Islam & Muslim bashing thread?

[R_not]

morning_Star… No body blesses except The God. And Jesus is not The God. But you be happy with the good remarks from your friends. Enjoy !
You have mixed up things. That is your good things with the bad too. It is true that you look for bad things in the Quran. Of course there are many good things in Quran too. But You.all look for the bad things. that is the Bad Habit.

In return I have to do the same with your bible, whereever I can see something wrong. And there is a lot of wrong things. I never start any argument accusing any one about bible or Jesus. It is always done from your side. In return I could be patient and quiet and not say anything.

But you people are in bad habits for a long time. You want your stuff to be greased on both sides. You want all the good things for yourself and all the bad things for others. That is a bad attitude. You stop reporting the bad things from Quran then I will also refrain from pointing out the mistakes / faults of bible. It is simple equation. Agreed?

That is not true. I only started reading it after I read some history of the Middle East and wondered why muslims were always on a killing spree. Before that I wondered ‘why do they hate us’ after the WTC attack on 9/11 (buiding full of civilians only) - and why did they bomb embassies (more civilians), and after reading some of the history I wondered why did they subjugate people and what was the difference between that and slavery (not much!), etc. Why are all the wars in this world all have muslims involved?! Why was it that Israel kept trying to draw up peace agreements and the Palestinians breaking them?

I was also taken by surprise when saudi muslims were holding a telethon as we do except that when we hold them the money goes to sick people, to research to help sick people, or to poor people. The saudis were holding it to fund the war against the Israelis. On TV no less! Then all the muslim charities that our government found that were doing the same thing! What kind of a ‘religion’ is this? What kind of a society, societies, are these that only have one thing in mind - war?!?!?!

I kept asking those types of questions and the history never really answered them so I was forced to read the koran. gag. It is a book with no logic in it in the order of its surahs and the repetition of ‘allah said this or that’, or ‘mohammed said this or that’, and why did one sentence sound peaceful while the next one wanted people to either be killed or subjugated, and then the enslavement of people - a religion that said to do all these things - what is going on here?!

It was the koran itself that lends itself to negativity. There is nothing spiritual or uplifting in it. It tells men that they are to only be concerned with their most basic physical desires and that they don’t have to be concerned with anyone else’s physical - or mental - well being. In fact, they could do whatever they wanted to anyone not a muslim and their own women they could stone, or beat up, or do whatever to if they felt she wasn’t subservient enough.

things started to come together and really didn’t come together until muslims like you cemented my thoughts together. You, sister amy, muslim women and others have told me that there is no logic in islam. My next question is ‘how can supposedly peaceful muslims follow a guy such as mohammed?’. I really do not have the answer to that one. I can understand it in muslim countries where they might be fearful for their lives and the lives of their children - but I cannot understand it for the ones who claim to be peaceful here in the West (the USA, Europe, Canada, etc), or basically anywhere that is not under sharia law!

Then I figure I will probably never understand and so I don’t go any further with that question.

I still want you to prove that the Bible was corrupted NOT using the koran and hadiths though. But, I know I will never get an answer to that as many will never get answers to valid questions.

 

[cathopologist]

Just for the record; the term “Dark Ages” is a very derogatory term and Muslims are fond of using the word to paint the (European) Middle Ages as a time of backwardness.

 

[ralphinal]

Just for the record; the term “Dark Ages” is a very derogatory term and Muslims are fond of using the word to paint the Middle Ages as a time of backwardness.

I thought they were called that because it was a dark time in europe when they were threatend by the Muslims and Spain was ruled by them.

 

[cathopologist]

I thought they were called that because it was a dark time in europe when they were threatend by the Muslims and Spain was ruled by them.

Heh. That could be it too.

Honestly, i just find it frustrating when Muslims boast about their ‘advancements’ in academia during that era and say the Europeans were, well like a bunch of Rainmen.

 

[R_not]

Heh. That could be it too.

Honestly, i just find it frustrating when Muslims boast about their ‘advancements’ in academia during that era and say the Europeans were, well like a bunch of Rainmen.

Usually the only time they can boast of advancements is when they got newly conquered dhimmi, or converts, or slaves who ended out converting in order to make their lives bearable. After time goes, the newly conquered become the 2nd, 3rd, etc generations, of conquered they become just as dim as the muslims and that is why muslim lands go back into their own dark ages. We only see advancements when they have our workers go into their lands, such as the Aramco, OPEC, etc do things for them.

Anyway, it is more complicated than I can explain. But, I do have these articles that I should reread also, but go into this in better depth. They are rather long, but I found them very interesting and telling of ‘muslim achievements’ (which is really an oxymoron). the video is actually pretty good, but it is not as detailed as the article, of course, and it is 7 min 48 sec.

believers vs unbelievers contributions

Fjordman: islam, the Greeks and the Scientific Revolution, Part 1
Part2
Part3

 

[abucs]

Planten,

the founding of a great majority of the sciences was in the Christian west. And the creation of these can be traced to that medeival time and much of it to the religious monastries.

The idea that science and religion are opposed to eachother is a modern day concept that has been gaining ground since 100 years ago.

The new group today, the materialists, or rationalists as they call themselves are well presented in the media and they have been pushing this line very hard. If you wish to investigate the truth of this claim then lets start another thread.

catholiceducation.org/articles/science/sc0022.html
accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/BC/Gregor_Mendel.php
catholic.com/library/galileo_controversy.asp

 

[brownjt]

If you’re referring to the works of Greek Philosophers it is true that in Western Europe many of the writings of Aristotle were regained through contact with Islamic writing, particularly Avicenna and Averross, if I’m not mistaken. First we have to recall that Muslims acquired the writings of the Greek Philosophers through the Christians of Alexandria, and therefore you can view it as Western Christians regaining what Christendom originally possessed, and ironically, something Muslims took from us.

Secondly, we have to admire the openness of Western Christians who were capable of admiring the good in Islamic writing and judiciously rejecting what is wrong or inconsistent with their on understanding.

Lastly, we should recall Islam’s general attitude towards Philosophy which is negative. Avicenna and Aveross were only capable of writing because the Sultans they lived under were tolerant of them.

This is simply not true. The proto scientists were monks and priests. The very fact that science took hold in Europe is because Christianity’s view of the material world made it possible to study. There are many notable Catholic scientists who have helped progress our scientific understanding.

The irony is many Islamic scholars refused to accept that the Earth is round and that it revolves around the Earth up till very recent times. My memory fails me at the moment but it might have been some Wahabi shaykh, perhaps bin baaz who rejected that the earth revolved around the sun until one of the Saudi Royals went into space to saw it for himself!

As for Galileo I am no historian however I understand the situation was more complex. It wasn’t so much Galileo’s theories as it was his radical interpretations of the bible that got him into trouble. Besides, the Church since John Paul II has apologized for any wrong that may have been done to Galileo.

Wrong that may have been done to Galileo…? What do you think? Are you an apologist for the wrongs that were committed…Are you waffling too…? Is this like making excuses for cutting off people’s heads and hands like the saudis do…? I guess the inquisition was ok as well…?

**The catholic church was wrong and had no Biblical basis for what it did - as well as commanding and encouraging all to fight in the Crusades by emptying the prisons to do so…Look, the faith is great and mysterious, but the things those aspects of the church were abusive and non-christian,They were, well so…medieval. - just like the political and extremists of Islam are today.
**

If you google it there are many writings on this particular event in history, worth getting an accurate perspective.

 

[swariffin]

**Yes, you are right. When the Judo-christian people in western countries were in dark ages, at that time Muslims taught all knowledge to them. Lately, the Muslims misbehaved and went to sleep. The western countries progressed in technology. Please let me remind you that progress was not due to any christian help. Rather the progress has been made because the church left everything to the scientists and stopped bothering the scientists.

Previously the church was punishing the people who were making any significant advancement. Galileo is a good example of the great sufferers. I admit that Muslims have not contributed anything during last 500 years. The west had made much progress in mathematics and physics,**

That shows that the Roman Catholic Church are willing to learn from another and willing to admit mistakes. John Paul II was daring to openly apologize to Galileo for the bad things the Church did in the past. I believe that you don’t know how much internal objections that John Paul II faced for announcing the public appology. But, appologizing he did. Any muslim leaders ever appologize? ever forgiving Israel and stop calling for jihads against Israel?? You people are GROSSLY MISUSING RELIGION for justification of your thirst for revenge. Forget the Jews. Can you guys forget the painfull past (I understand it how painfull it was), drop all weap

The RCC even lastly convened the Vatical Council and effectively revisited the teachings. I believe that you don’t know how much the Vatical Council II yield. Or perhaps you don’t care. But, that is fine. Without Vatical council II, the Church would fall into what we believe as “Putting God according to our own thought”. Do you ever think that God has revealed 100% of Himself to Muhammad? Does it possible for a human being to understand every single thing about Allah? Even when Allah did reveal Himself 100% to human, human’s brain will not be able to receive that no matter how clever you are. And yet, you muslims, claim that Muhammad was uneducated and even illiterate.

To me, Mohammad was way… way too early to declare that the Quran contains ALL (repeat ALL) things that God wants. Muhammad was guilty for puting God in just a book, and guilty for putting God in so static and limited world within such book (Quran). Some of the Quran verses teach good things to human, i admit that. That is also why that John Paul II was willing to kiss it (He wasn’t just find out the price tag and converted it into Euro, when he hold it). For that good verses, i am willing to forget the medina and jihadist verses which teach otherwise. I have seen many good muslims who live peacefully without care of those violent medica verses.

 

[Lance]

What have the followers of Islam given the world in the last 500 years that is of significance? It seems to me that most of the advances in the world have been made by Judeo/Christian cultures.

Nothing in the past 500 years? That will take you back to 1500, not the Middle Ages.

 

[Lance]

PLO Acknowledges: Still at War with Israel

Yasir Arafat may have shook Yitzhak Rabin’s hand in 1993 and signed solemn declarations about ending the war to eliminate Israel, but late last month, in a New York City courtroom, the Palestine Liberation Organization formally confirmed that it still sees terrorism against Israelis as legitimate acts of war.

The lawsuit, Sokolow v The Palestine Liberation Organization, brought by the intrepid David Strachman, alleges that the PLO carried out two machine-gun and five bombing attacks in the Jerusalem area between January 2001 and February 2004. The plaintiffs allege, in the words of U.S. District Judge George Daniels, that the PLO did so “intending to terrorize, intimidate, and coerce the civilian population of Israel into acquiescing to defendants’ political goals and demands, and to influence the policy of the United States and Israeli governments in favor of accepting defendants’ political goals and demands.” The attacks killed 33 and wounded many more, some of them U.S. citizens; the victims and their families are seeking up to US$3 billion in damages from the PLO.

To this, the PLO, represented in part by none other than the appalling Ramsey Clark (who in a distant age, 1967-69, was attorney general of the United States), replied that the attacks were acts of war rather than terrorism. As Daniels summarizes the PLO argument: “defendants argue that subject matter jurisdiction is lacking because this action is premised on acts of war, which is barred under the ATA [Antiterrorism Act of 1991], and further is based on conduct which does not meet the statutory definition of ‘international terrorism’.”

This response is noteworthy for two reasons: (1) Fifteen years after Oslo supposedly ended the state of war, four years after Mahmoud Abbas took over and supposedly improved on Arafat’s abysmal record, the PLO publicly maintains it remains at war with Israel. (2) The PLO argues, even in the context of an American law court, that blatant, cruel, inhumane, and atrocious acts of murder constitute legitimate acts of warfare.

danielpipes.org/article/5993

 

[Lance]

Scotland Yard has hiried Islamic scholar Michael Mumisa on how to deal with the issue of the 2012 Olympic games in London conflicting with Ramadan. Mr. Mumisa has said that the commemoration of 11 Israeli athletes killed during the Munich games by Palestinian terrorists might offend Muslims.

I have come to the point that if it offends Muslims, let’s do it

 

[bpbasilphx]

** Originally Posted by churchcamefirst View Post

. There are some Muslim countries who are killing Catholic priests,
It is in India. And India is not a Muslim/Islamic country, BTW.**

**As a matter of fact, priests, bishops, and faithful are being killed in Iraq and Egypt, which are Mahometan countries.

I bear witness there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead.**

 

[thomas1400]

LONDON METROPOLITAN POLICE DISCREDIT RICHARD KERBAJ’S FALSE REPORT (LONDON NEWS RADIO STATION - SUNRISE RADIO)

MET POLICE DENY OLYMPIC TERROR FEARS
DATE: 29.10.08
Updated: 10:29

The Met Police have rejected a national newspaper’s claims that Ramadan coinciding with the 2012 Olympics has increased the security threat.

It has also now been reported that the Times’ claim that an Islamic scholar allegedly warned the paper that the timing of the games could create a security threat is unfounded.

It has now emerged that Sheikh Michael Mumisa, a respected Cambridge Scholar, said nothing of the sort and that journalists must act responsibly.

Chief Inspector Andy Goldstone from the Met Police Olympic Security Directorate agrees there should not be a problem.

———————————————————–

SEE ALSO…

RICHARD KERBAJ’S TIMES ARTICLE EXPOSED AS A FABRICATION!

Dog-whistle journalism: mwaw.net/2008/10/30/dogwhistle/The Times, Ramadan and the London Olympics

BY Dave Crouch

Grumpy Muslims in 2012 Olympics terror shock! When Muslims are feeling tired and hungry during Ramadan they present a terrorist danger, alleges the Times.

The story is so pathetic that it barely warrants serious discussion. But it’s there in the Times. On page 4. And the article is typical of so much media reporting of Islam.

The paper published this “news” item on October 27 under the headline “Police warned of Ramadan tension during 2012 Games”.

The story claimed that Scotland Yard was concerned that the 2012 Olympics in London would “clash” with Ramadan, making it harder to “reduce tensions between Muslims and police” during the Games.

Instead of offering any proof, however, that a religious festival could present a problem for police, the Times article switched in its second paragraph to speculation about terrorism. The 40th anniversary of the shoot-out at the Munich Olympics – in which 9 Israeli hostages died after they were taken hostage by Palestinians – meant there was an “Islamic terrorist threat” to the 2012 Games, the paper said.

Only then did the story returned to Ramadan and the London Olympics. It quoted the head of the highly respected Woolf Institute of Abrahamic Faiths that the police would need some basic training to deal with religious issues that might arise during the Games: “During Ramadan you’re going to have a lot of tired, hungry, less evenly tempered people because they haven’t eaten for 18 hours.”

The implication is clear: tired, hungry Muslims are more likely to lose their temper and… commit a terrorist attack on the Games.

MWAW contacted Dr Ed Kessler, head of the Woolf Institute. He wrote back that he was “very unhappy” with the Times article, which “failed to depict the conversation” that he had had with the paper’s reporter. He said it was “sensationalism of the worst kind” and was “inaccurate in its reporting about the Olympics, Ramadan and the proposed Munich commemoration”.

Dr Kessler has written to the Times to complain, but the paper has yet to publish his letter.

The Times’ method is clear: take a bit of flimsy information from the police, slap on some unrelated speculation about terrorism, throw in a quote – torn out of context – from a respected source to make the piece appear reasonable, and let the reader draw their own racist conclusions. The article is constructed to make it appear that fasting during Ramadan makes Muslims more likely to commit a terrorist atrocity.

This is dog-whistle reporting: the article is couched in reasonable language but sends out a clear message that Islam is dangerous.

It is because of reporting of this kind that MWAW is holding its conference this year.

This entry was posted on Thursday, October 30th, 2008 at 12:36 am and is filed under U.K., Editorials. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. mwaw.net/2008/10/30/dogwhistle/

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SEE ALSO:

The respected London paper THE JEWISH CHRONICLES (JC) has also discredited the TIMES ARTICLE:

Leon Symons
October 30, 2008

Allegations that a police trainer has labelled a proposed commemoration of the Munich Olympics massacre at the 2012 London Olympics “a security threat” have been vehemently denied.

[WOOLF INSTITUTE’S] executive Director Edward Kessler, said: “Sheikh Mumisa’s words have been twisted in a way that is not accurate. I know what was said because I was there throughout the course. We were very unhappy with what appeared because it did not reflect the course that the officers took.

“We are not experts in terrorism, we are experts in faith and interfaith and that’s what they were here to learn. It was a very positive programme which dealt with subjects including antisemitism and Islamophobia.”……

Alex Goldberg, chief executive of the London Jewish Forum, said that any commemoration would be “up to the families of those who died, with the Israel Olympic Association and, ultimately, the International Olympic Committee to decide what it will be”.

——————————————————————

 

[abucs]

My experience with Ramadan is that people are usually very full and content during the day as they stay up all night eating and often go to bed in the early hours of the morning.

It might not work so well in non muslim societies as work is generally not restructured around the different eating and sleeping patterns.

I would like to hear from muslim people on what Ramadan means to them and how it might make people more peaceful and perhaps how it might be more difficult to fulfill in places like the U.K…

 

[swariffin]

My experience with Ramadan is that people are usually very full and content during the day as they stay up all night eating and often go to bed in the early hours of the morning.

It might not work so well in non muslim societies as work is generally not restructured around the different eating and sleeping patterns.

I would like to hear from muslim people on what Ramadan means to them and how it might make people more peaceful and perhaps how it might be more difficult to fulfill in places like the U.K…

Dear Abucs,

In Indonesia, Ramadhan became somehow created “hostile” situation against non muslims. The Islam hardliners always tried to find any reason to forcefully close the restaurants during the Ramadhan. The law enforcers usuall could not do much except watching, or preventing arson at most. Sometimes they even could not do any damn thing when outnumbered.

 

[abucs]

Dear Abucs,

In Indonesia, Ramadhan became somehow created “hostile” situation against non muslims. The Islam hardliners always tried to find any reason to forcefully close the restaurants during the Ramadhan. The law enforcers usuall could not do much except watching, or preventing arson at most. Sometimes they even could not do any damn thing when outnumbered.

Is that hostility in Jakarta Swariffin, or in the other cities or more rural areas ?

Would you say that the hostility is typical or only occurs occassionally ?

 

[swariffin]

Is that hostility in Jakarta Swariffin, or in the other cities or more rural areas ?

Would you say that the hostility is typical or only occurs occassionally ?

It is occassionally, though. It can happen anywhere, but mostly in Java island only. Not all muslims like those hardliners. But, as you know, most of the muslims here in Indonesia are poor and uneducated. They can be sparked so easily. Those hardliners are very good speakers indeed.

 

[R_not]

Is that hostility in Jakarta Swariffin, or in the other cities or more rural areas ?

Would you say that the hostility is typical or only occurs occassionally ?

It is typical. mohammed even broke ramadan with his continual wars. He was the one who started it and knew what a farce it was so broke it.

mohammed went against the Meccans at the end of ramadan, he sent a raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan.

Yom Kippur War of 1973: Muslims, led by Egypt and Syria, and backed and financed by Iraqi, Iranian, and Saudi Arabian OPEC petro-dollars, launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on their most important religious day, Yom Kippur, simultaneously invading the Sinai and Golan Heights with Soviet planes, tanks, and armor. Also known as the Ramadan War, it represented the forth major Islamic attack on Israel since the nation was reestablished in 1948. Out equipped and out numbered 100 to 1, Israel won - stunning and angering Muslims the world over.

There are many, many more incidences of muslims attacking during ramadan.

The one thing everyone needs to remember is that any tactic is ok to use to win. And ‘war is deception’, mohammed.

 

[R_not]

It is occassionally, though. It can happen anywhere, but mostly in Java island only. Not all muslims like those hardliners. But, as you know, most of the muslims here in Indonesia are poor and uneducated. They can be sparked so easily. Those hardliners are very good speakers indeed.

Only in Indonesia?! How come all the violence in Pakistan, Kashmir, Africa, the Philippines, or how about the daily lobbing of bombs into Israel, or the increased violence against non-muslims in Europe?!

I would say that it is just a foul excuse used - poor and uneducated - that we have heard time and again from muslims to excuse their violence against non-muslims.

 

[dzheremi]

Indonesia is swariffin’s country…that’s why it is being talked about instead of all those other places, R_not.