Islam

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PeteZaHut

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Can someone give me a basic comparison of Islam to Christianity.

Christianity’s central concept (from my understanding, please add on): Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice on the cross in order to atone for our sins that we could not atone for by ourselves

Islam’s central concept: ?

If Muslims trace their history back to Abraham, why weren’t they Jewish, and thus Christians now?
 
PeteZaHut said:
Can someone give me a basic comparison of Islam to Christianity.

Christianity’s central concept (from my understanding, please add on): Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice on the cross in order to atone for our sins that we could not atone for by ourselves

Islam’s central concept: ?

If Muslims trace their history back to Abraham, why weren’t they Jewish, and thus Christians now?
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we trace our history back to creation; it is not seen as a religion that has a specifically semitic historical past, but is universal. Though, Abraham (pbuh) is, of course, one of the prophets.

the central idea of Islam is that of God as Absolute, and that one ought give oneself, therefore, completely back to God. It is right in the word itself: a muslim is literally ‘one who submits’ [to God, obviously].

Or, to put it differently, God is the One (Wahdat al-Wujud), and so our life is a life of one-ing (tawhid).
 
Christianity’s “basic concept” is a lineage of revelation from God to the Jewish people, leading up to the coming of a Jewish Messiah, who is realized in Jesus. Christ is the Incarnation of the Divine Word, who enters our sinful nature brought upon by Adam and Eve, lives a perfect life, is crucified as a sacrifice, and is resurrected in a spiritually glorified body, vanquishing our death in sin and uniting us with God through the ascension.

Islam’s “basic concept” is that God has given messages of faith in Him to His people, whom were all simply believers (or Muslims), throughout history, with Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Lot, David, Solomon, etc being some of the big ones. The major revelations were the Torah through Moses and the Gospel through Jesus (who is just a prophet and nothing more), and finally through the Quran with Mohammad. Mankind had corrupted the previous messages, hence the need for the Quran, which is to Muslims the final and most perfect revelation by God.

An interesting note: in Judeo-Christian religion, the idea of covenant is applied to an act and specific event (Moses sprinkling blood on the people of Israel, Christ dying on the cross), whereas in Islam a covenant is based more on a specific revelation or order from God to mankind - there is generally no “covenant making act” within Islam’s understand of mankind’s interaction with God. At least not in the sense that Jews and Christians would understand it.
 
PeteZaHut said:
Christianity’s central concept (from my understanding, please add on): Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice on the cross in order to atone for our sins that we could not atone for by ourselves

Islam’s central concept: ?
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Simply no one bears anyone else sins, per (Quran 39:7):

*YUSUFALI: If ye reject (Allah), Truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not ingratitude from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your Return, when He will tell you the truth of all that ye did (in this life). for He knoweth well all that is in (men’s) hearts.
PICKTHAL: If ye are thankless, yet Allah is Independent of you, though He is not pleased with thanklessness for His bondmen; and if ye are thankful He is pleased therewith for you. No laden soul will bear another’s load. Then unto your Lord is your return; and He will tell you what ye used to do. Lo! He knoweth what is in the breasts (of men).
SHAKIR: If you are ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient above all need of you; and He does not like ungratefulness in His servants; and if you are grateful, He likes it in you; and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another; then to your Lord is your return, then will He inform you of what you did; surely He is Cognizant of what is in the breasts.
*
إِنْ تَكْفُرُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَنِيٌّ عَنْكُمْ وَلَا يَرْضَى لِعِبَادِهِ الْكُفْرَ وَإِنْ تَشْكُرُوا يَرْضَهُ لَكُمْ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى ثُمَّ إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ مَرْجِعُكُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ إِنَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ

​
 
PeteZaHut said:
Can someone give me a basic comparison of Islam to Christianity.

Christianity’s central concept (from my understanding, please add on): Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice on the cross in order to atone for our sins that we could not atone for by ourselves

Islam’s central concept: ?

If Muslims trace their history back to Abraham, why weren’t they Jewish, and thus Christians now?
Click to expand...
The title of the thread is Islam.

Judaism and christianity and Islam trace their origin into the strictly Unitarian faith of Abraham. Abraham had two sons, Elder son was Ishmael, born from the Egyptian wife Hagar. Younger one was Issac born from the first wife (and relative) Sarah.

Ishmael was settled in Arabia, far away from kana’an. Issac remained in Kana’an. Ishmael had 12 sons, all named in the bibleOT. Issac had two sons essu and Jacob. Essu was elder son. Jacob was younger, but both brothers were twins.

Jacob snatched the blessings of father Issac which was intended for Essu. Jacob had 12 children, all named in bibleOT. Due to famine in the area, the children of Jacob (and Jacob) had to migrate to Egypt where they had very good time under care of Joseph.

But later they were over powered by the Egyptians and enslaved. Moses came along to relieve the Jews and bring them out of slavery, back towards the land of promise.

The Jews had many prophets and they were chosen and guided, theyhad the book of law (We may call it the bibleOT). But the Jews had a long history of goddness and misbehaviour. God had promised a saviour for the Jews. That was Jesus who arrived at the correct time and correct place and tried to cure the ills of the Jews under domination of the romans. His people (the Jews) did not like it. They opposed him but many followed Jesus too.

The elders of the Jews conspired with the Roman rulers and got Jesus arrested, tried and condemned to be crucified.

Please remember thatupto that time there was no christian or Muslim in the field. There were only Jews and some followers of Jesus who were haunted and persecuted. Nevertheless, they were all Jews.

There was a struggle between the followers of Jesus and the Jews. Outcame another religion called chrisrianity… That was in a way, a modified version of Judaism.

(Continued…)
 
Appearance of Jesus was 1400 years after Moses, the Grand prophet. Jesus preached only for three years. Jews had much differences with the teachings of Jesus. They clashed and a new religion (christianity) was born. The Christians suffered for about 300 years. But they overcame their opponents and became the official religion of Rome.

In return, the christians also persecuted and punished the Jews and displaced them from the land. There were no Muslims at that time as people generally understand the title Muslim.

But actually, Islam tells us that all believers are Muslims.They may be Jews or christians or Moses or Jesus or Abraham.

Since you have asked for some basic comparison…
Can someone give me a basic comparison of Islam to Christianity.

and in the end of your post you have raised a strange question, i.e:

If Muslims trace their history back to Abraham, why weren’t they Jewish, and thus Christians now?

The answer is quite easy. Muhammad came 600 years after Jesus. He was from the line of Ishmael. He was born in 50th generation after Abraham, from his son Ishmael, in Arabia.

First of all, I see that if followers of Jesus had not separated from their ancestors that were Jews, had they remained modified Jews as Jesus had desired, there would have been no christians in the world. All would have been reformed and improved Jews, in Love of God. But such thing did not happen.

Because Jews were spoiled, Messiah was needed to reform them. Similarly, the christians who remained underground for about 300 years, they lost touch with the real teachings of Jesus…
Any one can see the difference in the teachings of the Jews and those of the present day christians. There is Trinity and son of God and Jesus God in church teachings. Jews do not believe that and do not like that at all. The Jews do not believe that Jesus was any good man. They do not consider Jesus as a prophet of God. But christians insist that every one should take Jesus as a God Almighty.

It is clear that there is much difference between Jews and Church beliefs. They cannot unite religiously.

When church beliefs were far away from the real teachings of Judaism and Jesus, God decided to send anoter Comforter, teacher, prophet. That was Muhammad. He was a strict Unitarian, same as Jews. God gave him the revelation as He had done in the past to other messengers.

Muslims do not believe in Trinity (A Triune God). Muslims do not believe in original sin. Muslims do not believe in any God except Allah. Muslims do not believe that Jesus died on the cross. Muslims do not believe that Jesus took away the sins of the sinners. Muslism believe that God sent messengers to all nations. Muslims believe that no one is a born sinner. Muslims believe that Jesus was just another messenger of God, the last messenger in the Jewish line of prophets, under the command of Moses. That Jesus was an independent prophet under the command of Moses, like many other prophets under Moses command. Muslims do not believe that Jesus was God or son of God…

Please read all the above remarks carefully. The Christians do not believe in any of those things. So how can the Muslims become Christians.It is impossible. To become a Jew would be easier for the muslims directly jumping over the christians. I hope you will understand and forgive Muslims for their separate beliefs.
 
PeteZaHut said:
Can someone give me a basic comparison of Islam to Christianity.

Christianity’s central concept (from my understanding, please add on): Christ’s incarnation and sacrifice on the cross in order to atone for our sins that we could not atone for by ourselves

Islam’s central concept: ?

If Muslims trace their history back to Abraham, why weren’t they Jewish, and thus Christians now?
Click to expand...
Other than the names of the Prophets, there is nothing at all that can be compared to the quran.

Muslims consider that right from Adam all prophets were muslims, but than how come there is Judaism, who started it? why is it mentioned in the quran? Why is Christianity mentined in the quran?

Regarding the Crucifiction, they deny that it ever took place and say that at the last moment Jesus was replaced by someone else, but than why did allah allow all the beating and crowning of thorns on Jesus?
 
wwolverine said:
Other than the names of the Prophets, there is nothing at all that can be compared to the quran.

Muslims consider that right from Adam all prophets were muslims, but than how come there is Judaism, who started it? why is it mentioned in the quran? Why is Christianity mentined in the quran?

Regarding the Crucifiction, they deny that it ever took place and say that at the last moment Jesus was replaced by someone else, but than why did allah allow all the beating and crowning of thorns on Jesus?
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wwolverine, we believe in Father (The God Almighty), Jesus (you call the son ) and Gabriel (the holy ghost). We do not believe that Jesus or the ghost are Gods.

About Crucifixion, we believe that Jesus was put on the cross. But did not die on the cross. Jesus lived a long happy healthy life of about 120 years.(As per Hadith) The Quran says “WE gave shelter to both of them ( I.e. Jesus and his mother) after their great trouble, in a very good high place ( RABWAH) .where there are springs and gardens.”

The idea that some one else was on the cross (and not Jesus) is not true. It is not in the Quran or hadith. Some one had tried to fool the Muslims about it. It was originally initiated by some christian monk. We believe that it was Jesus himself on the cross. But he did not die there. He survived the ordeal of the cross, miraculously. His enemies did not succeed in killing Jesus on the cross.
 
planten said:
wwolverine, we believe in Father (The God Almighty), Jesus (you call the son ) and Gabriel (the holy ghost). We do not believe that Jesus or the ghost are Gods.

About Crucifixion, we believe that Jesus was put on the cross. But did not die on the cross. Jesus lived a long happy healthy life of about 120 years.(As per Hadith) The Quran says “WE gave shelter to both of them ( I.e. Jesus and his mother) after their great trouble, in a very good high place ( RABWAH) .where there are springs and gardens.”

The idea that some one else was on the cross (and not Jesus) is not true. It is not in the Quran or hadith. Some one had tried to fool the Muslims about it. It was originally initiated by some christian monk. We believe that it was Jesus himself on the cross. But he did not die there. He survived the ordeal of the cross, miraculously. His enemies did not succeed in killing Jesus on the cross.
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Well Planten,

that must be what Ahmadi muslims feel, thats why there is a difference in the quranic faiths, And that also means the quran you read is different from the ones read by other faiths.

Muslim believe that Jesus was replaced and is in heaven and will come back. Now you say He lived for 120 years, News to me.

Also news to me is that the Holy Ghost is Gabriel, but many a places he is refferred to as Angel,

Also news to me is that Jesus lived a very healthy life, that means he also escaped all the beating and crowning of thorns, which itself was enough for Him to die, but well Three important news conveyed to me by you. Does these also hold with all other sects of muslims???

Also why did you disappear from my Noah question? I thought maybe you are on holidays but you are very much here 🙂
 
wwolverine said:
Well Planten,

that must be what Ahmadi muslims feel, thats why there is a difference in the quranic faiths, And that also means the quran you read is different from the ones read by other faiths.

Muslim believe that Jesus was replaced and is in heaven and will come back. Now you say He lived for 120 years, News to me.

Also news to me is that the Holy Ghost is Gabriel, but many a places he is refferred to as Angel,
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All Muslims believe in God and Jesus and Holy Spirit (Angel Gabriel). It is surprising that most Muslims believe that Jesus was taken up alive to heavens (not necessarily by replacement theory), by some means and that he was not put on the cross at all.

But this belief (that Jesus is alive) is not supported by the Quran or the bibleNT or hadith. So Ahmdis do not believe it. Further more, it is well proved by the Quran that Jesus son of Mary had died a natural death. So, those who believe that Jesus is alive sitting in heaven have no ground to stand. Only the ignorant Muslims are believing that Jesus is alive in heavens. And there a big lot of them too.
Also news to me is that Jesus lived a very healthy life, that means he also escaped all the beating and crowning of thorns, which itself was enough for Him to die, but well Three important news conveyed to me by you. Does these also hold with all other sects of muslims???
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Yes, Allah had promised Jesus that he will not die on the cross. It is history now ( See a book “Jesus in Heaven on Earth”). Jesus migrated to India with his mother, in search of the lost sheep of Israel. Believe it or not.
Also why did you disappear from my Noah question? I thought maybe you are on holidays but you are very much here 🙂
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May be I could not understand your question. I had replied a few times about the flood in the time of Noah. I do not understand why you kept on asking things again and again.

I was away, hospitalised. Best wishes.
 
J C, I do not invent anything. I present what I find on the net or in the books. Ahmadis do not believe that Jesus married mary magdalene in India. It is history now that jesus travelled (Migrated) to India because his burial place is discovered in Kashmir (India). The mother of Jesus (Mary) could not make it to Kashmir. She died and was buried in Murre, a hill station near Rawalpindi (Pakistan). Her grave is still there.
Btw Planten as Christians don’t believe in Gods you are once more wilfully misrepresenting what we actually believe. You have been here long enough to know it’s not what we believe and by this point you are doing it out of bull-headed stupidity or deliberately. Quite frankly I’d suspect the latter. You yourself complained when someone else deviated from the topic that the thread is about Islam. Expect to be held to the same standard yourself.
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J C. I cannot understand you. When father is a God and Jesus the son is a God and Holy spirit is also a God, then we have a few Gods, even though all somehow merged into One God. Do you want that I do not call Jesus as God?? Do you want that I do not say H S is God. What should I do?.

I will somehow agree, even though I do not understood you. If you want, I will never say that Jesus is a god or H S is a god.
 
Planten’s admitted he hasn’t studied the Trinity, therefore it’s quite ironic that he’s pontificating to someone about it.

Actually, pontificating to someone on a topic you admit you really know nothing about is rather rude and arrogant by most standards. 🙂
 
**I would like to apologise for the confrontational and abusive language used here by Jahek Carnelian…

Most of us reading your posts here do NOT consider you to be disingenuous, puerile or stupid. Carnelian attacks you in this way because that is his habit - he finds raw abuse preferable to debate and exploration.

I am truly sorry he has insulted you in this manner, but he does this to other Christians aswell.

Many of us are interested in your faith and your perspectives - and whilst we may not share your faith, we respect what you put forward here as your understanding.

Carnelian is a very wicked and abusive individual… please do not be offended.**
 
Andrew_Phillip said:
I would like to apologise for the confrontational and abusive language used here by Jahek Carnelian…

Most of us reading your posts here do NOT consider you to be disingenuous, puerile or stupid. Carnelian attacks you in this way because that is his habit - he finds raw abuse preferable to debate and exploration.

I am truly sorry he has insulted you in this manner, but he does this to other Christians aswell.

Many of us are interested in your faith and your perspectives - and whilst we may not share your faith, we respect what you put forward here as your understanding.

Carnelian is a very wicked and abusive individual… please do not be offended.
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This entire post is a personal attack that has nothing to do with this thread. Carnelian is responding to one Muslim, planten, who has dishonest methods of debate and has been proven, by his own posts, to have lied or “played dumb” to avoid responding to or dealing with arguments.

I ask that you please refrain from these personal interjections that distract from the topic of the post.

Very good questions, that, as Josh McDowell would say, demand a verdict. 😃

Wait that might be an improper use of the word, but…
 
**Both of you are ganging up to attack planten, with vitriol and personal abuse - now calling him “faithless” as well as describing him as a liar.

Carnelian has been incredibly rude in describing plantens posts as “puerile”, “stupid” and “disingenuous”.

Personal abuse has NO place in these forums, and as one who is following the discussion, I find this approach to other faiths and their understanding most offensive.

You should discuss the issues rather than engage in personal insults and sledging as you both have. Those of us who are interested in an Islamic perspective find your posts to not only be distracting, but also offensive.

I ask you both to desist from such wicked interactions with Islamic members of these forums, and this thread in particular.

My comments are not an attack - they are a defence of the rules of this forum!**
 
**Planten, I hope you are feeling better after your recent hospitalisation.

Can you please explain your view that the Archangel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit?

Also I am curious about your view that the Most Holy Virgin died and is buried bodily in Pakistan?

Can you please elaborate on your beliefs on these two points?

In respect, Andrew.**
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Then report me. 🙂 Otherwise, please do not try to distract from the OP’s subject.
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**The subject of this thread is Islam… and I for one am interested in hearing an Islamic perspective.

I am NOT interested in hearing personal derision, or abuse directed towards anybody.

If I were interested in reporting you or Carnelian, you might both expect a reprimand or ban from the moderators of this thread. I hope that will not be necessary and that you both set your minds to exploring Islamic beliefs - without the personal barbs or hostility.

If either of you continue in this destructive vein, I will report you.**
 
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