Islam is BAD!!!

[R_not]

We don’t, kindly refer to this post.

Why do Christians NEED to even have statues and images in their places of worship??

Can’t you love and worship the Lord without any statues??.. Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples certainly did NOT need any statues and graven images whatsoever when they were worshipping the Lord.

WE DON’T - READ THE GODZILLION NUMBER OF POSTS STATING THAT!!!

 

[harrypot]

Also what Vatican Bible says is interesting in:
The Prophetic Books
Malachi
Chapter 2
about “The priests are sharply reproved for neglecting their covenant. The evil of marrying with idolaters: and too easily putting away their wives.”:

3
1** Lo, I will deprive you of the shoulder and I will strew dung in your faces, The dung of your feasts, and you will be carried off with it.**

*1 [3] I will deprive you of the shoulder: this part of a sacrificial animal, allotted by the law (⇒ Deut 18:3) to the priests, will be withheld from them. *

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PV4.HTM#$2V5

 

[harrypot]

the hatred of the Quran and later hadith happened before all these…the futuhat wars as well were not defensive…there is hatred simply for not believing in Muhammad and for believing Jesus is the Son of God…according to the Quran, we are the worst of creature and we will rot in hell simply for unbelief in Muhammad…the above mentionned 4 points do not even apply yet…

 

[Angelos]

Why do Christians NEED to even have statues and images in their places of worship??

Can’t you love and worship the Lord without any statues??.. Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples certainly did NOT need any statues and graven images whatsoever when they were worshipping the Lord.

Since YOU are the one who SUPPOSES that Christians need statues to worship the Lord, no Christian here can be expected to answer this ridiculous question of yours.

Let me pose a similar question to yours so as to make you figure out your mistake:

Why do you Muslims NEED to worship the CUBE (idol) in Mecca?

I hope you got it.

 

[Angelos]

Also nothing of what Jesus (of Christian Gospel) said can be said about Muhammad.

It is worth noting here that the total numbers of WOES of Jesus are one less than in the most Bibles because Vatican Bible tells us that:

Even if Christians think that this MISSING Verse is not really said by Jesus though it is found in some manuscripts, and it is an INTERPOALTION, then whatever beautiful WOES of Jesus found in the most BIBLES tells very sharply that those Jews of Jesus’ time cannot flee from the judgement of Gehenna (hell).

Raul aka happyday, welcome back to the forum. I hope you will not repeat your former mistakes and thus be allowed to stay longer. LOL

Your post is irrelevant as usual. Your so-called manuscript evidence once more fails to prove your theories.

What are you trying to compare here? Comparing a pagan Arab that hated Jews and attacked them because of their disbelief with the Jewish Messiah and Son of God, who denounced Jewish authorities as the judge of human souls, makes no sense to me.

You must find someone else to sell your false analogies.

 

[Angelos]

inJesus, you are spreading ignorance about Islam. Please see:

**Even though you have given the yousuf Ali translation but we have to correct it as follows:

Those of the people of the book who are enemies of Islam (Kafir) and the polytheists will be in hellfire, to dwell therein for a long time. They are the worst kind of people.**

The word Kaafir is there. Kaafir is not a simple peaceful non-believer. He/she is a violent hostile disbeliever.
So tell me why the Quran should not call them the worst creature if they are bent upon enmity of religion. They should be in hell. Same goes for the enemies of the christians. They will be kafir and will be in hellfire. You have miscarried the true meaning of the verse 98:6 of the Quran.

Could you please cite that verse in its original language so that inJESUS can say if your allegation about the definition of the word Kafir is true? I want to be sure if the verse has the word hostile disbeliever as you suggest.

Please prove us that the word Kafir denotes “hostile and aggressive disbeliever” in your scripture.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

… could a knowledgeable muslim please comment on this hadith? .

I wrote earlier how Prophet (p) did not take any personal revenge when he conquered Macca. He had 10 thousands armend soldiers with him , yet he forgave the killers of his daughter , uncle & others .

This one incident in enough to prove that Prophet (p) personally forgave all the sinners. As a ruler , he needed to do justice to others , establish peace in the society. Punishing sinners is one of the ways to bring peace ; otherwise sinners will be encouraged to repeat the sins & others will follow them & innocents will suffer. That’s the reason few criminals got death penalty.

Those who leave Islam & don’t do any harm to Muslims won’t get any death penalty . Those non Muslims who are not fighting against Muslims or not committing any blasphemy will also be safe .

Those who were guilty of commiting blasphemy like the poet Kaab who wrote nasty poems against God , God’s last Prophet & other innocent Muslim deserved death penatly.

Jews in the past asked Prophet to do justice with them by judging regarding Torah. Prophet did to them what is prescribed in Torah / Taurat about adultery , war criminals , war prisoners etc.

Before condemning Quran , pl. read Jew’s & Christians holy books about the various punishments . If u don’t want to follow the commands of God , that’s up to u , don’t blame Muslims if we want to follow our holy book .

God teaches us to protect the innocents including non Muslims. Their prayers places will also be safe . Here is a related link.

Protection of Non-Muslims’ Places of Worship

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, in his letter to Abu Ubaydah ibn Al-Jarrah (may Allah be pleased with them both) wrote:

“Prevent Muslims from wronging or causing harm to them (non-Muslims) or taking their property illegally.”

…In the reign of `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the religious freedom of the citizens of Ilya (Jerusalem) and the sanctity of their synagogues and places of worship were confirmed:

“This is the protection which the slave-servant of Allah, `Umar, the Commander of the Believers, extends to the people of Ilya: The safeguarding of their lives, properties, churches, crosses, and of their entire community.

Their churches cannot be occupied, demolished, or damaged, nor are their crosses or anything belonging to them to be touched.

They will never be forced to abandon their religion, nor will they be oppressed. None of the Jews will live with them in Ilya….” (At-Tabari, Tarikh, Vol III, p. 609, ed. Dar Al-Ma`arif, Egypt.)

Khalid Ibn Al-Waleed, in his covenant with the People of `Anat, wrote: “They are allowed to ring the bells at any time of the day or night, except in the time of the Islamic prayer times.

They are allowed to bear their crosses in their festivals.” (Abu Yusuf, Al-Kharaj, p. 146)

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544972&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

I wrote earlier how Prophet (p) did not take any personal revenge when he conquered Macca. He had 10 thousands armend soldiers with him , yet he forgave the killers of his daughter , uncle & others .

This one incident in enough to prove that Prophet (p) personally forgave all the sinners. As a ruler , he needed to do justice to others , establish peace in the society. Punishing sinners is one of the ways to bring peace ; otherwise sinners will be encouraged to repeat the sins & others will follow them & innocents will suffer. That’s the reason few criminals got death penalty.

Those who leave Islam & don’t do any harm to Muslims won’t get any death penalty . Those non Muslims who are not fighting against Muslims or not committing any blasphemy will also be safe .

Those who were guilty of commiting blasphemy like the poet Kaab who wrote nasty poems against God , God’s last Prophet & other innocent Muslim deserved death penatly.

Jews in the past asked Prophet to do justice with them by judging regarding Torah. Prophet did to them what is prescribed in Torah / Taurat about adultery , war criminals , war prisoners etc.

Before condemning Quran , pl. read Jew’s & Christians holy books about the various punishments . If u don’t want to follow the commands of God , that’s up to u , don’t blame Muslims if we want to follow our holy book .

God teaches us to protect the innocents including non Muslims. Their prayers places will also be safe . Here is a related link.

Protection of Non-Muslims’ Places of Worship

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, in his letter to Abu Ubaydah ibn Al-Jarrah (may Allah be pleased with them both) wrote:

“Prevent Muslims from wronging or causing harm to them (non-Muslims) or taking their property illegally.”

…In the reign of `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the religious freedom of the citizens of Ilya (Jerusalem) and the sanctity of their synagogues and places of worship were confirmed:

“This is the protection which the slave-servant of Allah, `Umar, the Commander of the Believers, extends to the people of Ilya: The safeguarding of their lives, properties, churches, crosses, and of their entire community.

Their churches cannot be occupied, demolished, or damaged, nor are their crosses or anything belonging to them to be touched.

They will never be forced to abandon their religion, nor will they be oppressed. None of the Jews will live with them in Ilya….” (At-Tabari, Tarikh, Vol III, p. 609, ed. Dar Al-Ma`arif, Egypt.)

Khalid Ibn Al-Waleed, in his covenant with the People of `Anat, wrote: “They are allowed to ring the bells at any time of the day or night, except in the time of the Islamic prayer times.

They are allowed to bear their crosses in their festivals.” (Abu Yusuf, Al-Kharaj, p. 146)

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544972&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

I have had enough fun by reading this post. Thanks.

Occupying Christian lands and robbing non-Muslims in the name of Allah for the so-called protection mean tolerance in Islamic context. Muslims are really peaceful to let Christians survive in their countries as slaves. LOL

More, Christian crosses will not be touched and Christian temples will not be demolished after the Islamic invasion, but Christian churches will be confiscated and turned to mosques. LOL Muslims have their peculiar dictionaries, which attach a totally different sense to the words tolerance and peace.

 

[jen_fla]

A Catholic Encyclopedia (The New Advent) says:

“The Church’s legislation on heresy and heretics is often reproached with cruelty and intolerance. Intolerant it is: in fact its raison d’être is intolerance of doctrines subversive of the faith. But such intolerance is essential to all that is, or moves, or lives, for tolerance of destructive elements within the organism amounts to suicide.”
“Medieval people found no fault with the system, in fact heretics had been burned by the populace centuries before the Inquisition became a regular institution. And whenever heretics gained the upper hand, they were never slow in applying the same laws: so the Huguenots in France, the Hussites in Bohemia, the Calvinists in Geneva, the Elizabethan statesmen and the Puritans in England.”

Toleration came in only when faith went out; lenient measures were resorted to only where the power to apply more severe measures was wanting. The embers of the Kulturkampf in Germany still smoulder; the separation and confiscation laws and the ostracism of Catholics in France are the scandal of the day. Christ said: “Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). The history of heresy verifies this prediction and shows, moreover, that the greater number of the victims of the sword is on the side of the faithful adherents of the one Church founded by Christ (see INQUISITION)."

you still have not explained the hadith to me. only muslim woman has made a round about attempt.

what is your point here?

i will say it again, i am intolerant to being tolerant of ideas that say one human being has the right to kill another for their beliefs.

the Church is against it too. there are many threads on this forum regarding the inquisition. please go look them up if you want a better understanding of what happened.

 

[jen_fla]

Muslims believe that there is love that is good… and there is also love that is evil.

Likewise, Muslims believe that there is hatred that is evil… and there is also hatred that is good.

It appears that most Christians believe that all love is good and all hatred is evil.

If I am mistaken here, can Christians then explain what type of love would be considered evil… and what type of hatred can be considered to be good?

Do Christians believe that God is capable of hating?

what love is evil?

are you confusing love with lust?

 

[jen_fla]

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, … Exodus 20:4&5

"Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God." … Leviticus 26:1

Since it is so explicitly stated in the Second Commandment, do Christians believe that God is certainly capable of hating those of His creations who willingly choose to bow down to statues and graven images?

and here we have more diversion tactics. for the last time we do not worship objects. your questions have been answered numerous times and there are many threads that go into detail about this topic. if you really had a genuine interest in learning about this you’d go do some reading.

once again, can someone explain that hadith to me?

 

[jen_fla]

Salaam/ peace;
inJESUS;4096191:

do Christians believe that Muslims will go to heaven ?

maybe some will maybe some won’t. we can’t know for sure. only God can know.

but the Church does teach that, “Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings”.

this is a topic that is really misunderstood my many Christians. please read through this:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

long story short if you hear some Christian yelling that you are going to hell, they obviously are ignorant as to what the Church teaches.

 

[bob0331]

I guess one has to separate an individual Muslim from Islam as a belief system. I would also wonder what you meant by bad?

Are all Muslims or any religion or non religion bad? I would say of course not. There are many fine and noble people of every race, color, creed etc…

That is much different than saying is Islam a bad religion. Well if you are asking in the sense of reconciling man kind with God, the God of Abraham, Jacob, Isaac and the Father of Jesus then yes it is a bad religion. It seems that there is a belief that Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same God. This could not be more farther from the truth. So I believe and the Bible states that any religion that moves us away from Jesus and God is a bad religion.

There is no harmony between the Quran and the old and new testaments of the Holy Bible. Muslims believe that Muhammad was given the Quran word for word by God himself and the reason this was done was to correct the corruption of the Bible. He met the archangel Gabriel in a cave and the Quran was revealed to him, or he was told he was Gods messenger.

So how does one reconcile that with the teachings of the Bible? Muslims do not believe that Jesus was God or part of a triune God. They do not believe Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day. So if Muslims or any religion do not believe in this can we say it is good or holds any truth.

John 3:18 " Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only son."

I think we need to be very careful as believers in Christ in trying to be to inclusive about who and what worships the true and living God. God is very jealous over us and to say that Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, new agers all worship the same God negates entirely what Jesus did for us on the cross.

God Bless

 

[harrypot]

but the Church does teach that, “Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings”.

You mean any person say, a Jew who rejects Jesus forcefully is also saved by Jesus?

In other words a Catholic who is a true follower of Jesus is SAVED and the one who totally disagree and rejects Jesus is also SAVED?

 

[dzheremi]

Do you really not understand the difference between making salvation available and saving everyone regardless of what they believe? The questions you have posed are nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[jen_fla]

Salaam/peace;

I wrote earlier how Prophet (p) did not take any personal revenge when he conquered Macca. He had 10 thousands armend soldiers with him , yet he forgave the killers of his daughter , uncle & others .

This one incident in enough to prove that Prophet (p) personally forgave all the sinners. As a ruler , he needed to do justice to others , establish peace in the society. Punishing sinners is one of the ways to bring peace ; otherwise sinners will be encouraged to repeat the sins & others will follow them & innocents will suffer. That’s the reason few criminals got death penalty.

Those who leave Islam & don’t do any harm to Muslims won’t get any death penalty . ** Those non Muslims who are not fighting against Muslims or not committing any blasphemy will also be safe . **

** Those who were guilty of commiting blasphemy like the poet Kaab who wrote nasty poems against God , God’s last Prophet & other innocent Muslim deserved death penatly. **

WOW and you seem like such a nice person! thank you for demonstrating the non tolerance that islam teaches. death to those that speak out WITH WORDS against mohammed!!!

**dangerous, dangerous, dangerous ideology. **

i hope EVERY person on this forum reads this.

Jews in the past asked Prophet to do justice with them by judging regarding Torah. Prophet did to them what is prescribed in Torah / Taurat about adultery , war criminals , war prisoners etc.

Before condemning Quran , pl. read Jew’s & Christians holy books about the various punishments . If u don’t want to follow the commands of God , that’s up to u , don’t blame Muslims if we want to follow our holy book .

we went over this several times. one last time: those laws from the OT were for the tribe of israel ONLY and for that time period ONLY. you can think we are wrong for believing that, and that of course is your right, but please be educated as to what Christians believe in. also know that if you were to write a poem that sad bad things about Jesus, we would be upset and would probably speak out against it, but if we were to kill you for that we would be going completely against what Jesus’ Church teaches.

God teaches us to protect the innocents including non Muslims. Their prayers places will also be safe . Here is a related link.

Protection of Non-Muslims’ Places of Worship

Umar ibn Al-Khattab, in his letter to Abu Ubaydah ibn Al-Jarrah (may Allah be pleased with them both) wrote:

“Prevent Muslims from wronging or causing harm to them (non-Muslims) or taking their property illegally.”

…In the reign of `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the religious freedom of the citizens of Ilya (Jerusalem) and the sanctity of their synagogues and places of worship were confirmed:

“This is the protection which the slave-servant of Allah, `Umar, the Commander of the Believers, extends to the people of Ilya: The safeguarding of their lives, properties, churches, crosses, and of their entire community.

Their churches cannot be occupied, demolished, or damaged, nor are their crosses or anything belonging to them to be touched.

They will never be forced to abandon their religion, nor will they be oppressed. None of the Jews will live with them in Ilya….” (At-Tabari, Tarikh, Vol III, p. 609, ed. Dar Al-Ma`arif, Egypt.)

Khalid Ibn Al-Waleed, in his covenant with the People of `Anat, wrote: “They are allowed to ring the bells at any time of the day or night, except in the time of the Islamic prayer times.

They are allowed to bear their crosses in their festivals.” (Abu Yusuf, Al-Kharaj, p. 146)

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544972&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

muslim woman i do want to thank you though for being the only muslim or ex-muslim to respond to my inquiry into those two hadiths.

i really appreciate that, but i still don’t see any response to those particular hadiths. it is confusing that in certain instances, mohammed might show incredible mercy and in other instances utter violence.

when mohammed taught mercy, we can all agree that is good, however, how do you answer these particular teachings?

here they are one more time:

Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

Book 38, Number 4349:
Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

 

[jen_fla]

You mean any person say, a Jew who rejects Jesus forcefully is also saved by Jesus?

In other words a Catholic who is a true follower of Jesus is SAVED and the one who totally disagree and rejects Jesus is also SAVED?

you obviously did not read through the link i gave. please do.

peace.

 

[jen_fla]

my apologies to InJesus in post #791. i don’t know what happened with my quoting, but that quote came from muslim woman, not InJesus.

sorry. also want to say what a joy it is to read your posts (you too angelos!). you both always state your counter arguments without losing your cool… something i really need to work on.

 

[harrypot]

long story short if you hear some Christian yelling that you are going to hell, they obviously are ignorant as to what the Church teaches.

You mean no one is going to hell then?

 

[harrypot]

my apologies to InJesus in post #791. i don’t know what happened with my quoting, but that quote came from muslim woman, not InJesus.

sorry. also want to say what a joy it is to read your posts (you too angelos!). you both always state your counter arguments without losing your cool… something i really need to work on.

Was it really necessary to praise and encourage inJESUS, despite the fact that his few posts that I read are very much UNCHRISTIAN and UNCATHOLIC in nature and he appears to me ‘more Catholic than the Pope’? His hatred towards the Muslims (due to his lack of knowledge of Islam and th history of Muslims) is truly ‘REMARKABLE’. Is he a true representative of Catholicism, in your eyes?