Islam Sword and Genocides

[Eden]

Is this true? It thought the jizya was only applied to the People of the Book or Christians and Jews (Quran 9.29). Non-Christians/Jews (e.g. Hindus) were given the option to convert to Islam or die (Quran 9:5). That is why so many of them died.

In practice, the word is applied to a special type of tax, levied upon the non-Muslim adult males living under an Islamic state.

The imposition of jizya upon non-Muslims is mandated by the
Quran 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah%between% nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

[grandfather]

If Islam–the religion–were forced on India, then how come India isn’t Muslim? It’s still Hindu, Buddhist, etc, despite being ruled by “Muslims” for centuries.

But you failed to show me how any other “empire” spread “peacefully.”

The Babylonians took the Jews captive, didn’t they? Early in the history of Islam the Persians fought the Romans–why?

You need to understand that territorial expansion is not religion. Religion cannot be forced.

There is no Muslim territory on earth that was not conquered militarily. There was no difference between the state or empire and the religion. The only region that was once conquered and controlled by the Islamic invaders and reconquered by native peoples is the Iberian Penninsula. India once included Pakistan and Bangladesh. These peoples were conquered and subjugated as were all of North Africa, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, Malasia and all the rest.

 

[planten]

Again, you justify the violence of Islam by trying to divert from the topic at hand, which is that Islam is not peaceful and was spread through violence.

We only need to look at the New Testament versus the Quran to know whose violence is supported by their book and whose is not.

**Islam is peaceful and natural religion. Its principles are based on nature. All others faiths have flaws and they are not right and not natural. But we do not do anything. Every one is free to believe what they like. That is also a principle of Islam that “The is no compulsion in (any) religion”. The other religions have yet to show us such a good priciple from their actual religious books.

Now coming to the point that Islam spread by sword. The truth is that it did not use sword. No religion in the world can be spread by sword. Religion is something spiritual and related to the heart. It needs truth to spread. Sword may only be used against those people who fight against Islam or who break some covenant )agreement) or who disallow conversion (i.e. they oppress people about the matters of faith and do not allow people to adopt the faith of their choice). Sword may have to be used in such cases.

Otherwise, Islam spread only by its beautiful teachings. Where ever the Muslims went, the people were oppressed there. When they found the good principles of equality in Islam, pure equality in prayers too (five times a day), they adopted the faith of Islam.

Where was equality in India? There was sect or family system. The Brahmin being on top of every one. Then three more tiers of poor people. People did not like that system. So they converted in large numbers,

Wars were there too. People coming from the west side were attacking the mainland of India. That was even before Jesus time (Alexander the Great, 327 B.C)) Problem is, why were the Indians not capable of defense? It was because of their bad system. The Muslim saint converted many people by their teachings of love in India.**

 

[Delta2]

When they found the good principles of equality in Islam, pure equality in prayers too (five times a day),

When oil well gets dry, the prayers will be reduced

Under economic pressure, Islam Scholars will say :

"Sorry, we misunderstood the quran, the quran only says 3 not 5

sorry brothers. God is wise"

 

[planten]

Is this true? It thought the jizya was only applied to the People of the Book or Christians and Jews (Quran 9.29). Non-Christians/Jews (e.g. Hindus) were given the option to convert to Islam or die (Quran 9:5). That is why so many of them died.

**Not true at all. Please see the verses of the Quran of chapter 9, specially 9:5.

[9:1] This is a declaration of complete vindication on the part of Allah and His Messenger to the idolaters **to whom you had announced a commitment that Islam would triumph in Arabia.

[9:2] So (O idolators) go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the Kafirs (active, violent disbelievers.)

[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who are Kafirs (who disbelieve,and actively and violently oppose Islam.)

[9:4] Except those of the pagan type disbelievers with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely Allah loves those that are righteous.

[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
(That was because of their six years of war mongering and attacking Madinah every time, they were actually at war and should have been prisnors of war. But the prophet, under divine orders, allowed them to disappear from the place within four months. That was good and easy for them.)

[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters seeks protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.

( That means, during these four months, do not kill any one and if any of those pagans need to learn something about Islam and approach with a request, then they should be given the teachings peacefully and protected and escorted to their place of safety.)

(No where does it say that kill all the polytheists. They were given four months to live in the place and no one will kill them. But after four months they were told to depart from the place. But after four months, if any polyrheist was to be found in or around Makkah, he was to be killed.)

 

[planten]

In practice, the word is applied to a special type of tax, levied upon the non-Muslim adult males living under an Islamic state.

The imposition of jizya upon non-Muslims is mandated by the
Quran 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah%between% nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

**This was a good and necessary tax on the non muslim people living in the war area. They were to be protected people and they were not required to fight any one. But rather the Muslims will guarantee their safety, in lieu of Jizyah (tax).

In those days there were wars all around and it was necessary to know who was in favor or against the Muslims. This was a willing tax that the people were pleased and happy to come under the umbrella of Islam.

It was all the more necessary because the Muslims were very few in any place and some Muslims may be living amongst those people of the books. Also some Muslim converts may be there. The tax will ensure the safety of the Muslims living amongst the people of the Books. Otherwise, the Muslims would likely be killed by the christians and the Jews**.

 

[Delta2]

**This was a good and necessary tax on the non muslim people living in the war area. They were to be protected people and they were not required to fight any one. But rather the Muslims will guarantee their safety, in lieu of Jizyah (tax).

In those days there were wars all around and it was necessary to know who was in favor or against the Muslims. This was a willing tax that the people were pleased and happy to come under the umbrella of Islam.

It was all the more necessary because the Muslims were very few in any place and some Muslims may be living amongst those people of the books. Also some Muslim converts may be there. The tax will ensure the safety of the Muslims living amongst the people of the Books. Otherwise, the Muslims would likely be killed by the christians and the Jews**.

That Jizyah can be so high, but so high that people are forced to convert to Islam in order to be able to sustain their family

**
Is a psychological enforcement to conversion**

I know this because I’m portuguese, a muslim contry centuries ago, also Spain

 

[thedavidwilson]

**Not true at all. Please see the verses of the Quran of chapter 9, specially 9:5.

[9:1] This is a declaration of complete vindication on the part of Allah and His Messenger to the idolaters **to whom you had announced a commitment that Islam would triumph in Arabia.

[9:2] So (O idolators) go about in the land for four months, and know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah and that Allah will humiliate the Kafirs (active, violent disbelievers.)

[9:3] And this is a proclamation from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage, that Allah is clear of idolaters, and so is His Messenger. So if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot frustrate the plan of Allah. And give tidings of a painful punishment to those who are Kafirs (who disbelieve,and actively and violently oppose Islam.)

[9:4] Except those of the pagan type disbelievers with whom you have entered into a treaty and who have not subsequently failed you in anything nor aided anyone against you. So fulfil to these the treaty you have made with them till their term. Surely Allah loves those that are righteous.

[9:5] And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakaat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
(That was because of their six years of war mongering and attacking Madinah every time, they were actually at war and should have been prisnors of war. But the prophet, under divine orders, allowed them to disappear from the place within four months. That was good and easy for them.)

[9:6] And if anyone of the idolaters seeks protection of thee, grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah; then convey him to his place of security. That is because they are a people who have no knowledge.

( That means, during these four months, do not kill any one and if any of those pagans need to learn something about Islam and approach with a request, then they should be given the teachings peacefully and protected and escorted to their place of safety.)

(No where does it say that kill all the polytheists. They were given four months to live in the place and no one will kill them. But after four months they were told to depart from the place. But after four months, if any polyrheist was to be found in or around Makkah, he was to be killed.)

The zakat is a muslim poor tax and regular prayers refer to muslim prayers. I thought only muslims had to pay zakat? Are you changing islamic jurisprudence?

 

[thedavidwilson]

**
In those days there were wars all around and it was necessary to know who was in favor or against the Muslims. This was a willing tax that the people were pleased and happy to come under the umbrella of Islam.

**.

What happens if non-muslims were not pleased to come under the “umbrella” of islam? Would the muslims peacfully retire to arabia? According to Sister Amy islam never spreads by violence so if a people did not want islam in their country the muslims would leave without a fight, right? Why did they not leave North Africa, modern day turkey, lebenon? They eventually left spain. Was that peaceful?

Islam is based on so many lies it is hard to keep them straight. You muslims should take a course in critical thinking and then apply it to islam. But be careful becasue islam prescribes death to apostates, which historically have included muslims who have questioned islam.

 

[Yerusalyim]

My earlier statements notwithstanding, following are photos sent by a friend of a protest in London. Can you understand why we have an image of Islam being violent, ESPECIALLY with no voices in Islam CONDEMNING this behavior and rhetoric.
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[ralphinal]

This was a good and necessary tax on the non muslim people living in the war area. They were to be protected people and they were not required to fight any one. But rather the Muslims will guarantee their safety, in lieu of Jizyah (tax).

In America, this is called a protection raquet. You pay us or you get hurt. It was generally done by gangsters.

 

[thedavidwilson]

In America, this is called a protection raquet. You pay us or you get hurt. It was generally done by gangsters.

But wait, I thought islam is peacful?

 

[inJESUS]

Usually am not a fan of this topic, but when one says Islam is peaceful, or that it spread peacefully, the first thing that comes to mind is the futuhat. It is called wars of conquest. Do wars of conquest happen “peacefully”?

Damascus , Syria, Persia, Egypt , Armenia ,Andalusia or Crete ecc, where they attacking Muslims or is it Muslims who raided these cities?

 

[ralphinal]

But wait, I thought islam is peacful?

And the mafia did good work in the community.

This train of thought just pushed me closer to deciding that Islam is not what it claims to be.

 

[thedavidwilson]

And the mafia did good work in the community.

This train of thought just pushed me closer to deciding that Islam is not what it claims to be.

Islam is peaceful as long as us Kaffirs know out place and “submit”.

 

[ralphinal]

Islam is peaceful as long as us Kaffirs know out place and “submit”.

And pay the tax. And they claim that the other Semites are greedy…

 

[Delta2]

And pay the tax. And they claim that the other Semites are greedy…

Not any tax, must be a heavy tax, in order to impose you the conversion…otherwise you will starve to death

Once you converted, you get your money back to give food to your family

That occurred in Portugal and Spain, in all submitted countries

This is the most evil religion I ever found

People in the west that are muslims, they just don’t know nothing, why are they here in a catholic forum ?

Go to a high religious muslim forum, and see all the darkness they preach and teach each other

www.turntoislam.com

A good darkness forum, the true face of Islam revealed each day

Be there, stay there, feel Islam

• The extremely arrogance thru other religions is overwhelming, the opposite of this forum where I see some muslims defending their faith without fear

 

[Eden]

**Not true at all. Please see the verses of the Quran of chapter 9, specially 9:5.
**

Surah 9:5

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Matthew 5:38-48

"You have heard that it was said, ‘38 An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well. 40 If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well. 41 Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow. 43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 ** But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,** 45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? 48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[planten]

The zakat is a muslim poor tax and regular prayers refer to muslim prayers. I thought only muslims had to pay zakat? Are you changing islamic jurisprudence?

**Because repentence is mentioned. That is always from a bad way of life to go to a better way of life. That is like asking for forgiveness. It appears that the verse is telling about any of those pagans who may repent and convert to Islam, they need not be harmed.

That was the order of the day for that time and place only. Not forever and all places. These verses are specific to the situation a tMakkah at that time.Please note it.**

 

[thedavidwilson]

**
That was the order of the day for that time and place only. Not forever and all places. These verses are specific to the situation a tMakkah at that time.Please note it.**

This statement contradicts 1400 years of islamic jurisprudence. What other verses in the quran don’t apply anymore? Could you make a quran for us that is only the verses that apply now?

I think it is great you are trying to bastardize islam into a peaceful religion. The world, esp the millions threatened by islamic violence, needs that. A similar effort is going on in Turkey where they are trying to pick out the violent verses like 9:5 and say they only applied at a certain time in the past. I pray for them because every time a muslim tries to do this their life threatened since apostasy is punishable by death in islam.