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grandfather
Guest
What verses tell about flying airplanes into buildings full of civilians and bombing trains full of civilians and blowing up women and children?
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thedavidwilson
Guest
These:
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an:8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an:8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”
Qur’an:3:150 “Soon We shall strike terror into the hearts of the Infidels, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be in the Fire!”
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planten
Guest
That is political struggle. The people may have been highly oppressed or misguided. That was nothing religious matter.
I am not to support those people who attack and kill people. My religion also teaches me the same thing i.e. not to kill any innocent person. There are extremists in every religion. But they are not justified. I do not support any extremist or terrorist.
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planten
Guest
That disbeliever is a Kaafir, meaning utter enemy of Islam. He is not a simple non-believer, non-muslim who is comfortably sitting at his home not trying to fight the muslims. Please not the word Kafir in that verse. Then know that it fully allowed to fight the kafirs only. Please read verse 9:3 with it.
Understand the word “Fitnah”. It is persecution. The early christians were persecuted. That was a Fitnah perpetuated by the Roman Kafirs. So Islam enjoins the Muslims to fight against those who oppress and persecute any law abiding people for their religious beliefs.
Please note that this verse is also about the Kafirs, i.e. the utter enemies of Islam. It is not to fight any peaceful non-believer. Islam says that every one is free to believe or not. There is no compulsion in (any) religion. (Al-Quran verse 2:256)
There is no such verse. I could not find.
That is the right policy. Either there should be fight (war) or no fight. During war it is not necessary to leave the battle half finished. Anyhow please read this verse with the verse 8:65. It is also about the war with the Kafirs, the enemies.
This is verse 3;151 (not 3;150). Please see that it is also about the Kafirs who are the enemies of Islam and christianity and Judaism. They are those people who fight against the religious people trying to stop the spread of message. It is not about the peaceful people at all. Any one can have any faith without fear. Nobody will kill him, if the person is peaceful. That is the teaching of islam.
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Delta2
Guest
Do you have a corrupted quran ?
I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
Surat 8-12
quranexplorer.com/quran/
A little different, but the meaning is the same. I don’t know Arabic, but perhaps in Arabic that verse should be even worst
The message are always the same : kill, kill, kill, kill, kill…the verbatim word of satan
When a suicide bomber kills, I always think : one more will meet the prophet in hell
What a wonderful life he had, totally the opposite of the purity preached by Jesus and Apostles who all died because of the truth
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=240333
**
And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2 Timothy, 4-4**
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grandfather
Guest
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inJESUS
Guest
Futuhat? anyone?
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planten
Guest
Qur’an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
That transaltion was not enough and correct to lead to the verse. And look that you have given the words (slightly different). I have seen the verse it is clearly telling the peaceful people (Muslims and peaceful christians, all) how to deal with their enemies, i.e. the Kafirs. Please note that the word Kafir is used in this verse too. Kafir is the one who is an enemy of the prophets and their message. He vehemently opposes and even goes to war against the submitting people.
We have noted that there were quite a few of such people in the time of Jesus too. That king pharoah was a Kafir in the time of Moses. So there were enemies of islam in the time of Muhammad who were always fighting the Muslims of that time. Please try to understand. And now you are wandering off into undue accusations. Do you want that i tell you the bad life history of Jesus as noted in your own bible and as it is being described in the films tellingabout his secret marriage and even having a son? Jesus had a son? Some grave is recently discovered.
It appears that you are not a real christian.
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Delta2
Guest
First don’t be offended because this is not a personal attack
If that grave exists then it means that Jesus died, and didn’t ascend to heaven contradicting both the bible and quran, your quran is also wrong
Sura 4:156-159
“… Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; …”
I think you don’t believe in that, it was a atheist documentary, and I’m sure you don’t agree
What is important for me is that “the false prophet” was predicted hundred years before Muhammad, the apostles said that the spirit of anti-Christ was already working
Every people that says that the verbatim word of God is not made flesh…that’s anti-Christ
All the gnosticism in the earliest days of Christianity, Nag hammadi library is a good source for that writings. From them we can see more clearly the arguments and the theology the gnostics used in their attacks on the Catholic Church.
Satan the Spirit of Lies, planing, and preparing everything until the coming of the False Prophet, then that evil spirit changed the Holy Trinity to something like :
- Satan himself in the rule of the Father
- The anti-Christ in the rule of the Son
- The false prophet in the rule of the Holy Spirit
Satan made the plan, the gnosticism is that plan made visible in earlier sects with heresies and scriptures, the False Prophet as the “Holy Spirit” teaches all the truth to the humanity
Everything is foretold in the Bible if you just have eyes to look
In the book of revelation there is a clear vision of Kabaa and Jizah ( pol-tax to the kafirs ) :
Revelation 13:14-15
Even Muhammad foretold that the destiny is Hell
Volume 1, Book 12, Number 770:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The people said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection?” He replied, “Do you have any doubt in seeing the full moon on a clear (not cloudy) night?” They replied, “No, O Allah’s Apostle!” He said, “Do you have any doubt in seeing the sun when there are no clouds?” They replied in the negative. He said, "You will see Allah (your Lord) in the same way. On the Day of Resurrection, people will be gathered and He will order the people to follow what they used to worship. So some of them will follow the sun, some will follow the moon, and some will follow other deities; and only this nation (Muslims) will be left with its hypocrites. Allah will come to them and say, ‘I am Your Lord.’ They will say, 'We shall stay in this place till our Lord comes to us and when our Lord will come, we will recognize Him. Then Allah will come to them again and say, ‘I am your Lord.’ They will say, ‘You are our Lord.’ Allah will call them, and As-Sirat (a bridge) will be laid across Hell and I (Muhammad) shall be the first amongst the Apostles to cross it with my followers. Nobody except the Apostles will then be able to speak and they will be saying then, ‘O Allah! Save us. O Allah Save us.’
There will be hooks like the thorns of Sa’dan in Hell. Have you seen the thorns of Sa’dan?" The people said, “Yes.” He said, "These hooks will be like the thorns of Sa’dan but nobody except Allah knows their greatness in size and these will entangle the people according to their deeds; some of them will fall and stay in Hell forever; others will receive punishment (torn into small pieces) and will get out of Hell, till when Allah intends mercy on whomever He likes amongst the people of Hell, He will order the angels to take out of Hell those who worshipped none but Him alone. The angels will take them out by recognizing them from the traces of prostrations, for Allah has forbidden the (Hell) fire to eat away those traces. So they will come out of the Fire, it will eat away from the whole of the human body except the marks of the prostrations. At that time they will come out of the Fire as mere skeletons. The Water of Life will be poured on them and as a result they will grow like the seeds growing on the bank of flowing water…
This Hadith says that Mohammed is not in heaven right now, he is in hell…and is there where he will stay as the bible says
That’s why I love the true God, because God always force the truth to be unveiled, even in the darkness
For there is nothing hid, which shall not be made manifest: neither was it made secret, but that it may come abroad.
Mark, 4-22
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Angelos
Guest
Below are the translations of the same verse taken from two different Koran versions:
Surah 8:12-13 When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. [8.13] This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Apostle; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Apostle-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting (evil).
The problems of horrid punishment and religious violence in the Islamic scripture cannot be solved with the help of errors in translation.
It is obvious that this Koran verse asks only Muslims to punish everyone opposing Allah and His messenger, for the Koran presents Mohammad as the seal of the prophets and regards everyone rejecting to believe in Mohammad (Jews and Christians are included!) as infidels. Another Koran verse claims that the true religion in Allah’s presence is but Islam! Additionally, there are various verses in the Koran that deliberately equate Jews and Christians with polytheists (kafirs).
How did Jesus deal with such few people in His time? What did Jesus’ apostles and disciples do when they faced resistance and aggression? Please bring your evidence from the New Testament whch will prove that Christians were commanded by God to punish the enemies of their faith.
Please inform us Christians of the so-called bad life history of Jesus! Then please show us the New Testament verses that depict Jesus as a man having a secret marriage and a son. (You must be confusing our tenets with the atheistic hoax of an anti-Christian group of people struggling to distort Christian history.) What grave are you talking about? What do all these arguments of yours have to do with violence in the Koran???
Is it really your job to judge people and declare them saints or condemn them to Hell???
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inJESUS
Guest
I guess Planten is converting to Ahmadiyya…Jesus was crucified but did not die, His tomb was found…what is left is saying Ghulam Ahmad was another prophet by Allah sent to correct the misinterpretations of all those who came before Ghulam Ahmad 
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Eden
Guest
Please remember, everyone, that in Islam no non-Muslim is innocent, as we are considered “at war” with allah for rejecting Islam. Muslims rely on our ignorance of what “innocent” means to lull us into a sense of security that we share the same values regarding innocent human life, when we don’t.
“Can Infidels Be Innocents?”
danielpipes.org/blog/2005/08/can-infidels-be-innocents.html
Zachariah, referring to the London passengers: "They’re kuffar kafirs]. They’re not people who are innocent. The people who are innocent are the people who are with us or those who are living under the Islamic state."**
Omar Bakri Mohammed, the sect’s leader, who on July 20 publicly condemned the deaths of “innocents,” but at the Selby Centre in Wood Green, north London, on July 22 referred to the 7/7 bombers as the “fantastic four” and explained that his grief for the “innocent” applied only to Muslims. "Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."
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Angelos
Guest
Wish him good luck with his arguments already rebutted on this forum.I guess Planten is converting to Ahmadiyya…Jesus was crucified but did not die, His tomb was found…what is left is saying Ghulam Ahmad was another prophet by Allah sent to correct the misinterpretations of all those who came before Ghulam Ahmad
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planten
Guest
**Sorry, no one is alive now. All have died,Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. They used to pray to God. Even Jesus did that. He had a God. All prophets have passed away. None is alive. But Muhammad is alive in spiritual sense. His message is alive and God replies to the prayers and requests of the followers of Muhammad. So we say that Prophet Muhammad is alive.
Any prophet whose message is dead is himself dead. By following that prophet one cannot communicate with God and God does not respond to the requests of his followers then that prophet may be considered as dead in all respects. But we say that they beloved of God and they live like all the martyrs.
Who was the father of Jesus. it is a mystery. Perhaps you can explain it. As far as we know. Joseph the carpentar was officially known as the father of Jesus. And Jesus was the son of a woman, as per Quran. He was the son of Mary. So please take up the subject of the father of Jesus. God may be symbolically and spiritually called the father of every one. So there will be no specialty for Jesus alone.**
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Swan
Guest
Be sure to tune in next time for another episode of “My God can beat up your god”. 
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morning_star777
Guest
“sorry,no one is alive now.all have died,abraham,moses,jesus and muhammad”.mr planten even jesus had died?but how if he didn’t die on a cross then i which way jesus died?will you explain pls?your quran claims that jesus raised to heaven by allah.its very confusing!
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morning_star777
Guest
mr.planten if allah took jesus in heaven alive (quran claims) then when and where jesus died?i think he died in heaven correct?
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inJESUS
Guest
no the general belief is that Issa was raised to Allah without dying, and will come back after thousands of years to preach Islam, get married and die.
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thedavidwilson
Guest
I thought the quran was completely from God alone. Was Muhammad God? What was Mohammed’s message? Is it in another book besides the quran; since all of the quran is from God right? Should muslims, then, be properly called Mohammedans?
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morning_star777
Guest
brothe inJESUS i know this muslim belive.but they belive that jesus will back and then will die.but planten claimed that jesus already died.cuz he told that.“sorry,no one is alive now”!so isn’t mean that planten belive about jesus’ death?
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