G
GraceDK
Guest
**I have bad news for you…there is no Christian world. **
No. You are right.* Because it was never the intent that we should built a religious clean state in this world. *In the high middle ages the Church attempted and failed and learned from that mistake. Since we do not try to built a Christian state you cannot say we fail. We can see however see how attempts in the Muslim world fail again and again. Sharia- Islam has much in common with other *tolitarian systems *that has failed, such as Communism and Nazism. In these ideologies it was also a tragedy for those of other faiths and persuasions to come under the rule of the tyranny.
*We as Christians work to have Christian principles in the world *(so we support political stuctures that seem good to the freedom and happiness of man such as the human-rights declaration and democracy etc, and free education).
“My Kingdom is not of this world”, said Christ. His follower John said: “The one who says he has no sin is a liar and the truth is not in him”. Islam is dangerous in that it upholds the ideal of a pure society cleared of all sin and misfits. Christianity speaks into the reality of man. It takes also the the frailty and weakness into account.
The most cold people you can encounter are those who claim they are not sinners. Therefore both atheism and Islam are problematic.
As I stated before, whenever people have tried to make a perfect society in this world by wiping out the inadequate elements, it has been by horrible genocide, bloodshed, and massacres. They were judged evil by history.
No one is even holding out as an ideal, any longer, the idea of a Pax Christiana. That has all disappeared and there are a bunch of secular states full of people who have little real interest in religion.
We do not intent to have a theocracy. You on the other hand fail again and again as you attemt it and people suffer at the hands of Islamic states. In fact, I give you that you are right that western states are secular, but I still think that the political principles by which they work are steeped in Christianity. That means: equality between the sexes, right to an education, right to a lawyer if you are on trial. Right not to be tortured etc. You do not live in an Islamic state do you? for it seems you take for granted the freedom that you have in western secular states.
On the person-level you are not right. there are many serious Christians and even many, many who yearly die for the name of Christ, mainly in North Korea and in Muslim countries and India.
We practice our faith mainly by striving to imitate Christ/ live holy ourselves instead of demanding punishment on others. We can start by the simple virtue of honesty and self-scrutiny, which are rarely found in the Muslim world.
So, what you described is the history of Catholic countries and states, and the rather typical secular diatribe against it that began in the 17th century. You just described Europe until secularism arose and displaced Catholicism, especially, and Christianity more broadly, making it politically irrelevant. All you are pointing out here is that Catholicism is in decline throughout most of the West. If ‘toleration’ of what is unclean is what you want, then you should stop being religious at all and embrace secularism. There is your future. [Though even that is a false future: even secularism has its clean and unclean, it just defines it differently.]
Jesus was not a politician. Thank God for that.
You spit out the words “tolerance for what is unclean”. Actually let’s get clear: you talk about people, dont you? But Christianity does not talk about unclean people, we talk about unclean actions. If you want to speak about sin then you have to get down and personal. I am not fit to live in a society of perfect individuals… are you yourself?
I have done many mistakes in my life and I continue to meet challenges that I dont always get out of perfectly. When a Christian falls into sin he feels guilty because he has sinned against him self (the calling of his life is to be a son of God) and against God and against another person (often). The Christian then admits his sin, go to the person(s) he has sinned against and says: “I am sorry. Can you forgive me?” and simultaneously he asks God’s forgiveness and he also has to forgive himself. You are unwise if you think* guilt and repentance *does not have a place in Christian lives. *Those who follow Christ become humbled. *If they dont, they cannot have COMPASSION, if they have no compassion they can not love.
No religion can stop asking questions about the human good and strive to put the human good into practice, to teach the good to its people and make it available to them in their lives. Catholics have largely forgotten that and, therefore, have no real future in terms of social impact upon the West. Christianity has imploded into meaninglessness.
Your statement is absurd to me. You speak to a person whose whole life has been changed by Jesus Christ and who knows people all around her who has been physically, mentally and spiritually healed by meeting the Living Christ. Ergo… Where you see nothing I see Everything.
Peace be with you and your house.
No. You are right.* Because it was never the intent that we should built a religious clean state in this world. *In the high middle ages the Church attempted and failed and learned from that mistake. Since we do not try to built a Christian state you cannot say we fail. We can see however see how attempts in the Muslim world fail again and again. Sharia- Islam has much in common with other *tolitarian systems *that has failed, such as Communism and Nazism. In these ideologies it was also a tragedy for those of other faiths and persuasions to come under the rule of the tyranny.
*We as Christians work to have Christian principles in the world *(so we support political stuctures that seem good to the freedom and happiness of man such as the human-rights declaration and democracy etc, and free education).
“My Kingdom is not of this world”, said Christ. His follower John said: “The one who says he has no sin is a liar and the truth is not in him”. Islam is dangerous in that it upholds the ideal of a pure society cleared of all sin and misfits. Christianity speaks into the reality of man. It takes also the the frailty and weakness into account.
The most cold people you can encounter are those who claim they are not sinners. Therefore both atheism and Islam are problematic.
As I stated before, whenever people have tried to make a perfect society in this world by wiping out the inadequate elements, it has been by horrible genocide, bloodshed, and massacres. They were judged evil by history.
No one is even holding out as an ideal, any longer, the idea of a Pax Christiana. That has all disappeared and there are a bunch of secular states full of people who have little real interest in religion.
We do not intent to have a theocracy. You on the other hand fail again and again as you attemt it and people suffer at the hands of Islamic states. In fact, I give you that you are right that western states are secular, but I still think that the political principles by which they work are steeped in Christianity. That means: equality between the sexes, right to an education, right to a lawyer if you are on trial. Right not to be tortured etc. You do not live in an Islamic state do you? for it seems you take for granted the freedom that you have in western secular states.
On the person-level you are not right. there are many serious Christians and even many, many who yearly die for the name of Christ, mainly in North Korea and in Muslim countries and India.
We practice our faith mainly by striving to imitate Christ/ live holy ourselves instead of demanding punishment on others. We can start by the simple virtue of honesty and self-scrutiny, which are rarely found in the Muslim world.
So, what you described is the history of Catholic countries and states, and the rather typical secular diatribe against it that began in the 17th century. You just described Europe until secularism arose and displaced Catholicism, especially, and Christianity more broadly, making it politically irrelevant. All you are pointing out here is that Catholicism is in decline throughout most of the West. If ‘toleration’ of what is unclean is what you want, then you should stop being religious at all and embrace secularism. There is your future. [Though even that is a false future: even secularism has its clean and unclean, it just defines it differently.]
Jesus was not a politician. Thank God for that.
You spit out the words “tolerance for what is unclean”. Actually let’s get clear: you talk about people, dont you? But Christianity does not talk about unclean people, we talk about unclean actions. If you want to speak about sin then you have to get down and personal. I am not fit to live in a society of perfect individuals… are you yourself?
I have done many mistakes in my life and I continue to meet challenges that I dont always get out of perfectly. When a Christian falls into sin he feels guilty because he has sinned against him self (the calling of his life is to be a son of God) and against God and against another person (often). The Christian then admits his sin, go to the person(s) he has sinned against and says: “I am sorry. Can you forgive me?” and simultaneously he asks God’s forgiveness and he also has to forgive himself. You are unwise if you think* guilt and repentance *does not have a place in Christian lives. *Those who follow Christ become humbled. *If they dont, they cannot have COMPASSION, if they have no compassion they can not love.
No religion can stop asking questions about the human good and strive to put the human good into practice, to teach the good to its people and make it available to them in their lives. Catholics have largely forgotten that and, therefore, have no real future in terms of social impact upon the West. Christianity has imploded into meaninglessness.
Your statement is absurd to me. You speak to a person whose whole life has been changed by Jesus Christ and who knows people all around her who has been physically, mentally and spiritually healed by meeting the Living Christ. Ergo… Where you see nothing I see Everything.
Peace be with you and your house.
does conscience play a role in the way they behave