Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful and humanitarian; not racial

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Salaam/peace
mark_a said:
According to the Quran, is there any reason at all to kill Jews?

Thanks.
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God warned us in holy Quran that killing an innocent person is like killing of whole mankind , punishment is hell fire etc.
 
mark_a said:
According to the Quran, is there any reason at all to kill Jews?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
What the Quran teaches and what some muslims preach are often two different things. I know that the Grand Mufti before Israel became a state preached that no jew should be allowed on arab lands and promoted riots, murders and rapes of Jews that were living there at the time. Such hate rhetoric still goes on today, as I’m sure we all know.
 
paarsurrey,

I praise you and your advocacy for peace. You are an excellent human, Muslim or not. I would say, that your peaceful attitude is verifably at odds with the teachings and life of your great prophet. Congratulations for rejecting his attitudes and adopting peace.
 
Thanks for the items on the IRA but my point in using the initials was…the IRA ain’t got nothin to do with this. Neither did I “pidgeonhole” all muslims into the terrorist mold. I am not backing off here…if you think there is no problem with islam and western civilization…ok but you are not in touch with reality.
The IRA…back to that for illustration, could not have functioned within Ireland without the support, real and otherwise, of the Irish people. Islamism couldn’t exist without funding and support, real and otherwise, of the muslims of the world. You don’t have to be an IRA man on “active duty” to be part of the issue neither do you have to be a “terrorist muslim” to be part of the issue. If this does not sufficiently explain what I mean then I can do no better.
I don’t think sticking one’s head in the sand is helpful here.
 
claymcdermott said:
It is dangerous to attempt to dismiss a religion by the actions of some of its members inability to follow it.
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But what if that member was the actual founder of the faith? What if the faith was founded by a man who by all accounts killed (or ordered the killing of) many unarmed men; owned slaves; legalized sex slavery; had sex with a 9 year old, and admited that he once spoke for Satan? Does this allow us to dismiss the religion?
 
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Salaam/peace
pismopal said:
islam…the religion of peace, is at it again in India. (
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God says in Quran that killing innocent persons mean killer will be in fire on the last day.

In India whenver any terrorist attacks take place , they put blame on Muslims. Only 2/3 weeks back ,for the first time , Indian Police admitted that Hindus can be behind those crimes .

The funny things is Hindu leaders are objecting against the word ’ Hindu Terrorists’ while they had no objection against Muslims terrorists.

I don’t think Christians missionaries come under attacks in Muslim majority country when it’s very common in India. But media normally don’t say they are Hindu terrorists.

related links:

Indian Nun in Hindu Rape Nightmare

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...goBlobs&blobwhere=1221557041189&ssbinary=true

State police failed to stop the crimes, failed to protect me from the attackers. They were friendly with the attackers," said Barwa.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1224694273484&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

India’s Hindu Terrorists

The arrest of India’s first Hindu terrorist cell over a series of bombing attacks initially blamed on Muslims is angering the Hindu majority in the Asian giant.

“You cannot call it Hindu terrorism,” Ram Madhav, a spokesman for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, the umbrella group for India’s Hindu activists, told the Washington Post on Monday, November 24.

Punish Indian Muslims Torturers: HRW

"The detainees were stripped, hung upside down, severely beaten, subjected to electric shocks, and otherwise ill-treated.

They were also threatened with the torture of their relatives, particularly female relatives."

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1227019058517&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1227019227537&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout
 
Whether one likes it or not, history is full of examples of Christians killing non-Christians and Christians killing each other - and the justification was found in the Bible every time - God was always on their side. Look at the killings in England alone during the Tudor period when Catholics and Protestants burned each other at the stake (depending on who was in power) - and claimed they were doing God’s work. And that is just one small example. When the Spanish arrived in the Americas they routinely killed and tortured the Native population - which was a-OK because they were heathens, lesser beings if you will. And the Bible was used to support slavery for centuries. Some Christians use scripture as a validation of the most hateful racism imaginable, some for the dehumanization and subjugation of women, etc. (most KKK folks are Bible believing Christians - or at least they think so, which is a large part of my point).

My point is that history shows us how scripture has been twisted to “support” all sorts of heinous acts. Clearly, the Koran is no different. And remember too, Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity, which has (hopefully) pretty much outgrown such radical behavior.
 
Swan said:
Whether one likes it or not, history is full of examples of Christians killing non-Christians and Christians killing each other - and the justification was found in the Bible every time - God was always on their side. Look at the killings in England alone during the Tudor period when Catholics and Protestants burned each other at the stake (depending on who was in power) - and claimed they were doing God’s work. And that is just one small example. When the Spanish arrived in the Americas they routinely killed and tortured the Native population - which was a-OK because they were heathens, lesser beings if you will. And the Bible was used to support slavery for centuries. Some Christians use scripture as a validation of the most hateful racism imaginable, some for the dehumanization and subjugation of women, etc. (most KKK folks are Bible believing Christians - or at least they think so, which is a large part of my point).

My point is that history shows us how scripture has been twisted to “support” all sorts of heinous acts. Clearly, the Koran is no different. And remember too, Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity, which has (hopefully) pretty much outgrown such radical behavior.
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Your point is historically interesting…but not contemporary and it is irrelevent. How about what them damn Vikings did to the Monks? I am living in todays world and I am concerned about my grandkids…not my dead grand parents. Please…no tu quoque comparisons. Get with today…stop whining about the past.
How do you know so much about the KKK? How do you know so much about their religious beliefs? You are an expert on the Koran and the twisting of it’s words and commands? I don’t recognize you as an expert and I can ping pong with you about what the Koran says about non believers but I will not…that is your job.
If you are reading this…educate yourselves about islam…don’t listen to what muslims say or what I say…educate yourselves…your children’s future is at stake.
 
Swan; 4477707:
Whether one likes it or not, history is full of examples of Christians killing non-Christians and Christians killing each other - and the justification was found in the Bible every time - God was always on their side. Look at the killings in England alone during the Tudor period when Catholics and Protestants burned each other at the stake (depending on who was in power) - and claimed they were doing God’s work. And that is just one small example. When the Spanish arrived in the Americas they routinely killed and tortured the Native population - which was a-OK because they were heathens, lesser beings if you will. And the Bible was used to support slavery for centuries. Some Christians use scripture as a validation of the most hateful racism imaginable, some for the dehumanization and subjugation of women, etc. (Most KKK folks are Bible believing Christians - or at least they think so, which is a large part of my point).

My point is that history shows us how scripture has been twisted to “support” all sorts of heinous acts.
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Hi Swan!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut in the thread.

So you make a good point. **Though Jesus and Mary; as we Muslims believe were innocent **; yet the Catholics Protestants were not so innocent. Might be the cloaks of the clergy, please don’t mind, during all these centuries are soaked and red with the blood of Jews and pagans/heathens and people struck, as they say, with demons and evil spirits needing purifications; and of course with their own brethren Catholics Protestants.

I understand that this all happened due to the mischief and the working of the vested Clergy and of course of the rulers they strongly supported then; not due to any express teachings of Jesus and most truly anything in God’s Word revealed on Jesus or Mary, which I believe were always peaceful but CatholicsProtestants have lost them, in my opinion.

A lot of confessions have to be made by the Religious Hierarchy of the CatholicsProtestants for the wrongs committed by their fore-runners in the past two thousand years. Now they all come clean as they have forgotten that, as they live, in an atmosphere of secular governments; which have nothing to do with CatholicsProtestants, by and large.

But this is not the subject of our thread. We will harp on the topic of the thread.

I would request our friend/brother in humanity Swan, to help our friend Eucharisted, who I think, did not, read Quran intently; and he was on a spree of just copy/pasting from different sites. Please help Eucharisted in selection of the most inimical and deadly verse in Quran by referring to the text as well as the context of Quran after understanding them from the Whole Scripture- Quran.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Regards
 
Muslim woman

You were asked a great question by Ralphinal and I also am waiting for YOUR answer.

I already know the answer from the muslim perspective…an innocent person is a muslim…no others.

Those killed in the attack in Mumbai are not innocent…neither are their hostages…they are unbelievers…kuffur.
 
pismopal said:
Your point is historically interesting…but not contemporary and it is irrelevent. How about what them damn Vikings did to the Monks? I am living in todays world and I am concerned about my grandkids…not my dead grand parents. Please…no tu quoque comparisons. Get with today…stop whining about the past.
How do you know so much about the KKK? How do you know so much about their religious beliefs? You are an expert on the Koran and the twisting of it’s words and commands? I don’t recognize you as an expert and I can ping pong with you about what the Koran says about non believers but I will not…that is your job.
If you are reading this…educate yourselves about islam…don’t listen to what muslims say or what I say…educate yourselves…your children’s future is at stake.
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I never claimed to be an expert. I do have a degree in history and as I am from the South and involved in anti-racist work, I know something about the history of the KKK (for example, those guys that blew up that black church and killed those girls back in the 60s? one of them was a minister).

I’ve never read the Koran. My point was simply that when it comes to horrific acts being committed by folks claiming to be follower of a peaceful faith, then Christians are the pot calling the kettle black - as history is full of it. It may not matter to you, but in some ways it is very relevent to what is happening today - esp. with the Hindus - as they were victims of “Christian” racism, bigotry and colonialization. So our history can come back to haunt us. It is a bad idea to color all peoples of the same faith/race/nationality/sex/etc with one brush. It is dishonest, lacks charity and generally follows a double standard as we wouldn’t want anyone doing that to us.

If you are suggesting that I want my loved ones blown up by terrorists, you are incorrect. Fundamentalism of all stripes is, IMO, a dangerous idea. But IMO accepting peaceful folk of another faith (even if some extremeists of that faith believe in violence) is the only way to move forward. We need to find common ground and work from there. A belief in peaceful coexistance seems like a good place to start. Assuming all Muslims are secret terrorists, on the other hand, seems like a plan that is doomed from inception.
 
Getting this thread back on topic:

I gave numerous quotes from the Koran that showed Allah and his followers must wage war against the Jews, which is what the OP was asking a source for, and I also gave quotes that showed Allah didn’t very much favor the Jews - in fact, he had cursed them and said they were perserve and so forth.

And now I still am waiting for an answer to my question of why Allah contradicts himself in the Koran. Will Muslims be able to give me a straight-forward answer? I hope so! 🙂
 
Swan said:
I never claimed to be an expert. I do have a degree in history and as I am from the South and involved in anti-racist work, I know something about the history of the KKK (for example, those guys that blew up that black church and killed those girls back in the 60s? one of them was a minister).

I’ve never read the Koran. My point was simply that when it comes to horrific acts being committed by folks claiming to be follower of a peaceful faith, then Christians are the pot calling the kettle black - as history is full of it. It may not matter to you, but in some ways it is very relevent to what is happening today - esp. with the Hindus - as they were victims of “Christian” racism, bigotry and colonialization. So our history can come back to haunt us. It is a bad idea to color all peoples of the same faith/race/nationality/sex/etc with one brush. It is dishonest, lacks charity and generally follows a double standard as we wouldn’t want anyone doing that to us.

If you are suggesting that I want my loved ones blown up by terrorists, you are incorrect. Fundamentalism of all stripes is, IMO, a dangerous idea. But IMO accepting peaceful folk of another faith (even if some extremeists of that faith believe in violence) is the only way to move forward. We need to find common ground and work from there. A belief in peaceful coexistance seems like a good place to start. Assuming all Muslims are secret terrorists, on the other hand, seems like a plan that is doomed from inception.
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For openers…read the Koran…I implore you. You seem like a nice guy and I agree with you that it is wrong to color people who aren’t of your faith with one brush…sorry but that is islam. This is what I am talking about…intolerance…this is islam…it’s essence is intolerance. I have hated this all my life and how a person of good faith can defend it is beyond me.
I will not play ping pong about what Christians did or did not do in the past or how it came back to haunt them. My beef is with those like you who defend the wrongs of others as some kind of righteous payback. You want to do what is right?..stop defending wrong…whatever side you find it on. That is what is the right thing to do. Stop pretending to be some kind of moral cheerleader when in actuality you are defending evil and offering as an excuse a lame grade school bromide " well they did it too."
If you are a history guy your study must have ended in the year 700.
 
pismopal said:
Your point is historically interesting…but not contemporary and it is irrelevent. How about what them damn Vikings did to the Monks? I am living in todays world and I am concerned about my grandkids…not my dead grand parents. Please…no tu quoque comparisons. Get with today…stop whining about the past.
How do you know so much about the KKK? How do you know so much about their religious beliefs? You are an expert on the Koran and the twisting of it’s words and commands? I don’t recognize you as an expert and I can ping pong with you about what the Koran says about non believers but I will not…that is your job.
If you are reading this…educate yourselves about islam…don’t listen to what muslims say or what I say…educate yourselves…your children’s future is at stake.
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Hi

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut pismopal a friend in the forum. I appreciate your approach. One should be rational, reasonable and logical. We have to live and let live in the present times; as the future of our kids is at stake. We have to grapple with the present problems and don’t need unnecessarily to live in the past.

We do understand that the Muslim clergy were not innocent and were as wrong as for instance were the Christian Clergy or as a matter of fact the Jewish Clergy (Jesus took notice of them) or the Hindu Clergy (their behavior with the Buddhists or with the Shudras could be referred).

Now that GodAllahParmesherYHWH has sent **Second Coming **1835-1908 and given him the task of cleaning the Scriptures ( being a metaporic successor of Budda, Krishna, Moses,Jesus and Muhammad) of all Revealed Religions from the corruptions made by the **Errant Clergy **, the world over for their own nefarious designs; by establishing the respect of all the Messengers Prophets of the world and the Word of God Allah sent with them and bringing forth their true teachings which are essential for peace in the world and the present civilisation of the Globe.

Peace is most essential.

In the end; may I request you also to help our friend Eucharisted, who I think, did not, read Quran intently; and he was on a spree of just copy/pasting from different sites. Please help Eucharisted in selection of the most inimical and deadly verse in Quran by referring to the text as well as the context of Quran after understanding them from the Whole Scripture- Quran?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Regards
 
Swan

I really liked the quote from MLK who was a true hero of the human race. Please give me one from a muslim (in context) of similar sentiment. Please be advised that being nice to somebody in islamic lore means being nice to another muslim.
 
Eucharisted said:
Getting this thread back on topic:

I gave numerous quotes from the Koran that showed Allah and his followers must wage war against the Jews, which is what the OP was asking a source for, and I also gave quotes that showed Allah didn’t very much favor the Jews - in fact, he had cursed them and said they were perserve and so forth.

And now I still am waiting for an answer to my question of why Allah contradicts himself in the Koran. Will Muslims be able to give me a straight-forward answer? I hope so! 🙂
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Eucharisted, Sorry, I did not see your questions. It is true that Allah blamed Jews and Christians for their bad behaviours at times. It is also true that the Jews were cursed at the tongue of David and Jesus.

It is not true that Allah did not praise the Jews. Allah had praised the jews very much in Quran and said that He exalted the Jews (Children of Jacob) above all the people of the world. The Quran told us about the promised land for the children of Jacob.
But you know when the people default, the blessing can be taken away. So please be kind. The Quran only blames the old time Jews after they had defaulted. That is all written in OT.

Please read the OT where the prophets of Israel are all lamenting about the bad behaviour of the Jews. Read the bible/NT where Jesus is lamenting on the bad behaviour of the Jewish leadership.

So if the problem is blaming the Jews then the OT and NT is also doing the same thing. Would you deny that? I will write the rest of reply later. Thanks.

P.S. The present day Jews are not to be blamed for anything that was done by their predecessors. They have much improved and done away with their bad habits. They have reformed considerably. So there is not to be any blame on the present day Jews. Here I am not discussing any politics.
 
Planten,
What does the word innocent mean in Islam?
Who is an example of an innocent person?
 
planten said:
Eucharisted, Sorry, I did not see your questions. It is true that Allah blamed Jews and Christians for their bad behaviours at times. It is also true that the Jews were cursed at the tongue of David and Jesus.

It is not true that Allah did not praise the Jews. Allah had praised the jews very much in Quran and said that He exalted the Jews (Children of Jacob) above all the people of the world. The Quran told us about the promised land for the children of Jacob.
But you know when the people default, the blessing can be taken away. So please be kind. The Quran only blames the old time Jews after they had defaulted. That is all written in OT.

Please read the OT where the prophets of Israel are all lamenting about the bad behaviour of the Jews. Read the bible/NT where Jesus is lamenting on the bad behaviour of the Jewish leadership.

So if the problem is blaming the Jews then the OT and NT is also doing the same thing. Would you deny that? I will write the rest of reply later. Thanks.

P.S. The present day Jews are not to be blamed for anything that was done by their predecessors. They have much improved and done away with their bad habits. They have reformed considerably. So there is not to be any blame on the present day Jews. Here I am not discussing any politics.
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Hi

Thanks brother planten for your charitable and essential comments.

We are not discussing here politics of the world; that is an interest of the politicians and statesmen of the world. We are only peaceful citizens of the Globe and want to live and let live everybody without any bias of religion, race or color.

Thanks
 
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