to be on that site. Censorship is a favorite tool of those who cannot face disagreement.

Since no discussion of mohammed/islam/koran is allowed in islam, let alone from a non-muslim - it won’t be posted. I created an anonymous id on yahoo before posting and a different id.

 

[Aydan]

Do you mean the declaration of the faith the Shahaadah? nope they won’t post your comments but all of these videos are on Youtube as well if you post there people will see your comments so I would say post them there.

It is called da’wa. The call to islam. One of the women muslims even made the statement that they wanted one of our other posters to say the sentence that would make her a muslim.

I posted a comment - about why their prophet is not a prophet and I won’t hold my breath that it will be posted. They only want zombie robots to be on that site. Censorship is a favorite tool of those who cannot face disagreement.

Since no discussion of mohammed/islam/koran is allowed in islam, let alone from a non-muslim - it won’t be posted. I created an anonymous id on yahoo before posting and a different id.

 

[Aydan]

Actually it works both ways so I’m happy to have them here because that way I can’t fall for any of the Muslim arguments like I almost did before becoming Christian you see when they make their arguments on here I have the benefit of getting the Christian response to them so the next time I hear these arguments I know how to respond. I fear if they were not here we would not discuss this issue as much as we do. When I have visited one Islamic web site I saw at least one example of a Catholic priest who left the priesthood and converted to Islam and sadly I’ve seen many cases of people who were Catholic converting to Islam. That one really hits home because that almost happened to me. Having the Muslims here helped me to refute these arguments when I need to.

You are here to try to convert us. da’wa.

the call to islam.

And why would muslims go to mainly non-muslim websites.

 

[nosadl]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

we are visiting non- Catholic Religions section mainly

Coming to this forum does not mean that we have to agree with Catholics all the time. Some Christians are engaged in Islamic forums , they don’t agree with us most of the time

With 1502 posts in the forum you cannot just be visiting. You’re here to stay madam and we welcome you. Jesus has called you, and your powers of reason will take you all the way through. Faith without reason is like a house of straw built on sand. Faith and reason is the hallmark of Christianity. Hear and be saved, believe and have eternal life. I will pray for you to complete your journey to Jesus Christ.

“Love one another as I have loved you” and " Love thy neighbour" must surely resonate more profoundly in you then anything the quran contains.

 

[chrisse]

lol @ the ignorance in this thread.

Explain why many muslim countries have no violence? Turkey, Gulf States, Indonesia, Egypt, Kuwait, … When I say no violence i’m referring to the comparison to other arab states.

Regarding the remaining arab muslim states, they are current victims of imperialism and colonization by the white folk (palestine, iraq, afghanistan)

Gulf States, in particular Saudi Arabia - chop chop square comes to mind.

Egypt - asked any Coptic Christians living in Egypt what they think of the non-violence in Egypt. Christians girls kidnapped, raped and forced to convert. Recently 20,000 muslims converged on a newly built Church calling out for it to be closed. A few came in to disturb the Mass. Some Christian men defended the Church and they were carted away never to be seen again.

Indonesia - three 16 year old Christian girls on their way home from school were decapitated as a gift for Ramadan. One other escaped with her neck badly hacked at.

Your claims of colonisation and imperialism are pure hypocrisy. Islam is the worst violator : genocide, ethnic cleansing, slavery and much more for 1400 years.

Sir, take your totally debunked Edward Said and his orientalism to the sewer where they belong. Edward Said, the palifakian. He never lived in the muslim philistine occupied Samaria/Jude/Gaza; apparently some family relations of his did - it was through these relations he claimed to be a “Palestinian”.

The only ignorance on this thread so far has come from the muslim apologists. Hypocrits the lot of them.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

… Jesus has called you,.

Some Christians who are also participants of this forum take part in Islamic forum . Who called them there ?

 

[Aydan]

For me there are two reasons why I was “called” there.

1. I need to have a basic understanding of Islam so that I can respect its customs and not alienate the refugees I’m trying to help who are Muslim. Many of them have been through so much trauma already so the last thing I want to do is accidentally disrespect them because I don’t know enough about Islamic customs
2. In some cases, I go there to defend Catholicism because just like many Protestant Christians many Muslims also misrepresent Catholicism. Therefore, some of us have to go there to ensure that Catholics have a voice in Islamic forums to say, " Hey no what you’re teaching is wrong. " It doesn’t really matter to me if I’m silenced or not because in my heart I know that I have done the best I could to defend my faith.** However, I certainly don’t go there because I want to become a Muslim that’s for sure.**

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

Some Christians who are also participants of this forum take part in Islamic forum . Who called them there ?

 

[nosadl]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

Some Christians who are also participants of this forum take part in Islamic forum . Who called them there ?

Jesus sent them there to spread the good news, to open up their minds, and present the gospels of faith and reason.