Islam - Hadiths

[jakasaki]

Within this thread, all discussion will be on hadiths and whatever surrounds these hadiths.

Most of the collection of hadiths I will post will be from Sahih Bukhari, but I have no problem posting for discussion S. Muslim hadiths (et al).

**Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah.

The reports of the Prophet’s sayings and deeds are called ahadith.

Bukhari lived a couple of centuries after the Prophet’s death and worked extremely hard to collect his ahadith.

Each report in his collection was checked for compatibility with the Qur’an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established.

Bukhari’s collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).**

abdurrahman.org/sunnah/sahihBukhari/sbtintro.html

 

[jakasaki]

In the first hadith written it is called “Revelation” and it has 6 hadiths within.

I will post this one for discussion on how mohamad, the self proclaimed prophet of islam got his revelations.

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers)

Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle "O Allah’s Apostle!

How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?"

**Allah’s Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired.

Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." **

'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).

**
So, here mohamad claims that sometimes his revelation is of a ringing of a bell, other times it is an angel in the form of a man and mohamad “grasps whatever this angel is saying” and mohamad “grasps the inspiration” of the ringing bells.

 

[jakasaki]

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers)

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah’s Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. **He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. **

**The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more.

He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’

Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more.

He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’

Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) **

Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely.

**Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” **

They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.”

Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you.

You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters.

He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write.

He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!”

Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?”

Allah’s Apostle described whatever he had seen.

Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses.

I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah’s Apostle asked, “Will they drive me out?”

Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, “Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.”

But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet "While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira’ sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth.

I got afraid of him and came back home and said, ‘Wrap me (in blankets).’ And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran):

‘O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!’ Arise and warn (the people against Allah’s Punishment),… up to ‘and desert the idols.’ (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly."

---

So here within this hadith, mohamad is in the cave, he claims an angel appreared and **forced **mohamad 3 times to read and mohamad kept saying he could not read.

~ How can an Angel from God not know mohamad could not read.

Didn’t allah know mohamad could not read? Isn’t allah all knowing but didn’t know mohamad could not read. How can that be??

Why would an angel passing on a message from God to a “soon to be” prophet be so violent???

And to boot, we have this Christian relative of mohamads wife now telling mohamad that it’s Gabriel who came to him in the cave…

However, take note, when you read the koran or hadiths, anything in “parenthesis ( )” means it’s NOT part of the original document and these words or “explainations” were inserted by man.

 

[findinganswers]

I am learning Arabic, so my knowledge is limited.

But the word that Angel Gabriel (pbuh) used was “iqra” which means recite or read.

 

[findinganswers]

Why would an angel passing on a message from God to a “soon to be” prophet be so violent???

First of all, I don’t see the prophet (pbuh) to have a violent nature. If you look into his biography and you will see that he had a most noble character before and after he received revelations. I think your question is regarding one of the prophet’s great attributes as far as him being a military leader.

The prophet (pbuh) and his followers was being oppressed for I believe 13 years before he started to fight the oppression.

In Islam we are allowed to defend ourselves against oppression. But we are not allowed to oppress or be the aggressors.

Allah SWT is all knowing. He knows that many humans will be misguided by Satan and oppress believers.

If someone comes into your house, beats you and your family, and tells you you can’t be Catholic anymore. You will fight back won’t you?

Islam is a realistic religion. Allah SWT knows that there will be misguided oppressors. That is why defending oneself is allowed.

 

[jakasaki]

I am learning Arabic, so my knowledge is limited.

But the word that Angel Gabriel (pbuh) used was “iqra” which means recite or read.

This the hadith still stands on it’s own with the English translation.

Recite or read?

**Anyone can recite be illiterate or not. **

However,** not everyone can read if they are illiterate**.

Now back to the hadith…, how come the all knowing allah didn’t tell this angel that mohamad could not read?

 

[Jay53]

First of all, I don’t see the prophet (pbuh) to have a violent nature. If you look into his biography and you will see that he had a most noble character before and after he received revelations. I think your question is regarding one of the prophet’s great attributes as far as him being a military leader.

The prophet (pbuh) and his followers was being oppressed for I believe 13 years before he started to fight the oppression.

In Islam we are allowed to defend ourselves against oppression. But we are not allowed to oppress or be the aggressors.

Allah SWT is all knowing. He knows that many humans will be misguided by Satan and oppress believers.

If someone comes into your house, beats you and your family, and tells you you can’t be Catholic anymore. You will fight back won’t you?

Islam is a realistic religion. Allah SWT knows that there will be misguided oppressors. That is why defending oneself is allowed.

No, you misunderstand. She is asking why the supposed Angel Gabriel would be so violent? Why would an angel of the Lord be violent with a “prophet”?

According to your logic, should Muhammad have defended himself against the “angel”?

 

[findinganswers]

This the hadith still stands on it’s own with the English translation.

Recite or read?

**Anyone can recite be illiterate or not. **

However,** not everyone can read if they are illiterate**.

Now back to the hadith…, how come the all knowing allah didn’t tell this angel that mohamad could not read?

What do you mean it stands on its own?

 

[jakasaki]

Quote: Jakasaki:

Why would an angel passing on a message from God to a “soon to be” prophet be so violent???

QUOTE=findinganswers;6220010
First of all, I don’t see the prophet (pbuh) to have a violent nature.

Read what I typed. ** Why WOULD AN ANGEL passing a message FROM GOD to a prophet be so violent. **

I didn’t say mohamad had a violent nature in this post. The ANGEL HAD A VIOLENT NATURE. So, the question is, “”“Why would an angel passing on a message from God to a “soon to be” prophet be so violent???”""

If you look into his biography and you will see that he had a most noble character before and after he received revelations. I think your question is regarding one of the prophet’s great attributes as far as him being a military leader.

Nope, the question is why was this so called angel of God so violent with mohamad.

The prophet (pbuh) and his followers was being oppressed for I believe 13 years before he started to fight the oppression.

Nope, your reply is imaterial to the question… we will discuss mohamads wars later on in the hadiths… SO THE question is why was this so called angel of God so violent with mohamad.

In Islam we are allowed to defend ourselves against oppression.
But we are not allowed to oppress or be the aggressors.

Stick to the hadith. We will cover war hadiths later on.

**Allah SWT is all knowing. **

Well, here is the question again, if allah is all knowing WHY DIDN’T HE KNOW MOHAMAD COULD NOT READ!!!

He knows that many humans will be misguided by Satan and oppress believers.
If someone comes into your house, beats you and your family, and tells you you can’t be Catholic anymore. You will fight back won’t you?

I will not allow this to change the topic of what you repied to.

Islam is a realistic religion. Allah SWT knows that there will be misguided oppressors. That is why defending oneself is allowed.

We are talking about hadiths and I’ve only posted 2 of them for discussion.

I see you have a different agenda. Please quote the hadith you are addressing and stick to that.

Also, you are a new user on were and you are another muslim who will not put his religion on your profile., Your religion profile is blank.

Many of you muslims come on here and leave your religion blank.

Why is that? Are you embarrased to state islam/muslim in your profile?

I belong to a few islamic boards on the net and I have NO problem stating Orthodox Christian and I wear that title proudly.

 

[findinganswers]

No, you misunderstand. She is asking why the supposed Angel Gabriel would be so violent? Why would an angel of the Lord be violent with a “prophet”?

According to your logic, should Muhammad have defended himself against the “angel”?

Thank you for clearing that up. My fault I read it wrong.

I don’t see that as being violent. He squeezed him. He didn’t punch him in the face. He didn’t kick him in the head.

If one does CPR on another is it considered violence?

I cannot say why he squeezed him. My personal view is that it was not a violent squeeze, but to ensure the Prophet who would meditate in the cave, that what he was experiencing was real. But that is just my personal view. I am not as learned as I would like.

As far as your second question. No I don’t think there was a reason to defend himself since I don’t see it as a violent.

I sometimes squeeze my mom cause I love my mom. CPR is given to people who can’t breath.

 

[spn82756]

I think it’s clear why the angel was so violent. It was NOT an angel of God…simple as that. It was an angel from Satan. It was an angel that Satan sent to stop any acceptance of Christ as the Son of God in Arabia. There is no other being that would have so much to gain from the rejection of Christ as the Son of God. The great I AM.

The Angel Gabriel announced the conception and birth of Jesus to Mary…as we all know. How could that same angel later go onto say that God was wrong the first time around and that Jesus is just a prophet.

I believe that Dante’s Inferno has a pretty good handle on mohammad and the result of his turning millions and millions away from Christ.

 

[spn82756]

Thank you for clearing that up. My fault I read it wrong.

I don’t see that as being violent. He squeezed him. He didn’t punch him in the face. He didn’t kick him in the head.

If one does CPR on another is it considered violence?

I cannot say why he squeezed him. My personal view is that it was not a violent squeeze, but to ensure the Prophet who would meditate in the cave, that what he was experiencing was real. But that is just my personal view. I am not as learned as I would like.

As far as your second question. No I don’t think there was a reason to defend himself since I don’t see it as a violent.

I sometimes squeeze my mom cause I love my mom. CPR is given to people who can’t breath.

HUH??? He squeezed him? He squeezed so hard as the scare the living daylights out of mohammad. Mohammad was scared. He wasn’t joyful. God comforts…He doesn’t terrify.

 

[findinganswers]

Read what I typed. ** Why WOULD AN ANGEL passing a message FROM GOD to a prophet be so violent. **

I didn’t say mohamad had a violent nature in this post. The ANGEL HAD A VIOLENT NATURE. So, the question is, “”“Why would an angel passing on a message from God to a “soon to be” prophet be so violent???”""

Nope, the question is why was this so called angel of God so violent with mohamad.

Nope, your reply is imaterial to the question… we will discuss mohamads wars later on in the hadiths… SO THE question is why was this so called angel of God so violent with mohamad.

Stick to the hadith. We will cover war hadiths later on.

Well, here is the question again, if allah is all knowing WHY DIDN’T HE KNOW MOHAMAD COULD NOT READ!!!

I will not allow this to change the topic of what you repied to.

We are talking about hadiths and I’ve only posted 2 of them for discussion.

I see you have a different agenda. Please quote the hadith you are addressing and stick to that.

Also, you are a new user on were and you are another muslim who will not put his religion on your profile., Your religion profile is blank.

Many of you muslims come on here and leave your religion blank.

Why is that? Are you embarrased to state islam/muslim in your profile?

I belong to a few islamic boards on the net and I have NO problem stating Orthodox Christian and I wear that title proudly.

I misread your quote. I am sorry English is my second language. But I answered the question about the squeeze in a previous post to the best of my knowledge.

Well, here is the question again, if allah is all knowing WHY DIDN’T HE KNOW MOHAMAD COULD NOT READ!!!

Does the all caps and the exclamation points mean you are getting mad or yelling?

First of all Allah is all knowing, you are catholic are you not? Allah means “God” in arabic. Even Jesus called god “Elah” since that means God in Armaic. So why would you ask me “If…”?

I told you the word “Iqra” means recite or read. Since there was no physical written script being presented to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for him to read, he was told to recite.

Also since Quran also means recite. The Angel Gabriel was telling him to recite.

We are talking about hadiths and I’ve only posted 2 of them for discussion.

Again I concede I am not that learned but I can try to talk about the few I have learned.

Why is that? Are you embarrased to state islam/muslim in your profile?

No it is obvious I am Muslim due to my replies. I haven’t said whether I am a boy or girl or my age or where I live or what type of food I like or my favorite TV show, do you assume I am ashamed of those things as well?

I didn’t fill out my profile because I don’t have to.

I belong to a few islamic boards on the net and I have NO problem stating Orthodox Christian and I wear that title proudly

My gratitude of my religion is between me and God. You fill out your profile and it makes you proud. Good for you.

 

[findinganswers]

HUH??? He squeezed him? He squeezed so hard as the scare the living daylights out of mohammad. Mohammad was scared. He wasn’t joyful. God comforts…He doesn’t terrify.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was scared before he was squeezed. If you start hearing voices in a cave while you are in meditating your going to be a bit uneasy. Also you don’t know why he was scared, maybe the thought of carrying a message, from the creator of the Universe, that changed the world, had him feeling a bit shocked and overwhelmed.

God comforts…He doesn’t terrify.

While I agree he comforts, I am still a God-fearing man.

 

[spn82756]

While I agree he comforts, I am still a God-fearing man.

Me too…The Holy Trinity. Father…Son…and Holy Spirit!

 

[findinganswers]

Me too…The Holy Trinity. Father…Son…and Holy Spirit!

Oh ok so now you admit why a Prophet might be scared?

 

[findinganswers]

Oh ok so now you admit why a Prophet might be scared?

OOOPS SORRY ENGLISH IS MY SECOND LANGUAGE…

So you can now see why a prophet might be scared?

 

[spn82756]

OOOPS SORRY ENGLISH IS MY SECOND LANGUAGE…

So you can now see why a prophet might be scared?

Don’t worry about English being a second lanquage here. That won’t matter.

But no…I’m not sure why a prophet would be scared…at least not for longer than a few seconds. He was often scared. Look at the 15 year old Mary when Gabriel appeared to her. He was very quick to tell her not to be frightened. There was no fear to be had from him. He did not shake or squeeze or in any way intimidate her. He appeared to tell her she would conceive of the Holy Spirit and give birth to the Son of God. To the great I AM.

My reference in agreeing with you was that I am a God fearing man also.

 

[jakasaki]

QUOTE=findinganswers;6220203

I misread your quote. I am sorry English is my second language. But I answered the question about the squeeze in a previous post to the best of my knowledge.

Yes, thank you and I did see your reply.

Does the all caps and the exclamation points mean you are getting mad or yelling?

No, not at all, I do CAPS to capture your/or anyones attention. I will back off the CAPS and will not do it any more because some people take it as yelling or mad. That was not my intention. Thank you for bringing it up.

First of all Allah is all knowing,

If allah is all-knowing, why didn’t he know that mohamad could not read?

If allah is all-knowing, why did he send the angel to the cave here mohamad was, but allah didn’t tell the angel that mohamad could not read?

you are catholic are you not?

I am an Eastern Orthodox Chistian, AKA Greek Orthodox. And my family is Catholic & Eastern Orthodox.

Allah means “God” in arabic.

Yes, I’ve heard that.

Even Jesus called god “Elah” since that means God in Armaic. So why would you ask me “If…”?

:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: ~ we are discussing islamic hadiths. Not Christ and not Aramaic

I told you the word “Iqra” means recite or read.

Indeed you did and I confirm you did state that.

Therefore, I ask again, why didn’t the all knowing allah know that mohamad could not read? Why didn’t allah tell the angel that mohamad could not read?

Now, lets focurs on the word “recite”.

If the angel said “mohamad repeat after me and recite” well that’s different, because mohamad would be able to 'recite & repeat", but that was not the case.

Since there was no physical written script being presented to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for him to read, he was told to recite.

Well whoa there… you said and I quote you:

I told you the word** “Iqra” means recite or read**.

**Also since Quran also means recite. The Angel Gabriel was telling him to recite. **

All is well, but, since the angel told mohamad to read there is a problem. If the angel to mohamad to “recite” well, there is no problem and mohamad would have “recited”, but he didn’t. He told the angel in the cave he could not.

Again I concede I am not that learned but I can try to talk about the few I have learned.

I’m not “learned” as well, but I do read and I do stayoff the anti-islamic sites.

The website I posted in my initial first pots for the hadiths is 100% authentic for islam.

Perhaps not Shia because they have their own, but for Sunni it is. Please use the site to read the hadiths which I will be posting for discussion.

No it is obvious I am Muslim due to my replies. I haven’t said whether I am a boy or girl or my age or where I live or what type of food I like or my favorite TV show, do you assume I am ashamed of those things as well?

Now, now… that is not what wrote, nor was it my intention.

I asked as to why you didn’t post your religion on your profile.

I don’t care if you are male or female, where you live, what is your SS# or address or county or city or state.

I don’t care what you eat, what your taste in music is or what is your favorite TV show. Coulnd not care less.

I didn’t fill out my profile because I don’t have to.

So be it! It just helps others who reply to you to know… that’s all.

My gratitude of my religion is between me and God. You fill out your profile and it makes you proud. Good for you.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was scared before he was squeezed. If you start hearing voices in a cave while you are in meditating your going to be a bit uneasy. Also you don’t know why he was scared, maybe the thought of carrying a message, from the creator of the Universe, that changed the world, had him feeling a bit shocked and overwhelmed.

That (his role) was not even an issue at the time. All he knew was that a spiritual entity had appeared that was now giving orders. And then he launched into an attack, choking him and scaring him so badly that Mohammad hid.

No previously recorded incident with angels has ever been similar. Anything that was similar was quickly identified as demonic activity in the guise of an angel, which if you study the history of monastics was very common. The Desert Fathers often spoke of spiritual discernment and the ability to know the commands of God versus the commands of the evil one.

While I agree he comforts, I am still a God-fearing man.

And when you see fear of divine power, it is always out of fear for God - but what does that fear mean? It means humility and the realization of our own sin, just as Isaiah had when he stood before the throne of God, or St. Peter had when he saw the miracle of the fishnets. That was not the case with Mohammad. His fear was the same fear one might feel walking through the bad part of town at 2 am, or one might feel if someone approaches their car with a gun.

Whatever it was that spoke to Mohammad in that cave, it was not an angel of God.