Islam is simply not "discussable".

[Keikiolu]

Islam is simply not “discussable”.

Apparently, one can’t have a frank discussion of one’s beliefs that are in opposition to those of Islam.

This may be (is?) because “forum owners” are deathly afraid of moslem explosions. Perhaps “Christian” explosions!?

This may be because such discussions never end in anything but people “screaming” at each other, because they can’t come to an agreement as to what they, mutually, can disagree about, without decending into “You heathen bastard, I hate you…!!!”

Both of these “scenarios” are silly.

If I can’t state what I believe about what YOU believe in frank and accurate ways, then how are we to get to the HEART of the matter about our differences, and find out if we can live with each others differences?

Once again,… as usual,… it comes down to Charity.

I don’t ask “the opposition” to accept what I say, just to accept that I MEAN what I say,… and to accept that I, in kind, accept that you mean what you say, while I needn’t agree to what you say.

So,… if I say, “Islam is false simply because I believe Jesus is one of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and therefore Mamet is NOT who he purports to be, and any “philosophy” based on his teachings are inherently bogus”,…

…I would expect a moslem to say something along the lines of, “This is why I believe that Mamet is what he says he is, and this is why Islam is the true religion, and these things are not a matter for debate, but baseline belief, and would you to like to discuss this other thing about our differing views?”

But what are the odds of this happening…?

Can anyone, on either “side”, actually DO this?

Shall we try, somewhere, if this venue is not conducive to such behavior?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[catsrus]

…I would expect a moslem to say something along the lines of, “This is why I believe that Mamet is what he says he is, and this is why Islam is the true religion, and these things are not a matter for debate, but baseline belief, and would you to like to discuss this other thing about our differing views?”

It would be good if this could happen.
Good luck with that.
If you refuse to conform to their view, you are dismissed as an “infidel” - worthy of death in their opinion.

 

[Keikiolu]

It would be good if this could happen.
Good luck with that.
If you refuse to conform to their view, you are dismissed as an “infidel” - worthy of death in their opinion.

Can’t really argue with you.

I don’t mind being an “infidel” in their eyes, as that is a VERY good description of what I am,… but the jump to “therefore all moslems are obligated to physically kill me” is rather annoying.

Even if the fatwa on me is only that I be shunned, what does that say about the Islamic confidence in “never give up the attempt to convert the infidel” that we hear about?

If they can’t deal with “root disagreement” by way of anything other than violence or utter-closure, how do they expect to gain any respect with those who CAN agree to disagree?

Thus, the stereotype of moslems as either beligerent or isolationist, or both.

You wanna lose that stereotype,… lose the exhibited attitude.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Jayda]

hola,

It is important to be honest with non Catholics about the errors of their ways… just as important as it is to be polite. We cannot sacrifice politeness for truth nor truth for politeness so it is best that we take the time to consider whether those two ships are sailing in the same direction before we speak. The added effort might make things better…

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[Keikiolu]

hola,

It is important to be honest with non Catholics about the errors of their ways… just as important as it is to be polite. We cannot sacrifice politeness for truth nor truth for politeness so it is best that we take the time to consider whether those two ships are sailing in the same direction before we speak. The added effort might make things better…

Dominus Vobiscum

If politeness produces only silence, then we must be either patient or impolite.

Sometimes it’s better to be patient.

Sometimes it’s better for be impolite.

Was Jesus always “polite”…?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Jayda]

If politeness produces only silence, then we must be either patient or impolite.

Sometimes it’s better to be patient.

Sometimes it’s better for be impolite.

Was Jesus always “polite”…?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

hola,

I think we are saying the same thing…

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
If politeness produces only silence, then we must be either patient or impolite.

Sometimes it’s better to be patient.

Sometimes it’s better for be impolite.

Was Jesus always “polite”…?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

hola,

I think we are saying the same thing…

Not quite the same thing.

You said, “We cannot sacrifice politeness for truth nor truth for politeness…”

I contend that sometimes politeness must be sacrificed FOR truth.

(( Actually, Truth must NEVER be sacrificed for ANY reason, but prudence may mitgate HOW a truth is presented to be more polite than otherwise it would be…! ))

That is the very meaning of martyrdom.

Politeness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder,… and sometimes the speaker of truth is polite in their estimation but impolite in the beholders estimation.

You didn’t actually answer my question:

“Was Jesus always polite?”

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Jayda]

Not quite the same thing.

You said, “We cannot sacrifice politeness for truth nor truth for politeness…”

I contend that sometimes politeness must be sacrificed FOR truth.

That is the very meaning of martyrdom.

Politeness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder,… and sometimes the speaker of truth is polite in their estimation but impolite in the beholders estimation.

You didn’t actually answer my question:

“Was Jesus always polite?”

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

hola,

Jesus did not speak the truth arrogantly and he did not hide behind the truth to say something hurtful out of anger against the people he spoke to.

Sometimes people say things that are true, but could be said better… if we are presented with an opportunity to speak the truth with a clean intent we must take it. I believe Jesus did this…

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[Keikiolu]

hola,

Jesus did not speak the truth arrogantly and he did not hide behind the truth to say something hurtful out of anger against the people he spoke to.

Are you confusing “impolite” with “hurtful”…?

They are not equivalent. I can be AMAZINGLY impolite while not being hurtful in the least.

I can also do the obverse, but that’s just being nastily sarcastic,… and I reserve that for only my closest friends.

Sometimes people say things that are true, but could be said better… if we are presented with an opportunity to speak the truth with a clean intent we must take it. I believe Jesus did this…

Dominus Vobiscum

Hear hear…!

But what happens when someone takes ANYTHING you say as being “impolite” (or even hurtful) while demanding that you have a meaningful discussion with them?

That is the problem with moslems that I’ve found. They DEMAND to be “included” in the dialogue, while being inappropriately “sensitive” at the same time.

Thus, the premise of this thread.

Islam is simply not discussable, and will only be discussed between non-moslems, which doesn’t make for much insight into how Christians and moslems can “get along”.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Islam is simply not “discussable”.

Apparently, one can’t have a frank discussion of one’s beliefs that are in opposition to those of Islam.

This may be (is?) because “forum owners” are deathly afraid of moslem explosions. Perhaps “Christian” explosions!?

This may be because such discussions never end in anything but people “screaming” at each other, because they can’t come to an agreement as to what they, mutually, can disagree about, without decending into “You heathen bastard, I hate you…!!!”

Both of these “scenarios” are silly.

If I can’t state what I believe about what YOU believe in frank and accurate ways, then how are we to get to the HEART of the matter about our differences, and find out if we can live with each others differences?

Once again,… as usual,… it comes down to Charity.

I don’t ask “the opposition” to accept what I say, just to accept that I MEAN what I say,… and to accept that I, in kind, accept that you mean what you say, while I needn’t agree to what you say.

So,… if I say,** “Islam is false simply because I believe Jesus is one of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and therefore Mamet is NOT who he purports to be, and any “philosophy” based on his teachings are inherently bogus”,.**.

…I would expect a moslem to say something along the lines of, “This is why I believe that Mamet is what he says he is, and this is why Islam is the true religion, and these things are not a matter for debate, but baseline belief, and would you to like to discuss this other thing about our differing views?”

But what are the odds of this happening…?

Can anyone, on either “side”, actually DO this?

Shall we try, somewhere, if this venue is not conducive to such behavior?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

similarly i can negate your statement by stating

“IChristianity is false simply because I believe Jesus is not one of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and therefore The church’s teachings are false and dont purport who he is, and any philosophy” based on church teachings are inherently bogus"

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

I tend to not participate in interfaith discussions because i dont have the patience to go through 8 pages of thread a mile in length each.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you Keikiolu;

So,… if I say, “Islam is false simply because I believe Jesus is one of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity, and therefore Mamet is NOT who he purports to be, and any “philosophy” based on his teachings are inherently bogus”,…

If I was a Muslim I would be offended by what you have said, who is Mamet? Their Prophet is Muhammad pbuh. You would not get a Muslim talking about Jesus in the way you talk about their prophet, they have a deep respect for all the prophets.

I am a Catholic and I can truthfully say that I have been shown respect on two Muslim forums that I have posted on in the last year. There is obviously disagreement but I sense there is the room for a greater interfaith friendship despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith relations

Eric

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

I remeber listening to an Indian Islamic scholar on you tube one time and one of the first things he did was recognize that with respects to Islam and Christianity their can only be four possbilities to truth.

1. The bible is true and the quran is false
2. the Quran is true and the bible is false
3. The Quran is true and so is the bible
4. Bothe the bible and Quran are false

until we as a whole can recognize these premises whther we like them or not we cant not further dialogue.

 

[cestusdei]

I go with door number 1.

 

[ChristIsTheWay]

I go with door number 1.

Same here, door number 1!

 

[Auriel]

Greetings and peace be with you Keikiolu;

If I was a Muslim I would be offended by what you have said, who is Mamet? Their Prophet is Muhammad pbuh. You would not get a Muslim talking about Jesus in the way you talk about their prophet, they have a deep respect for all the prophets.

I am a Catholic and I can truthfully say that I have been shown respect on two Muslim forums that I have posted on in the last year. There is obviously disagreement but I sense there is the room for a greater interfaith friendship despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith relations

Eric

I agree, I am also a member of an interfaith Islam Group. They have never insulted me and I have never once heard the name Jesus uttered without saying (P)eace and (B)lessings (U)pon (H)im. And they sense when someone has already made their mind up to hate them all. I remember one Muslima asking if one of members was really a christian, or was just playing around. She did not believe that he really was because she said Jesus would never act like that. He was not behaving Christ like. OUCH!!! And true might I add.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you Auriel;

Thanks for your reply, there is one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen and the God I pray to created people who are Muslims, Christians, Hindu and atheist. Regardless of what any of us might believe the same God hears the prayers of Muslim, Christian, Hindu, and Jew.

In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith relations

Eric

 

[cestusdei]

How nice. In the spirit of interfaith dialogue I will go to Saudi Arabia and offer a public Mass. Afterward I will hand out free literature that explains Christianity. I am sure I will be greeted with open arms and treated with great respect…as they chop my head off.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Greetings and peace be with you cestusdei;

How nice. In the spirit of interfaith dialogue I will go to

Saudi Arabia and offer a public Mass. Afterward I will hand out free literature that explains Christianity. I am sure I will be greeted with open arms and treated with great respect…as they chop my head off.
A Muslim might have got the same reception if he offered up his Friday prayers in public at the time of the Inquisitions.

It may not be possible to have meaningful interfaith dialogue by offering up a public Mass in Saudi Arabia but there are possibly other ways Muslims and Christians could talk respectfully together in Saudi.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

A Muslim might have got the same reception if he offered up his Friday prayers in public at the time of the Inquisitions…

Yep! And I suppose prior to the Inquisition the muslims always welcomed christians with open arms.

Get over it, Eric; The inquisition is history. Everybody has moved on since then… Everybody - except for a few trouble makers.

Islam is simply not “discussable”.

I think you’re right.

I sometimes stay away from Islamic threads on this forum, because they invariably become so stupid.

But other times I just get absorbed into them because I want to reach out and converse with muslims. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t so empathetic towards them.