Islam: Truth and Myth

[Matt25]

Franze:

And what have you said Matt25, I know you have a good heart and you are a good catholic, but the comparations you have done, bother a lot.

Thankyou for your kind words. The point I was making is that some very anti-Muslim Catholics who ignore Nostra Aetate say that Islam is not a religion of peace. Many of these same people, again ignoring Church teaching, say that Christianity supports the use of nuclear weapons against civillian targets like Hiroshima while remaining a religion of peace.

It is my belief that Christianity is a religion of peace that does not endorse the killing of innocent civillians. It is also my belief that Islam is a religion of peace that does not endorse the killing of innocent civillians. It is further my belief that both my previous belief’s form part of the Deposit of Faith handed on to us from Vatican II

 

[Matt25]

hawk:

Matt it does not mean peace, but submission.

It comes from the same root word as salaam, which is peace.

However peace is only ever attained after submission.

Submission of muslims to Allah.

Submission of Non-muslims to muslims, and indirectly Allah.

Peace

Submission to God is what Christians believe in. Submission to God does not mean submission to any one group of believers you are grievously misrepresenting Islam here.

On the subject of submission Pope Benedict said this in Cologne recently vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20050821_20th-world-youth-day_en.html

We all eat the one bread, and this means that we ourselves become one. In this way, adoration, as we said earlier, becomes union. God no longer simply stands before us as the One who is totally Other. He is within us, and we are in him. His dynamic enters into us and then seeks to spread outwards to others until it fills the world, so that his love can truly become the dominant measure of the world.

    I like to illustrate this new step urged upon us by the Last Supper by drawing out the different nuances of the word "adoration" in Greek and in Latin. The Greek word is *proskynesis*. It refers to the gesture of submission, the recognition of God as our true measure, supplying the norm that we choose to follow. It means that freedom is not simply about enjoying life in total autonomy, but rather about living by the measure of truth and goodness, so that we ourselves can become true and good. This gesture is necessary even if initially our yearning for freedom makes us inclined to resist it.

    We can only fully accept it when we take the second step that the Last Supper proposes to us. The Latin word for adoration is *ad-oratio* - mouth to mouth contact, a kiss, an embrace, and hence, ultimately love. Submission becomes union, because he to whom we submit is Love. In this way submission acquires a meaning, because it does not impose anything on us from the outside, but liberates us deep within.

 

[Ghosty]

1. The US has never had a colony anywhere, much less the middle east.

Just want to point out before someone else does that this is incorrect. Hawaii and the Phillipines were, and Puerto Rico, American Samoa, and Guam are. We don’t have any colonies in the Middle East, however, nor have we ever.

 

[His_Truth]

Matt25:

The word Islam shares the same root as the word Salaam meaning “Peace”, see islam.about.com/blintroa.htm hence those who say Islam is a religion of peace have a good case.

It amuses me no end that those who insist that Islam is a violent religion that justifies terrorism are often the same people that say Christianity is a religion of peace that justifies nuking Hiroshima and/or pre-emptively invading Iraq.

Islam does not mean “Peace”. It means “submission to the will of Allah”. Sharing the same Arabic root does not make them synonymous which they are not.

 

[exoflare]

His Truth:

Islam does not mean “Peace”. It means “submission to the will of Allah”. Sharing the same Arabic root does not make them synonymous which they are not.

I thought it just simply meant “submission” but maybe you’re right?

 

[Tony_Hage]

Matt25:

The word Islam shares the same root as the word Salaam meaning “Peace”, see islam.about.com/blintroa.htm hence those who say Islam is a religion of peace have a good case.

It amuses me no end that those who insist that Islam is a violent religion that justifies terrorism are often the same people that say Christianity is a religion of peace that justifies nuking Hiroshima and/or pre-emptively invading Iraq.

No offence Matt25 and speaking from knowledge of Islam and Arabic, your quote is wrong: Islam in Arabic means submission and not peace – Islam is the religion of submission and not peace!

And applying “submission” by Muslims against non-Muslim infidels, comes with a heavy price, no justice, and no peace – examples are plentiful in the world .

For your “Christianity is a religion of peace that justifies nuking Hiroshima and/or pre-emptively invading Iraq”, I am sorry to say you are mixing not only apples and oranges, but watermelons too: have you seen the latest Vatican documents and Papal encyclicals, communiqués, etc… about war, violence, terrorism, etc…??? – that is Catholic and Chrisitianity!

Tony

 

[r.gonzales]

Tony Hage:

No offence Matt25 and speaking from knowledge of Islam and Arabic, your quote is wrong: Islam in Arabic means submission and not peace – Islam is the religion of submission and not peace!

seems like you need to read a bit more carefully. matt25 said that islam and the word salaam, which means peace, share the same root word, and he’s correct. the root word they both are derived from is the word salama, which means to make safe. and since the word islam is derived from it, it shares some of it’s meaning. islam is the peaceful submission of one’s soul to Allah’s religion, which is to single Him out in all forms of worship and divinity, single Him out in lordship and to single Him out with respect to His perfect names and attributes, and to obey the laws and legislations that He sent His final prophet and messenger with. it doesn’t merely mean “submission”, it carries the connotation that this submission and resignation is for Allah and to Allah. simple submission and surrender in arabic is “istislaam”. and you can confirm this by checking the hans wehr arabic-english dictionary.
Tony Hage:

And applying “submission” by Muslims against non-Muslim infidels, comes with a heavy price, no justice, and no peace – examples are plentiful in the world .

just like the actions of many christians don’t represent christian beliefs, the actions of most of todays muslims do not represent islamic beliefs. so for you to judge the religion by the actions of its adherents, especially when you consider the fact that the majority of muslims today are ignorant of their religion and its rulings, is not really fair or just.

 

[Contarini]

Adonis33:

I should not have to search a web site looking for a condemnation of terrorism. They should be more public.

That’s just laughable. You’re essentially saying that someone has to chase you down and force you to listen to the facts, or the facts don’t exist.

The plain facts are that many Islamic leaders condemn terrorism, and if you cared about the truth, you would take all of ten minutes to surf the Web and inform yourself. Your wilful ignorance is no one’s fault but your own.

Edwin

 

[meedo]

Contarini you are again right.

Just a note here for Adonis : when do you think your media in the US for example has ever cared to publicise anything good about Muslims? Would we go banging on CNN to FORCE THEM to put us on TV?

If you look closely you will find tat the US media is very self centered and for the USA people the US is nearly the whole world. People dont know where EGYPT is on the Map !! do u think the media will really care to publicise a condenantion of a scholar half teh earth away ?

The truth is that the media wants money and attention and excitement. You can rarely depend on it for truths.

Peace

 

[Lance]

Matt25:

The word Islam shares the same root as the word Salaam meaning “Peace”, see islam.about.com/blintroa.htm hence those who say Islam is a religion of peace have a good case.

It amuses me no end that those who insist that Islam is a violent religion that justifies terrorism are often the same people that say Christianity is a religion of peace that justifies nuking Hiroshima and/or pre-emptively invading Iraq.

Christianity did not justify the nuking of Hiroshima, the sneak attack on Pearl Harbour and almost 4 years of Japanese atrocities against our POW’s did that.

 

[Lance]

Matt25:

cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

Why should a Christian American care about CAIR? Read the following from A J Whitehead to see how they feel about us.

CAIR: Supporting Law Enforcement?

The Monterey Herald carried an AP story about a Federal Bureau of
Investigation (FBI) undercover operation that resulted in the arrests of two
men on gun charges. Apparently, the arrests were the result of
months-long extensive sureillance of two Sacramento, CA mosques. The FBI
recorded conversations, used closed circuit television, and undercover agents
in their investigation.

montereyherald.com/mld/montereyherald/news/politics/12612950.htm

Basim Elkarra, executive director of the Sacramento, CA branch of the
Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), had this to say:

"We’re interested to see to what extent they’re using informants, and
whether there’s entrapment.”

CAIR has repeatedly stated in the past that it is committed to
partnering with law enforcement to battle radical Islam. However, instead of
congratulating the FBI for capturing two Muslims who posed a threat to
public safety and cast the Muslim community in a bad light, CAIR seems to
be more concerned about “entrapment” and “informants.”

CAIR’s statements suggest some interesting questions: Does CAIR object
to the use of informants? Does CAIR believe the use of undercover
agents to identify and arrest violent extremists before they harm innocent
Americans is a problem? Does CAIR believe the Muslem community has an
obligation to cooperate with law enforcement?

 

[Contarini]

Lance:

Christianity did not justify the nuking of Hiroshima, the sneak attack on Pearl Harbour and almost 4 years of Japanese atrocities against our POW’s did that.

Nothing justifies mass murder, and if your religion doesn’t tell you that, then there’s something wrong with your religion. That’s the point being made, I think.

Edwin

 

[Lance]

Contarini:

Nothing justifies mass murder, and if your religion doesn’t tell you that, then there’s something wrong with your religion. That’s the point being made, I think.

Edwin

When you are at war and you kill the enemy it is not murder. I for one am glad I got to know my uncle who was on a ship off the coast of Japan waiting for the invasion order. His chance of survival was very slim. As for my religion I will put it up against yours any day of the week.

 

[Contarini]

Civilians are not the enemy. Ever. Period.

And I presume that by “my religion” you mean Episcopalianism? From my point of view, it’s the same religion as yours, just a somewhat different form thereof. But frankly I prefer your “religion” to mine as well. I became Episcopalian only because it was as close as I could come to Catholicism without breaking with my Protestant heritage. Now the picture looks quite different, and the main thing keeping me Episcopalian is that I can’t decide whether to become Methodist or Catholic.

Edwin

 

[Lance]

Contarini:

Civilians are not the enemy. Ever. Period.

And I presume that by “my religion” you mean Episcopalianism? From my point of view, it’s the same religion as yours, just a somewhat different form thereof. But frankly I prefer your “religion” to mine as well. I became Episcopalian only because it was as close as I could come to Catholicism without breaking with my Protestant heritage. Now the picture looks quite different, and the main thing keeping me Episcopalian is that I can’t decide whether to become Methodist or Catholic.

Edwin

They are when they are manufacturing the tools of war and support the troops in comitting war crimes.

 

[exoflare]

Contarini:

Civilians are not the enemy. Ever. Period.

And I presume that by “my religion” you mean Episcopalianism? From my point of view, it’s the same religion as yours, just a somewhat different form thereof. But frankly I prefer your “religion” to mine as well. I became Episcopalian only because it was as close as I could come to Catholicism without breaking with my Protestant heritage. Now the picture looks quite different, and the main thing keeping me Episcopalian is that I can’t decide whether to become Methodist or Catholic.

Edwin

Methodist??

 

[Contarini]

It’s my background. Not the UMC per se–my folks left the Methodist Episcopal Church a long time ago. But the small denomination they founded has pretty much folded, and my parents are now Methodists. As is my wife (though she’s about as Catholic a Methodist as you can get).

This is not a subject for this thread. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to know more.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Lance:

They are when they are manufacturing the tools of war and support the troops in comitting war crimes.

No, I don’t think so. I take a pretty rigorous view, granted. But murder is serious business. Avoiding murder is a lot more important than something as trivial as winning a war (see Newman’s remarks on how it’s better for the whole universe to perish than for a person to commit one venial sin). If (as I assume you do) we claim to be prolife, we need always to give life the benefit of the doubt on issues other than abortion!

Edwin

 

[exoflare]

Contarini:

It’s my background. Not the UMC per se–my folks left the Methodist Episcopal Church a long time ago. But the small denomination they founded has pretty much folded, and my parents are now Methodists. As is my wife (though she’s about as Catholic a Methodist as you can get).

This is not a subject for this thread. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to know more.

Edwin

Gotcha.

 

[kristyn]

Meedo,
I was wondering if you heard thru the Egyptian news of the woman and her two young children who were buried alive by her husband ( a muslim). They were found alive after 16 days, and when the young girl was asked by the authorities how she is still alive, she responded by saying a man in white with wounds on both hands came everyday to wake them up, and make her mother nurse them. The Egyptian authorites and news have said this could only be Jesus, “because only he could do that”. This just happened, so I am wondering have you heard it?
blessings,
kristyn