Islam - Wife Beating & Women's Rights

[BelFarfalla]

The discussion started as an off topic discussion on another thread (see link below).

Would you agree man can beat women, If I provide evidence for equal rights of woman?

Prove that women in Islam have equal rights to men.

NOTE:----------------------------------------------

[Qur’an 4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD’s commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, thendesert* them in bed, then you may* (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them

This discussion started on another thread. It was hijacking the thread so I’m moving the discussion here. Here a link to the other thread so you can see what as been said to date.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158429&page=14

 

[BelFarfalla]

Would you agree man can beat women, If I provide evidence for equal rights of woman?

No I will never agree that a men can beat women under any circumstance. That you and your religion think this is acceptable is just plain sick.

There is a fundamental reason why you will not provide proof that women in under your religious laws are equal to men…. Because they are not.

Why are men & women not equal in your religion and the laws of it?

Men can have 4 wives… women can only have one husband.

Men are allowed under law and religious mandate to beat their wife(wives). Women cannot beat their husbands. (Nether should be able to beat the other by the way.)

Men can get a divorce without any reason. Women can get divorced only under certain circumstances if at all.

Woman must cover from head to foot and hide under yards of cloth. Men have no such restriction.

Women cannot leave the house without permission of their husband, father or male head of family.

Generally woman cannot even walk outside without her husband or a ‘safe’ male family member to escort her.

Women cannot travel without her husband’s permission (father is she is single).

Women inherit ½ as much as male siblings. A woman gets only 1/8th of her husband’s estate when he dies.

Those are only a few of the inequities.

 

[exoflare]

Wow, how did all our resident forum jihadis let THIS one sink to the bottom untouched? Anyone?

 

[BelFarfalla]

Wow, how did all our resident forum jihadis let THIS one sink to the bottom untouched? Anyone?

Did you read the posts that I linked to?

At least one of our resident Muslims has clearly stated that men have the right to beat women. That is why I started this thread.

Every Muslim man I have ever spoken too agrees that they have the right. Shri’ah law states that they should beat their wives if the wives do not obey.

 

[tawheedah]

NOTE:----------------------------------------------

[Qur’an 4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD’s commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, thendesert* them in bed, then you may* (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them

This discussion started on another thread. It was hijacking the thread so I’m moving the discussion here. Here a link to the other thread so you can see what as been said to date.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158429&page=14

You said it yourself, AS A LAST RESORT, a man is permitted to get physical with his wife, meaning to “strike” her, not to beat her. And not hard enough to hurt her and leave a bruise. Yes there is a difference, and it shouldn’t ever come to that anyway. A man that puts his hands on his wife as a reaction is wrong and committing a sin. You are supposed to talk to her first, then separate yourself from her, and only as a last resort to strike her.

Also, “wife beating” the way we think of it (punhing, kicking, etc) is clearly haram. And a problem is that there are some crazy men out there who might justify it with this ayat. And this ayat should not be looked at alone, but with other Quranic ayats regarding treatment of women e.g the ayats about treating wives well, and the ayat about a woman being allowed to divorce her husband if he is cruel to her.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I have heard it said that Islam is stuck in the “Middle Ages” but that’s not so. Because the “Middle Ages” is too far advanced a time period to compare to much of the Islam we see in evidence today. In many ways, Islam is stuck in the 700’s.

But I also don’t know why this is a surprise to anyone. Didn’t anyone see “Not without my daughter” ~ the movie that was out YEARS ago? Where the American woman married an Iranian man and then ended up in Iran, basically imprisoned in her own home, and had to resort to smuggling both herself & her child out of the country?

All of this HORROR was going on before 9/11, we just pay more attention to it now. Beating women? that’s just the tip of the iceberg! How about drowning your daughter for lifting her veil to smile to a young man, all to preserve the “family honor”? PUHLEEZE!!

And another question, why are American feminists utterly silent on this issue? If the rights of women are important, shouldn’t the rights of Muslim women also be important? Or are Muslim women also an underclass of feminism AS WELL AS in Islam?

Just a thought…

“The difference between a lady and a flower girl is not how she behaves, it’s how she’s treated.” … My Fair Lady/Pygmalion

 

[BelFarfalla]

You said it yourself, AS A LAST RESORT, a man is permitted to get physical with his wife, meaning to “strike” her, not to beat her. And not hard enough to hurt her and leave a bruise. Yes there is a difference, and it shouldn’t ever come to that anyway. A man that puts his hands on his wife as a reaction is wrong and committing a sin. You are supposed to talk to her first, then separate yourself from her, and only as a last resort to strike her.

Also, “wife beating” the way we think of it (punhing, kicking, etc) is clearly haram. And a problem is that there are some crazy men out there who might justify it with this ayat. And this ayat should not be looked at alone, but with other Quranic ayats regarding treatment of women e.g the ayats about treating wives well, and the ayat about a woman being allowed to divorce her husband if he is cruel to her.

I am so disappointed. I thought that you were going to be the voice of reason here. I was counting on that. Guess I was wrong.

You are a woman who was raised as a Christian in the USA right? And you support this?

 

[tawheedah]

Here’s a link with several sublinks that discusses
Islam and Wife Beating. I would say more on the matter, but I’ve seen how some of the posters here don’t really want the answer so much as to bash the person answering the question. (not directed at the OP)

Women in Islam have many rights, including the right to vote long before women were allowed to vote even in the U.S.

Status Of Women In Islam

 

[maryjk]

You said it yourself, AS A LAST RESORT, a man is permitted to get physical with his wife, meaning to “strike” her, not to beat her. And not hard enough to hurt her and leave a bruise. Yes there is a difference, and it shouldn’t ever come to that anyway. A man that puts his hands on his wife as a reaction is wrong and committing a sin. You are supposed to talk to her first, then separate yourself from her, and only as a last resort to strike her.

And you see this as OK? Striking a grown woman?

So what does it say about her striking him back? Because I have to say, if someone hit me, I would be hitting back.

Originally Posted by Khalfan
Would you agree man can beat women, If I provide evidence for equal rights of woman?

Unless when I strike back and nothing happens to me, there are not equal rights. And Khalfan is using the word beat, not strike. And the Qur’an uses the same word, beat, not strike.

 

[tawheedah]

I am so disappointed. I thought that you were going to be the voice of reason here. I was counting on that. Guess I was wrong.

You are a woman who was raised as a Christian in the USA right? And you support this?

No personally, I have seen too much and a man better not ever put his hands on me. You wanted explanation of that verse, I tried to give you the objective view, not my personal opinion. Honestly, no I don’t support this.

My personal thing is like I said, I am a domestic violence survivor (before Islam), and if I do get married, that man better not ever even think about putting his hands on me or I’m gone. No ifs ands or buts. I will have it in the contract that if he places his hands on me once I will be getting a divorce.

My personal opinion and feelings are very strong when it comes to domestic violence. I am a survivor and I will not ever allow anyone to even push me or try to manipulate me ever again after what I’ve been through.

There is, however a problem within the Ummah with some Muslim men who take that verse and try to use it to justify them abusing their wives, which there is no justification for.

 

[tawheedah]

And you see this as OK? Striking a grown woman?

So what does it say about her striking him back? Because I have to say, if someone hit me, I would be hitting back.

I don’t know if the Quran says anything about striking him back, but if someone puts their hands on me, I’m not going to even be around long enough to hit him back, I’m leaving and never coming back.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Here are videos and a couple of transcripts with Muslim scholars exaplaining the need to beat wives and how to do it. There’s a lot more but this should be enough…

Wife Beating in Islam - The Rules
youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

More Rules for how to beat your wife…
video.aol.com/video-search/id/2735728753%between%

Women’s Rights In Islam: Wife Beating - “its not an assault, its discipline”
youtube.com/watch?v=i4mpwqwg2MY

Islam - Wife Must Consent to Husband’s Desires
youtube.com/watch?v=46yJ2Ho__QU&mode=related&search=

Wife Beating in Islam - Only a rod will help!
video.aol.com/video-search/id/2111403233

Only 10 blowes are allowed
video.aol.com/video-search/id/2861908625

**Program on Imposing Discipline in the Family: Hosted by Jasem Muhammad
Al-Mutawah, Expert on Family Matters **
middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/transcriptimposing.htm

%between%
video.aol.com/video-search/id/262757636

 

[Verisimilitude]

There is, however a problem within the Ummah with some Muslim men who take that verse and try to use it to justify them abusing their wives, which there is no justification for.

Do you sympathize with this woman’s view of Islam?

 

[BelFarfalla]

No personally, I have seen too much and a man better not ever put his hands on me. You wanted explanation of that verse, I tried to give you the objective view, not my personal opinion. Honestly, no I don’t support this. .

Thanks for explaining the verse. I know the explaination well as I’ve heard it… the point is that I do not buy the explaination. To be honest no decent person will buy it.

My personal thing is like I said, I am a domestic violence survivor (before Islam), and if I do get married, that man better not ever even think about putting his hands on me or I’m gone. No ifs ands or buts. I will have it in the contract that if he places his hands on me once I will be getting a divorce.

My personal opinion and feelings are very strong when it comes to domestic violence. I am a survivor and I will not ever allow anyone to even push me or try to manipulate me ever again after what I’ve been through.

There is, however a problem within the Ummah with some Muslim men who take that verse and try to use it to justify them abusing their wives, which there is no justification for.

I’m glad to hear that you are smart enough to put this in your marriage contract when and if you marry.

 

[tawheedah]

Do you sympathize with this woman’s view of Islam?

This woman is a lesbian. That’s the reasoning behind her wanting to “reform” Islam… because how she lives her life is haram. If she was a Catholic, she’d be wanting to reform Catholicism. Would you as a Catholic sympathize with that?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Since Islam is a heresy, and not a religion at all, but instead a form of fascism that promotes murder, what is the point of “reform”. Better to abandom such insanity!

 

[french]

i made three posts about what the hadeeths and quran say on women and such.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=158429&page=24

i got all the hadeeths from a site, and that’s not even half of them. some of them were just too brutal for me to post, and i think those three posts i made show enough of how horrible mohammad was towards women. but of course, if ppl want more, they can request and i can post more lol.

whoever believes islam treats women good…

1. LOL
   2.either you are in the cult and you have made your way of thinking like that (like scientology does to ppl) or you just haven’t read the quran/hadeeths.

 

[BelFarfalla]

This woman is a lesbian. That’s the reasoning behind her wanting to “reform” Islam… because how she lives her life is haram. If she was a Catholic, she’d be wanting to reform Catholicism. Would you as a Catholic sympathize with that?

So you don’t think that Islam needs to be reformed?

Do you support the killing of apostates?

Surely you must support some reform since you do not agree with the idea that a man can beat his wife.

Do you agree with the law that a woman cannot leave her house without her husband’s permission?

 

[tawheedah]

So you don’t think that Islam needs to be reformed?

Do you support the killing of apostates?

Surely you must support some reform since you do not agree with the idea that a man can beat his wife.

Do you agree with the law that a woman cannot leave her house without her husband’s permission?

No I don’t support the killing of apostates or anyone else for that matter. And I know lots of Muslimahs that leave the house without their husband’s accompanying them or “permission”. I don’t think we should try to alter Islam to cater to our sexual preference. No I don’t accept everything that comes with Islam, but I will not commit Zina which is one of the worst and major sins you can commit. I’m not trying to alter Islam to fit with my opinions. I don’t wear hijab all the time, but I’m not going to sit here and try to say that we don’t have to wear it. Ms Itjihad is trying to alter Islam because she wants it to cater to her committing Zina (adultery).

Knowing something is wrong and still doing it is one thing, trying to justify it is another.

 

[BelFarfalla]

No I don’t support the killing of apostates or anyone else for that matter. And I know lots of Muslimahs that leave the house without their husband’s accompanying them or “permission”. I don’t think we should try to alter Islam to cater to our sexual preference. No I don’t accept everything that comes with Islam, but I will not commit Zina which is one of the worst and major sins you can commit. I’m not trying to alter Islam to fit with my opinions. I don’t wear hijab all the time, but I’m not going to sit here and try to say that we don’t have to wear it. Ms Itjihad is trying to alter Islam because she wants it to cater to her committing Zina (adultery).

Knowing something is wrong and still doing it is one thing, trying to justify it is another.

Would you like to see Shari’ah law in place?