Islam/Satan connection.

[R_not]

Thank you swariffin, I really appreciate your answer to him.

I guess it shows I am tired of his deflection. And his not even trying to stay on topic.

I found the discussion of the Yidizi fascinating. Like I posted on the first post of this thread - I don’t think that it is related to islam, but not for the same reason as planten, or even muslim woman, suggested.

I didn’t even know they existed.

With islam, or better said - muslims, trying to wipe out other’s culture (remember the Buddhist statues, the godzillion number of Churches and temples, etc) it is miraculous this little sect has survived.

I am not even saying I think it is good or bad at this point since I do not know. But, they do seem to be just one more victim of jihadists, per the articles that I have read so far.

 

[swariffin]

Thank you swariffin, I really appreciate your answer to him.

I guess it shows I am tired of his deflection. And his not even trying to stay on topic.

I found the discussion of the Yidizi fascinating. Like I posted on the first post of this thread - I don’t think that it is related to islam, but not for the same reason as planten, or even muslim woman, suggested.

I didn’t even know they existed.

With islam, or better said - muslims, trying to wipe out other’s culture (remember the Buddhist statues, the godzillion number of Churches and temples, etc) it is miraculous this little sect has survived.

I am not even saying I think it is good or bad at this point since I do not know. But, they do seem to be just one more victim of jihadists, per the articles that I have read so far.

Dear brother,

My answer is for Planten, actually.

Planten is looking for proof of Jesus is God.

1. Jesus is glorified in the mountain (Mat 17:1-13) witnessed by 3 of the deciples (Peter, John and James)
2. Jesus is worshipped (Mat 28:8&17), by Mary Magdalene and the deciples.
3. Teaching that Jesus is God, Acts 11:20. Believed by the early Christians.

Let see if Planten can come out with something

 

[R_not]

Dear brother,

My answer is for Planten, actually.

Planten is looking for proof of Jesus is God.

1. Jesus is glorified in the mountain (Mat 17:1-13) witnessed by 3 of the deciples (Peter, John and James)
2. Jesus is worshipped (Mat 28:8&17), by Mary Magdalene and the deciples.
3. Teaching that Jesus is God, Acts 11:20. Believed by the early Christians.

Let see if Planten can come out with something

I was actually going to put something together tomorrow. I think there is so much stuff that it will take a bit for me to compose it and I like to do that on a separate note and then cut/paste it here.

Jesus performed so many miracles, had so many witnesses that I know that I will not mention them all, but I will give it a go.

planten is disgruntled because he cannot do anything of the sort with mohammed, prove the Bible was corrupted, or prove whatever he should be able to prove if mohammed was a legitimate prophet. Of course, we can all prove what he really was…

By the way, planten won’t read the Bible. But, someone else might and that is why I will follow up tomorrow with a response. Probably later on in the day.

 

[Eucharisted]

Okay, here’s the problem as I see it: Muslims are accusing these people of worshipping the devil. Christians are accusing Muslims of being devil worshippers because they see the connections between Islam and this other religion. And nobody sees the irony in any of this.

 

[swariffin]

Okay, here’s the problem as I see it: Muslims are accusing these people of worshipping the devil. Christians are saying Muslims are devil worshippers because they see the connections between Islam and this other religion. And yet nobody sees the irony in this?

I don’t know about the Yazidi and how it is related to the muslim. So, I can’t comment on that. Any other info about the Yazidi? The more info we have, expecially from all parties, it will be good will it not?

 

[R_not]

Okay, here’s the problem as I see it: Muslims are accusing these people of worshipping the devil. Christians are accusing Muslims of being devil worshippers because they see the connections between Islam and this other religion. And nobody sees the irony in any of this.

yeah But, I guess I am interested in different religions and it caught my eye.

Do a google on ‘yazidi’ and there seems to be some of them living here in the USA too.

Now, I don’t find Wikipedia the best source for anything since no one checks the facts, but there seems to be a Yazidi Book of Revelation.

I am sure that there might be better sources - this was just a quickee search.

And off the cuff they are not devil worshipers, but believe that good and evil exist in each one of us - more of a spiritual thing than a real entity of evil/Satan. From what I have gathered from muslims they are not able to fathom spiritual - they are very corporal, or focus on the basic human body (too much!).

and it is like their not wanting to accept our explanations of the Trinity that so many people have given these same, few individual muslims - it is better to keep the labels of ‘polytheist’, or in the case of Yazidi’s the label of ‘devil worshiper’ so they can keep on hating us all.

I still don’t know if there is a main prophet, or how/when this all came about, but they have a mash of paganism, Judaism, Christianity and islam in their beliefs too.

They are mostly located in the Kurdish area of Iraq and there are also some in Russia, and as I have already said - in the USA. I am sure there are others elsewhere but I have not read enough yet to say.

Their numbers are small.

 

[dzheremi]

For those of you wishing to learn more about the Yezidis, look for Jules Leroy’s “Monks and Monestaries of the Near East” (1963). I am away from my copy right now, but from what I can remember it devotes some time to the Yezidis that the author met with during his travels in Iraq, and also includes some photos of their monestaries and worshippers. It also identifies them as “devil-worshippers”, but I guess they are used to that charge by now, especially from outsiders (Leroy is French).

That book, it should be noted, also chronicles travels to monasteries in Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, etc. It is probably worth the search for all the beautiful photographs alone!

 

[cathopologist]

Thanks Cath for giving us more information about the Yazidis. But there may be much more to know. The Yazidis may be the anti-Shia people and at the same time, not welcome by the mainline Sunni Muslims.

So they are on their own, nothing to do with Islam, specially if they do not have Quran as their religious book. But we do not know about that yet. Thanks for posting.

Actually its the Muslims who are anti-Yazidis, as they are to other ancient non-Muslim communities. The report explicitly says its the Yazidis who got killed by Muslim extremists, not the other way round.

 

[cathopologist]

Okay, here’s the problem as I see it: Muslims are accusing these people of worshipping the devil. Christians are accusing Muslims of being devil worshippers because they see the connections between Islam and this other religion. And nobody sees the irony in any of this.

You and i did.

 

[cathopologist]

Who knows how many pagan religions he wiped out - we know he wiped out Zorastrianism.

You think Zoroastrianism is a pagan religion?

After all my readings I have to agree with some assessments, backed up by the koran and hadiths, that mohammed had a brain problem. And by that I mean he had Frontal Lobe Epilepsy, narcissism, and quite possibly pathological obsessive compulsive disease and maybe even a schizoid.

So you think everyone with F.L.E have ‘brain problems’, are narcissists and pathological and possible schizoids? That’s very insulting. Do you know anything about F.L.E in the first place?

We know that his mother left him to a nurse, his father died when he was very young, his nurse handed him back to his mother because mohammed 'would fall down and had fits’, and then she died when he was about 5 or 6 years old. And that could - **probably did - contribute to his hatred of women. **

These are known for an over sexed maniac, and other signs of cult leaders.

So all F.L.E patients are also angry, over-sexed maniacs?

 

[Auriel]

Actually, I have heard of them before. The WIKI article is not really the best source. It is still in the works. This article is a lot like the one posted originally, but goes into more depth on some of it. findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SBL/is_1-2_19/ai_n15954362/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

The beliefs seem to have elements of many ancient religions, with a little Gnosticism thrown in the mix. They believe in balance. That light cannot exist without darkness.

Actually the first time I heard of them was years ago when reading the works of fiction writer H P Lovecraft. He mentioned them in a short story as “the Yezidi clan of devil-worshippers” I wanted to know if they existed or not for myself, and what part if any was fact, and what was fiction.

It does get confusing. For one thing theirs is a secretive religion, and you must be born into the into it, they do not convert or accept outsiders.

The peacock Angel Malak Taus who leads the other great angels, some see him as a fallen angel who tries to make things right and repented. If you noticed, even in their writings he breathed the breath of life into Adam. That is confusing too, It was God who breathed life into Adam. BUT if you view this angel as some of the Theistic Satanists do, he would be the creator. They believe their lord created mankind, not God.

Quote a few Christians sees the peacock as a good symbol. So do several types of Satanists and Luciferians. Some view the peacock is sacred to Satan. There is a commonality here. To a real theistic Luciferian the color of a blue sky represents Lucifer (not black). I also noted their angel and that color. I will not link you guys though to any of the Satanic sites. Don’t care if anyone wants to call me crazy or not, but some of the darker websites are “Blessed”.

The Yezidi do believe in a form of Satan but don’t normally say his name so as not to offend. They are divided on their belief in hell. They also believe in reincarnation. They have Creator God and this Angel who rules over men. If you think about it the bible also talks about the Prince of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places, so that part is not so weird, But we do not view the fallen angel the same way as they do, or the Muslims do. They have nothing to do with Islam.

I wanted to add that there are Satanic groups out there that study their book of Revelation, (Qu’ret al-Yezid). A favorite quote from chapter 5:

.…in the secret cave of my wisdom it is known that there is no god but myself, Archangel over all the host, Melek Ta’us. Knowing this, who dares deny? Knowing this, who dares fail to worship? Knowing this, who dares worship the false gods of the Koran and bible?..

,

I will say though, historically the books are questioned by some. It really has nothing to do with Islam.

The religion is so mixed and secretive it is really hard to figure exactly what they do believe in. I think they try to pacify the dark one myself, so he will leave them alone, maybe not the same as worship. Perhaps some do not view the fallen Peacock angel, who asks who dares to worship the God of the Bible and Koran, evil as we do. Who knows.

Persecution? yes! But they are not as innocent as some think. The fighting has gone on for a long time. Last year they tricked a 17 year old to come back to their village. She fell in love with a Muslim and converted. They stripped her, she was beaten, and It took her 30 minutes to die by stoning. It was filmed. Her skull and spine was crushed. You do not leave that religion.

I keep up with stories of women in the Mid east. The last I heard the police officers who stood by and did nothing may be fired.

Here is a quick link to give you the basic of what happened.

aina.org/news/20070425181603.htm

 

[Sam_777]

**cathopologist,

**

The Turkish Government argues that the difference between Yezidism and Islam is the same as the difference between the Catholics and Protestants.

Reference.

 

[Sam_777]

How much is the age of those yazidis? Did you check up?

“Yezidis believe their religion to be ancient and to predate Islam by at least a thousand years.”
Reference.

You are the one who is connecting Islam with yazidis. So you are to be blamed. You should have knowledge enough that Muslims seek refuge with Allah from the cursed Devil.

In Islam, can I keep saying “I seek refuge with Allah from hell” and guarantee that I won’t go there!

What if we’re seeking refuge with Satan from his devil descendant!

Why Allah didn’t use his Jewish name “Yahweh” in Quran, even its not one of the 99 names of Allah!

If we are saying "I seek refuge with Yahweh from the cursed Devil" then I would believe that.

That is all false notion of love that you have got. There is no love in church teaching.

FYI, my soul felt Jesus love BEFORE I know that He is Son of God.

You believe that Jesus is the God and he created everything. Including his mother, Mary? Did Jesus create his own mother too? Please tell and there will be many more questions to enlighten us ignorants about the beliefs of the christians. Please give answer.

To tell you the truth, I fully acknowledge that He is Son of God, both my soul and my flesh agree on that, but I’m still working on my flesh side for the God part .

 

[Sam_777]

If you think about it the bible also talks about the Prince of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places, so that part is not so weird, But we do not view the fallen angel the same way as they do, or the Muslims do. They have nothing to do with Islam.

Read these authentic Hadiths and think why that angel would use such force and violence against Muhammed if he was truly from God The Most High:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
“…The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me **…”
(E) (A).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
“*Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over). *”
(E) (A) .

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:*
“…But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains …”*
(E) (A) .

 

[planten]

Read these authentic Hadiths and think why that angel would use such force and violence against Muhammed if he was truly from God The Most High:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3:
“…The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, ‘I do not know how to read.’ Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, ‘I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?’ Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me **…”
(E) (A).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 2:
“*Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah’s Apostle “O Allah’s Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?” Allah’s Apostle replied, “Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes ’ off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says.” 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over). *”
(E) (A) .

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111:*
“…But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains …”*
(E) (A) .

That is a wrong understanding. The Angel gabriel pressed Muhammad a few times and after that Muhammad started reciting what the angel was teaching. The angel never said that he was the devil. it was conveyed to the prophet that it was the Archangel gabriel who was communicating. The name of Gabriel is mentioned in the bible too. that angel is called the spirit from Allah or more correctly Holy spirit.

There is no need to take wrong meanings from the pressure of the first visit of the angel.

Angels are made from light. Devil is ginnie, made from fire. Man is made from dust. We Muslims have the right understanding of all these things which are indicated in the bibleOT/NT too. Jesus promised to his people that the spirit of truth will come and guide them. That meant, revelations will continue.

Jesus could not finish his job fully. Somethign remained to be accomplished later. That was done by Muhammad care of the holy spirit.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

What witness do you have for Jesus to be the son of God or to be the god???

Isaiah prophesied about Jesus:

Isaiah 53

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken. ****

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Isaiah prophesied about Jesus:

Isaiah 53 ****

I can’t see the name of Jesus (p) here . Where it is said that Jesus (p) must be worshipped as God as he is also God ?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Another old testament prophecy about Jesus:

Wisdom 2: 12-20

“Let us beset the just one, because he is obnoxious to us; he sets himself against our doings, Reproaches us for transgressions of the law and charges us with violations of our training.
He professes to have knowledge of God and styles himself a child of the LORD.
To us he is the censure of our thoughts; merely to see him is a hardship for us, Because his life is not like other men’s, and different are his ways.
He judges us debased; he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure.
He calls blest the destiny of the just and boasts that God is his Father.
Let us see whether his words be true; let us find out what will happen to him.
For if the just one be the son of God, he will defend him and deliver him from the hand of his foes.
With revilement and torture let us put him to the test that we may have proof of his gentleness and try his patience.
Let us condemn him to a shameful death; for according to his own words, God will take care of him.”

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

I can’t see the name of Jesus (p) here . Where it is said that Jesus (p) must be worshipped as God as he is also God ?

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Who do you think Isaiah was prophecying about?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

… why that angel would use such force and violence against Muhammed if he was truly from God The Most High… .

what’s your point here ? Muhammed (p) was a devil worshipper , so God sent angel to punish him or Satan sent an angel to teach Muhammed (p) that seek refuse in God from the cursed Satan ?