M
medallionsnijme
Guest
and inJesus :applause:
- Status
I
inJESUS
Guest
It is tiring to discuss the “peace” in Islam. Islam does not have the same meaning of peace. As a second class citizen, you might not be killed, but you will be humiliated …can you pretend it’s not peace? after all you must thank God it’s “just” humiliation and your head is still attached to your body. Peace is how Muslims define it that is why threads dealing with this topic will never be fruitful since the definition of the word is different and there is no authority in Islam. Muhammad killed non-Muslims, killed apostates, killed mockers of Islam…can you say it’s not “peace”? yes but to Muslims it is peace …
I
inJESUS
Guest
To Irene,
Having good teachings is not the only criteria to choose a religion…otherwise Mormonisn is, for example, a better option than Islam. The be a Muslim, you must distrust in God, His Church, the Bible and history. If you are willing to believe that God did not care about His teachings or about the church founded by the apostles in the first century or about the disciples of the apostles, then you can choose between Muhammad, Smith, Manalo or any figure who claims to care about the truth more than God.
Having good teachings is not the only criteria to choose a religion…otherwise Mormonisn is, for example, a better option than Islam. The be a Muslim, you must distrust in God, His Church, the Bible and history. If you are willing to believe that God did not care about His teachings or about the church founded by the apostles in the first century or about the disciples of the apostles, then you can choose between Muhammad, Smith, Manalo or any figure who claims to care about the truth more than God.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
That is your opinion. Many Jews staunchly disagree with you and quite frankly, I agree with them. Orthodox Jews and Muslims are very very very similar in their understanding of the world, I think.
Nonetheless, you actually missed me point, which is that those laws, whether you think they apply to you or not, those laws are from God. Period. They came from God, so unless you want to say that God used to be barbaric or uncivilized…
More moderate than what? Muslims have the ulema to whom they can refer for proper interpretation. Translation is never an issue, though, since the language isn’t dead.
More to the point, a variety of opinions on legal matters serves to make Islam more easily applicable to more groups of people. A true blessing in Islam actually.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
I’m sorry if you don’t know the definition of harm. I thought this was pretty simple, actually. It has nothing to do with semantic trickery, at all.
I’m really baffled at how people on this forum sometimes try to confound even the most simple words.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
The word peace in islam (i.e., salaam) is the same as peace in Judaism (i.e., shalom).
Muhammad was at war.
In wars, people kill other people. An unfortunate fact of our existence.
M
medallionsnijme
Guest
Originally Posted by Sister Amy
There is a basic principle in Islam, no harm and no reciprocal harm. You say a man can beat his wife, and I say he cannot harm her. So if he can beat her without harming her, fine.
sister amy, im sorry to say that i think that you are very brainwashed by the nincompoopery that islam holds. its very unfortunate that you cannot see that harm constitues to anything that is meant to hurt: physically, emotionally by using words that are meant in a mean way inflict harm, etc. as to the junk about “no reciprocal harm”, what about all thats in the qu’ran about its ok to go and kill someones brother if theyve killed yours. that right there is enough to classify “reciprocated harm”. please get your record straight. im baffled how some people in this forum dont understand what contradiction is, cos thats a good example of it right there.
and those old laws are precisely that: old. theyre from the Old Testament, whereas Christ transformed and reinstitued the law in the New Testament because Christ instituted a New law: love God above all with everything youve got and love your neighbor as yourself. and to paraphrase, i remember that Christ said something along the lines of ‘no longer do what was in the old law (as in an eye for an eye etc) but rather turn the other cheek’…as in learn to forgive. cant see how thats a bad thing.
There is a basic principle in Islam, no harm and no reciprocal harm. You say a man can beat his wife, and I say he cannot harm her. So if he can beat her without harming her, fine.
sister amy, im sorry to say that i think that you are very brainwashed by the nincompoopery that islam holds. its very unfortunate that you cannot see that harm constitues to anything that is meant to hurt: physically, emotionally by using words that are meant in a mean way inflict harm, etc. as to the junk about “no reciprocal harm”, what about all thats in the qu’ran about its ok to go and kill someones brother if theyve killed yours. that right there is enough to classify “reciprocated harm”. please get your record straight. im baffled how some people in this forum dont understand what contradiction is, cos thats a good example of it right there.
and those old laws are precisely that: old. theyre from the Old Testament, whereas Christ transformed and reinstitued the law in the New Testament because Christ instituted a New law: love God above all with everything youve got and love your neighbor as yourself. and to paraphrase, i remember that Christ said something along the lines of ‘no longer do what was in the old law (as in an eye for an eye etc) but rather turn the other cheek’…as in learn to forgive. cant see how thats a bad thing.
D
dzheremi
Guest
Isn’t inJESUS a native Arabic speaker? I think he knows this…
Also, so what? It’s the same tri-consonantal root so Muslims must be telling the truth when they say Islam is a religion of peace?
And the Muslims of today, Sister Amy? Where was the war in Morocco this happened? Or this? Where is the war in many other parts of the world when Muslims decide to kill their co-religionists, and others?
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
If you think I’m brainwashed or, as you put it, “very brainwashed”
then why bother even replying? More to the point, why should I even bother replying to you, since you think my mind is just filled with ‘nincompoopery?’Harm, you say, is something meant to hurt. I can agree with that.
Physically–yes.
Emotionally–yes.
Now, I should have said “reciprocating harm” instead of “reciprocal harm”–that’s my mistake. But this is actually a hadith, which I found translated as such: “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.”
Muslims are actually supposed to forgive those who transgress against them.
This is what the Qur’an says:
(5:45) And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
It goes on to explain that even though this was ordained for the Children of Israel, they were then sent Jesus, the son of Mary, with the Gospel, to confirm the Torah and provide guidance and light. It also says that there is a “law and a method” for each of these groups.
It’s a passage that you might be interested to read actually.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
I would hope he knows this, but his post certainly implied otherwise so I was bringing him/her as well as all other readers back to the essential meaning and root of this word “peace.”
Now, that’s why you must understand the Arabic/Hebrew meaning of the word salaam/shalom. Go ask a Jewish person if you don’t know. Most English-speakers think of something else when they talk about “peace,” than what Jews and Muslims mean.
I don’t think that these killings are justified, first of all, and I hate war as much as anyone else. What I was trying to illustrate was that it isn’t fair for people to try to call Muhammad a murderer or worse, because he was at war. He wasn’t just slaughtering people who came up to him that he disliked, although that is what many here would like to imagine. Jesus never went to war. He was never in the position of leadership that Muhammad had, and Jesus was never responsible for the safety and security of his “flock.” He did not have to fight to protect them. So it’s a fully unfair comparison, in my opinion, which has been brought here on this forum to try to smear Muhammad.
He was at war. When people are at war, people get killed.
R
R_not
Guest
islam IS political. Look at sharia law - it is the political law of the land that is based on the koran. It is the law that allows ‘honor killings’, enslavement of infidels, the forced conversions and/or forced marriages of infidel girls, the taking of children as brides, the killing the infidels - their subjugation and humiliation if they pay some outrageous tax and do the bidding of muslims which is basically do whatever muslims don’t want to do and we have seen in one century how the muslims have almost wiped them out in the lands they stole from them, and it is the law that controls potty behavior and also other intimate behaviors.:ehh: I wasn’t aware that Hamas or the president of Iran were spokespeople for Islam.
What seems to be bothering you, jen fla, is just politics. Not religion.
yes, islam is bad. It has proven to have a degenerative effect when the muslims have either wiped out the dhimmi (subjugated ones), or after a century or so of their rule which stymies any type of personal growth or any type of growth in a society.
R
R_not
Guest
peace in islam means an entirely different thing, as does some other notable words.
muslim definitions for words:
peace - death, conversion or subjugation (dhimmittude) for infidels
**peace treaty **- can only last for 10 years and is to be broken at anytime when the muslims are rearmed/regrouped
aggressor - only infidels are aggressors. Any actions (violent) by muslims is their right per the koran
oppressor - only infidels are oppressors if they do not allow themselves to be subjugated by muslims/sharia law
(modern day) Crusader, or islamophobes - Christians who figured out what islam is all about and are telling others the facts of islam
honor - following the koran’s teaching on this - and if it includes beating, raping, stoning, hanging, enslavement, - that is ok - it is what the koran says to do and it is considered an honor for women to endure these actions.
Innocent - only muslims are innocent. No infidel is considered to be innocent.
Attack - no infidel is to attack a muslim. If/when they do such an arrogant thing then no matter what muslims have done, are doing, to them - they attack first.
deportation - sending out their saudi trained jihadists.
persecution - us not letting them practice their ‘religion’ and subjugate or kill us. us telling the truth about islam and us telling them to keep their ‘religion’ to themselves and stop pushing it down our throats.
martyr - those who die while trying to kill non-muslims
muslim definitions for words:
peace - death, conversion or subjugation (dhimmittude) for infidels
**peace treaty **- can only last for 10 years and is to be broken at anytime when the muslims are rearmed/regrouped
aggressor - only infidels are aggressors. Any actions (violent) by muslims is their right per the koran
oppressor - only infidels are oppressors if they do not allow themselves to be subjugated by muslims/sharia law
(modern day) Crusader, or islamophobes - Christians who figured out what islam is all about and are telling others the facts of islam
honor - following the koran’s teaching on this - and if it includes beating, raping, stoning, hanging, enslavement, - that is ok - it is what the koran says to do and it is considered an honor for women to endure these actions.
Innocent - only muslims are innocent. No infidel is considered to be innocent.
Attack - no infidel is to attack a muslim. If/when they do such an arrogant thing then no matter what muslims have done, are doing, to them - they attack first.
deportation - sending out their saudi trained jihadists.
persecution - us not letting them practice their ‘religion’ and subjugate or kill us. us telling the truth about islam and us telling them to keep their ‘religion’ to themselves and stop pushing it down our throats.
martyr - those who die while trying to kill non-muslims
I
inJESUS
Guest
The word peace
in islam (i.e., salaam) is the same as peace in Judaism (i.e., shalom).
D
dzheremi
Guest
Can I ask for you to enlighten me then, please? What is it that most English-speakers think of when they talk about peace, and how is the Muslim or Jewish conception of it different?
I don’t start Arabic classes until September, so perhaps you know something I don’t, but I wouldn’t then assume that you know something more than a native Arabic speaker like inJESUS does about what Arabic/Semitic language speakers have in mind when they speak of peace (I reject this kind of “hard” linguistic determinism, anyway, but that is for another thread).
That’s good. From what I have seen of your posts, Sister Amy, you are a good person and I did not mean to imply that you yourself in any way condoned these actions. My sincere apologies if you are offended. I brought them up to illustrate that to give Muhammad a pass because he was at war is one thing (it’s a thing I don’t agree with, but I respect the fact that you do), but the acts of those inspired by their prophet to take up arms in the modern day in places where there IS no war against Islam is killing many Muslims (and of course non-Muslims, though it is somewhat more difficult to get many Muslims to care about that), so to say “well, people get killed in wars” is in a way brushing off the consequences of the prophet’s example, even if you feel his actions entirely justified. It is no doubt a problem inherent in Islam’s lack of centralized authority, which I don’t expect you to have to defend or abandon, but I for one would be much more accepting of Muslim claims of “peace” if Muslims were more proactive in dealing with the people who, through their apparently twisted application of Qur’anic scripture, were actually killing their own communities, as well as mine and others’.
Basically, I want Muslims to stop justifying everything by saying “we were/are at war”, because apparently individual Muslims can decide that Islam commands that they be at war even with each other, and there is precious little outcry from anyone regarding these issues, as Muslims seem more eager to defend their own right to murder each other and others than to address the very real problems of violent ideology among their own.
And, in anticipation of possible (and correct) responses, YES, to some extent the horrible condition in which the Muslim world finds itself is due to western meddling. I don’t excuse any of that. I firmly believe, for instance, that we would not be dealing with an “Islamic Republic of Iran” had the CIA not engineered the overthrow of Mossadeq back in the 1950s. There are many more examples where that comes from, unfortunately. However, not only do I not think it is that simple (the West is not the cause of or solution to everything), but as I mentioned in a response to the poster Harris in this very thread, plenty of people have felt exploited by outside forces and not reacted by killing one another. Nobody is to be excused for committing atrocities because they are at war. Not Christians, not Muslims, not anybody.
M
medallionsnijme
Guest
Quote Sister Amy:
*This is what the Qur’an says:
(5:45) And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
It goes on to explain that even though this was ordained for the Children of Israel, they were then sent Jesus, the son of Mary, with the Gospel, to confirm the Torah and provide guidance and light. It also says that there is a “law and a method” for each of these groups. *
sister amy, please understand that i dont think YOU are nincompoopery, but i think that the islamic laws are full of it. chock full of it. (side question (and sorry if i missed it previously): have you always been muslim? when i talk about islam, its not like im just talking out of an orifice, im talking from my own experience as well because i was a muslim once upon a time.**)so what you just stated was: you can go and do the eye for an eye thing, that its “legal retribution”, and yet you can forgive and its an expiation. the last bit of that paragraph, “And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.”, so does that mean its okay by God’s standards to justifiably go commit a crime against someone else because they did it to you and that its better to go and do as you were done unto?? it seems so childish! (and we wonder why theres so much turmoil in the middle east! nobody can get along! its like poorly behaved children, seriously! when is someone going to grow up and just say, look, i forgive you (like in the new law that Christ taught) for _whatever and now lets all get along and do our best with our differences!"hmm i think hell will freeze over first…too much pride…) but then you go on to say that "even though this was ordained for the Children of Israel, they were then sent Jesus, the son of Mary, with the Gospel, to confirm the Torah and provide guidance and light… so then if Jesus is bringing the light and guidance then wouldnt muslims get the point that hmmm eye for an eye doesnt count anymore, especially since Christ already said that that law is moot? apparently muhammed decided to reinstate the previous law as befitting to his cause of killing everyone who wasnt muslim? its an awful sneaky way to justify the mass-genocides that occur all over the world for just precisely everything that R_Not has already posted. seems as though the laws that everyone else tries to abide by in the world doesnt apply to muslims cos they have their own “superior” law. sure, forgive if you want but God won’t judge you by that.
my bottom line is that i have found absolutely zip, zero, nada, niente, ma fi, zilch peace from islam regarless of what derivative “islam” means. “surrender” i believe would be a more accurate term than “peace”. they may be related by the root, however ‘surrender’ (as in surrender can give you peace or something along those lines), and i agree that we should all surrender to God’s will, but if we surrender to God’s will and we Christians say “surrender to God’s will means forgiving always” and the muslims believe that surrender to God’s will means “kill anyone whos not what you are”, then what do you truly believe in your heart would give you (and the world) PEACE - SALAAM? do you see what im saying? “surrender” can have a much more broad use…
personally, i believe that islam is a mask for something that is hidden. that it is a deceptive religion that has a facade of appearing good but once one looks at **it from an outside angle, its evil. please note that i dont think that all muslims are evil, as ive stated before, i believe they are misguided by false teachings
*This is what the Qur’an says:
(5:45) And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
It goes on to explain that even though this was ordained for the Children of Israel, they were then sent Jesus, the son of Mary, with the Gospel, to confirm the Torah and provide guidance and light. It also says that there is a “law and a method” for each of these groups. *
sister amy, please understand that i dont think YOU are nincompoopery, but i think that the islamic laws are full of it. chock full of it. (side question (and sorry if i missed it previously): have you always been muslim? when i talk about islam, its not like im just talking out of an orifice, im talking from my own experience as well because i was a muslim once upon a time.**)so what you just stated was: you can go and do the eye for an eye thing, that its “legal retribution”, and yet you can forgive and its an expiation. the last bit of that paragraph, “And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.”, so does that mean its okay by God’s standards to justifiably go commit a crime against someone else because they did it to you and that its better to go and do as you were done unto?? it seems so childish! (and we wonder why theres so much turmoil in the middle east! nobody can get along! its like poorly behaved children, seriously! when is someone going to grow up and just say, look, i forgive you (like in the new law that Christ taught) for _whatever and now lets all get along and do our best with our differences!"hmm i think hell will freeze over first…too much pride…) but then you go on to say that "even though this was ordained for the Children of Israel, they were then sent Jesus, the son of Mary, with the Gospel, to confirm the Torah and provide guidance and light… so then if Jesus is bringing the light and guidance then wouldnt muslims get the point that hmmm eye for an eye doesnt count anymore, especially since Christ already said that that law is moot? apparently muhammed decided to reinstate the previous law as befitting to his cause of killing everyone who wasnt muslim? its an awful sneaky way to justify the mass-genocides that occur all over the world for just precisely everything that R_Not has already posted. seems as though the laws that everyone else tries to abide by in the world doesnt apply to muslims cos they have their own “superior” law. sure, forgive if you want but God won’t judge you by that.
my bottom line is that i have found absolutely zip, zero, nada, niente, ma fi, zilch peace from islam regarless of what derivative “islam” means. “surrender” i believe would be a more accurate term than “peace”. they may be related by the root, however ‘surrender’ (as in surrender can give you peace or something along those lines), and i agree that we should all surrender to God’s will, but if we surrender to God’s will and we Christians say “surrender to God’s will means forgiving always” and the muslims believe that surrender to God’s will means “kill anyone whos not what you are”, then what do you truly believe in your heart would give you (and the world) PEACE - SALAAM? do you see what im saying? “surrender” can have a much more broad use…
personally, i believe that islam is a mask for something that is hidden. that it is a deceptive religion that has a facade of appearing good but once one looks at **it from an outside angle, its evil. please note that i dont think that all muslims are evil, as ive stated before, i believe they are misguided by false teachings
M
medallionsnijme
Guest
i must say that another facet why i believe islam is bad is because they dont honor what being a woman truly means. the men take no responsiblity for their actions - and even if they were the “judges panel” is still biased because it will be made up of men, thus letting them off the hook for their crimes.
to be a woman in Christianity means that we are equal to men. nobody is our superior. there are certain things that fit the role for husbands as well as wives. they are complementary to each other and help each other be everything that they are called to be. to be a woman means to be strong, supportive, willing to sacrifice yourself and your own desires for the good of your family, willing to nurture your family emotionally, physically, and spiritually. the Blessed Virgin Mary is the perfect example of what it means to truly be a woman. St. Joseph is the perfect example for the way a husband should treat his wife. He had nothing but utmost respect for his holy Spouse. He was a good, upright man, who worked to support his precious family. He would never dream of harming his Wife or Child emotionally or physically because he loved Her, he cherished Her, and he respected Her. if a man feels it necessary to hit a woman its because he is a coward. heres my proof to back up my statement:
“’'As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them”- Sura 4:34 ".
they want to keep women in fear to control them for their own “good will” and at their own leisure and pleasure! as a woman i am horrified by the notion that that is considered a good thing! what hurts me, truly, Sister Amy, is that you believe its right. if that is right, where is your respect for yourself as a woman who was created equal to man? i tell you what, if any man tried to do what the qu’ran said id stick a frying pan into his face so hard hed be seeing out the back of his head and then i would kick him out!
i am not a radical feminist by any stretch of the imagination, nor do i consider myself a “regular” feminist, however, i do believe in respecting women for what they are as mans equal. not one sex over the other, but equal.
rotfl: men could never give birth to a child, they would be complaining and crying and hooting and hollering for MONTHS and we women would never hear the end of it.)
try this link and tell me where the good is in that:
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics
/islam/gislam.htm
and this im pasting is from another link:
(catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/woslam.htm)
"Islam & Degradation of Woman
Women are totally at men’s disposal:
''As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them"- Sura 4:34
Islamism is on the increase in the world, attracting converts among both men and women. However, according to reports, by Betty Mahmoody for example, women are not well respected in Moslem society. To get a clear picture, the best way is to refer to the actual text rather than to interpretations which are extraneous to it. What does their Koran have to say?
“Your wives are as a tilth unto you (to cultivate); So approach your tilth when or how ye will: But do some good act for your souls beforehand.” (S II 223)
Polygamy is authorized:
“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.” (S IV 3)
An adulterous woman must be chastised:
“If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.” (S IV 15)
It is lawful to put away one’s wife:
“Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. (…) A divorce is only permissible twice; after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms or separate with kindness. (…). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, remarry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her.” (S II 225-230)
Objection:
Is it not to be hoped that the Koran will be read in the future in a more moderate and less fundamentalist light?
Answer:
No, this book and the religion which it represents are static and unchangeable, as the following quotations
serve to prove:
“So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (Establish) Allah’s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: No change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.” (S XXX 30)
“But no change wilt thou find in Allah’s way (of dealing): No turning off wilt thou find in Allah’s way (of dealing).” (S XXXV 43)
“(This was Our) way with the apostles We sent before thee: thou wilt find no change in Our ways.” (S XVII 77)
Conclusion:
The Koran can truly be said to lower woman and her dignity.
Note: All the above quotations have been drawn from: The Qur-an, with full Arabic text; by A. Yusuf Ali; Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publisher & Bookseller, Kashmiri Bazar, Lahore, Pakistan, 1975. The ‘S’ signifies the Sura, for easy references consult the number after the abbreviation ‘S’."
to be a woman in Christianity means that we are equal to men. nobody is our superior. there are certain things that fit the role for husbands as well as wives. they are complementary to each other and help each other be everything that they are called to be. to be a woman means to be strong, supportive, willing to sacrifice yourself and your own desires for the good of your family, willing to nurture your family emotionally, physically, and spiritually. the Blessed Virgin Mary is the perfect example of what it means to truly be a woman. St. Joseph is the perfect example for the way a husband should treat his wife. He had nothing but utmost respect for his holy Spouse. He was a good, upright man, who worked to support his precious family. He would never dream of harming his Wife or Child emotionally or physically because he loved Her, he cherished Her, and he respected Her. if a man feels it necessary to hit a woman its because he is a coward. heres my proof to back up my statement:
“’'As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them”- Sura 4:34 ".
they want to keep women in fear to control them for their own “good will” and at their own leisure and pleasure! as a woman i am horrified by the notion that that is considered a good thing! what hurts me, truly, Sister Amy, is that you believe its right. if that is right, where is your respect for yourself as a woman who was created equal to man? i tell you what, if any man tried to do what the qu’ran said id stick a frying pan into his face so hard hed be seeing out the back of his head and then i would kick him out!
i am not a radical feminist by any stretch of the imagination, nor do i consider myself a “regular” feminist, however, i do believe in respecting women for what they are as mans equal. not one sex over the other, but equal.
rotfl: men could never give birth to a child, they would be complaining and crying and hooting and hollering for MONTHS and we women would never hear the end of it.)try this link and tell me where the good is in that:
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics
/islam/gislam.htm
and this im pasting is from another link:
(catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/woslam.htm)
"Islam & Degradation of Woman
Women are totally at men’s disposal:
''As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them"- Sura 4:34
Islamism is on the increase in the world, attracting converts among both men and women. However, according to reports, by Betty Mahmoody for example, women are not well respected in Moslem society. To get a clear picture, the best way is to refer to the actual text rather than to interpretations which are extraneous to it. What does their Koran have to say?
“Your wives are as a tilth unto you (to cultivate); So approach your tilth when or how ye will: But do some good act for your souls beforehand.” (S II 223)
Polygamy is authorized:
“If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.” (S IV 3)
An adulterous woman must be chastised:
“If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.” (S IV 15)
It is lawful to put away one’s wife:
“Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing. (…) A divorce is only permissible twice; after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms or separate with kindness. (…). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, remarry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her.” (S II 225-230)
Objection:
Is it not to be hoped that the Koran will be read in the future in a more moderate and less fundamentalist light?
Answer:
No, this book and the religion which it represents are static and unchangeable, as the following quotations
serve to prove:
“So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith: (Establish) Allah’s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: No change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard Religion: but most among mankind understand not.” (S XXX 30)
“But no change wilt thou find in Allah’s way (of dealing): No turning off wilt thou find in Allah’s way (of dealing).” (S XXXV 43)
“(This was Our) way with the apostles We sent before thee: thou wilt find no change in Our ways.” (S XVII 77)
Conclusion:
The Koran can truly be said to lower woman and her dignity.
Note: All the above quotations have been drawn from: The Qur-an, with full Arabic text; by A. Yusuf Ali; Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, Publisher & Bookseller, Kashmiri Bazar, Lahore, Pakistan, 1975. The ‘S’ signifies the Sura, for easy references consult the number after the abbreviation ‘S’."
A
Angelos
Guest
The word Islam is not linguistically or theologically associated with the notion of peace although Muslim scholars strive to make Islam mean peace in addition to surrender. Muslims squeeze every damp cloud to get new meanings for their religion, which is generally defined by non-Muslims as an ideology promoting aggression and belligerence. Thus, I would not be surprised if Muslims found an association between the word Islam and tolerance/respect soon.
The authors of the Koran did not associate Islam with peace for sure. Although the Islamic scripture tries to confine the notion of surrender to the followers of Mohammad’s ideology, it never does the same for the notion of peace. The word Muslim does not necessarily denote or connote peaceful people in Mohammad’s false bible.
IMPO, ISLAM means SLAM the door on Christ’s truth.
K
KenEOTE
Guest
how about this… Islam is neither good nor bad… It is poor teaching that is easily used for evil? just thought I would take it to a new level.
I
inJESUS
Guest
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