Islam

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EzraJacob said:
I will not die for the right to campaign and support violent Jihad, or Nazism.
Both are the enemies, and to support even the right to allow either is treason.

**
That is what is wrong with America. They allow you to have the right to speak and spread ideas that are deadly and held by the enemies of, not only America, but of the whole west**.
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You’re being pig-headed now. The extremist jihadi viewpoint is NOT THAT HELD BY THE GRAND MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS!

As for the second bolded bit, let’s put it this way: free speech iincludes giving people the right to say those things which you don’t agree with. Otherwise it’s not free speech, it’s censorship. It also includes the right to say or believe in any such idea as you see fit.

Also, ever heard the quote ‘the right to throw punches ends at your face’? In short, you can do anything you so wish as long as it harms no-one else*. THE GRAND MAJORITY of Muslims practice their religion in such a way as to not harm anyone else.
  • Note: I’m not endorsing those things that directly violate God’s Law in saying ‘anything that you want’. Indeed, God’s law is supreme.
 
Bezant said:
Good point.

As I often used to traveled along the tube and bus routes of the 7 July bombings, I cannot dismiss the dangers of Islamic radicalism, however, I think most fears about Islam “encroaching” on Europe are mostly hysteria-tricks.

The greater danger in Europe I feel is anti-religious sentiment, atheism and religious indifference.
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This, and the comment about knowing by the fruits, brought to mind again how I feel about the anti-muslim feelings that follow a tiny proportion’s evil acts.

When I was in high school, I went to the local catholic school. Which (like all high schools in the town) had a uniform.

This was in the 80s.

I got abuse shouted at me because I “killed babies”.

No - the IRA were not me.

I’ve got a lot of sympathy for muslims who have to live with that kind of idiocy these days.
 
Fellow members of the Body of Christ,

Do not be fooled by relativism (all religions have violent parts, they all do bad things) or by the fact that “I have nice muslim friends, Islam must be good”… By Mohammed’s very words, as told to him by Allah, all muslims are superior to ALL other non-muslims, and act accordingly IN MAJORITY muslims countries.

Until Muslim demographically can influence politics to their own ends (sharia- very bad for non-muslims), they are the nicest people on the block.

Judge a people by their fruits… (Islam is a religion of peace, as long as the world submits to Islam)… but also have great pity on the many deceived and trapped women and children in this ideology- they have no rights, little freedom, and so much violence around them. My heart hurts for them.

For anyone who wishes to read more on what sharia (Islamic law) is, I suggest this small book- 47 pages, well researched on original sources of Islamic scholars.

And please do not lecture me on political correctness here. Life is too short for that, and many many lives all over the world are being lost to the violence that this religion DEMANDS according to the Quran and Mohammed’s very words. Yes, “the doctrine of abrogation” exists, but it means the later Medina verses (violent ones) cancel out the earlier Mecca verses (the peaceful ones).

Can you afford not to check this out and see for yourselves? I hope not- see for yourself and please do not take my own word for it. Christ tells us all to call it like it is, and turn from it!!!

(and to the new Muslim commenter: leave your taqiyya at home please. Christians don’t have this “allowance for lying in defense of their religion”… but we do know about this “exception” for you. I pray that you see the love and grace of Christ jumping out of this forum and enveloping you with love that your Allah can never give you)
 
lioness said:
Fellow members of the Body of Christ,

Do not be fooled by relativism (all religions have violent parts, they all do bad things) or by the fact that “I have nice muslim friends, Islam must be good”… By Mohammed’s very words, as told to him by Allah, all muslims are superior to ALL other non-muslims, and act accordingly IN MAJORITY muslims countries.

Until Muslim demographically can influence politics to their own ends (sharia- very bad for non-muslims), they are the nicest people on the block.

Judge a people by their fruits… (Islam is a religion of peace, as long as the world submits to Islam)… but also have great pity on the many deceived and trapped women and children in this ideology- they have no rights, little freedom, and so much violence around them. My heart hurts for them.

For anyone who wishes to read more on what sharia (Islamic law) is, I suggest this small book- 47 pages, well researched on original sources of Islamic scholars.

And please do not lecture me on political correctness here. Life is too short for that, and many many lives all over the world are being lost to the violence that this religion DEMANDS according to the Quran and Mohammed’s very words. Yes, “the doctrine of abrogation” exists, but it means the later Medina verses (violent ones) cancel out the earlier Mecca verses (the peaceful ones).

Can you afford not to check this out and see for yourselves? I hope not- see for yourself and please do not take my own word for it. Christ tells us all to call it like it is, and turn from it!!!

(and to the new Muslim commenter: leave your taqiyya at home please. Christians don’t have this “allowance for lying in defense of their religion”… but we do know about this “exception” for you. I pray that you see the love and grace of Christ jumping out of this forum and enveloping you with love that your Allah can never give you)
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Do you have any proof of what you said from the Quran or Hadith ?
 
noobio said:
Well, I never did any research about Buddhism anyway, so I can’t answer your question.
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But that’s different from not knowing “what it is.” Not knowing what something is, is different from not doing research on something.
 
Well, it’s evil in the sense, that it’s not Christian, but it’s not evil in the sense that it preaches evil.

My Muslim friend’s discipline in fasting inspires me and the amount he prays. He hates terrorism, even more so because it doesn’t represent what he believes Islam is.

God is working through all of us, and the people close to him will naturally become better people no matter what their religion.
 
noobio said:
I know but a FollowingtheWay, asked me if I think Buddhism is evil because I made a statement saying Islam is evil since the Quran rejects the diety of Christ.
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Okay, do you think Hinduism is evil because it rejects the deity of Christ?
 
followingtheway said:
Okay, do you think Hinduism is evil because it rejects the deity of Christ?
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I think this religion is evil because is polythiestic, and does not acknoledge the one true God of the bible. It says in Exodus 20:3 “Worship no God but me”. Also, it says in 1 Kings 12: 28-30 "So the king consulted, and made two golden calves, and he said to them, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem; behold your gods, O Israel, that brought you up from the land of Egypt.” He set one in Bethel, and the other he put in Dan. Now this thing became a sin, for the people went to worship before the one as far as Dan. Sin is evil, in Hinduism people worship images and other Gods, which is sinful, so it is evil. I don’t think Hinduism has anything to say about the deity of Christ.
 
jakasaki said:
This is getting tiresome…

Why do you keep changing the topic…???
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Because I’m trying to set an example. People keep on arguing about if Islam is evil or not but my point is that no one is arguing if Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Confucianism and so on are “evil” religions
 
followingtheway said:
-____-

Because I’m trying to set an example. People keep on arguing about if Islam is evil or not but my point is that no one is arguing if Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Confucianism and so on are “evil” religions
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OK - I get you… but do not de-rail the thread… it’s about islam for the love of God!!!

Start new threads to discuss these other issues…

Remember… one man’s truth is another man’s lie…

I have NO love for islam - none whatsoever…

I would not like for the mod’s to shut this thread on lock down because we are discussing other issues than islam.
 
followingtheway said:
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Because I’m trying to set an example. People keep on arguing about if Islam is evil or not but my point is that no one is arguing if Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Confucianism and so on are “evil” religions
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But the Quran explicitly denies that Christ is God, it says in the Quran,

Qur’an 5:72 They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary
 
Islam is a cult not a religion. Because any religion who order his followers to kill others in the name of Allah can’t be from the same god that we know Muslim God allow his followers to steal,rape,kill,and who ever don’t accept islam will put to death in the name of Allah. The Quran was busy with Muhammad personal live of Sex,Kill,and rob the Jews,and Christians in and around Macca.
 
Arthur_Bahnam said:
Islam is a cult not a religion.(1) Because any religion who order his followers to kill others in the name of Allah can’t be from the same God that we know. (2) The Muslim God allows his followers to steal,rape, kill and whoever doesn’t accept islam will be put to death in the name of Allah.(3) The Quran was busy with Muhammad personal live of Sex,Kill,and rob the Jews,and Christians in and around Macca.
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Now I’ve punctuated this, I’lll answer it.

(1) There are many people who argue exactly the same of the Bible. You’re using a little trick called special pleading here- ‘the Qur’an is full of the same killing as the Bible, but I can make an exception for the Bible because I believe in it’.

There’s better arguments against the Qur’an than this one. Similarly, the Bible can be defended easily in this matter by the theological background in which it occurs and by other arguments also.

(2) This little rant is proof you’ve never even bothered to actually open a Qur’an, yet alone actually read it. Surah 2 states ‘there is no compulsion in religion’. Surah Al-Kafiruun (The Unbelievers) actually states as a message ‘to you your religion and I shall practice mine’. Similarly, in many Muslim countries there exist significant Christian populations, along with Jewish, Zoroastrian, Buhddist and other religious populations.

Don’t let the actions of fundamentalists confuse you. Similarly, there are many interpretations of the Qur’an, some strict and others more liberal. Forced conversions to Islam are Islamically unacceptable and are usually the product of the culture in which they occur, not because of the religion they practice.

(3) Sources please.

I must stress in this post that I am merely sick of Islamophobia. I am in no way saying that there is any truth in Islam as a religion. However I respect the views of those who choose of their free will to follow Islam.
 
jakasaki said:
This is getting tiresome…

Why do you keep changing the topic…???

The thread is ISLAM

:mad:
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But people make untenable generalizations which need to be challenged.

If someone said: “Islam is evil because it originated in the Middle East, and only European religions are good,” it would be appropriate to point out that Christianity is a Middle Eastern and not a European religion in origin (No one has said anything so silly, of course!)

It’s easy to bash Islam if you aren’t held accountable for thinking through the implications of what you are saying.

Edwin
 
noobio said:
In the book of Joshua, chapter 2 verse 4-6 Rahab does lie, but it was to protect the Israelite men from being captured. So Rehab lied so, the two spies would not get killed.

In Judges 4:18 Jael does deceive Sisera. But, Sisera was an enemy, who escaped war (4:17). The Lord, told the Israelites that they were going to have victory over him (4:7). The prophet Deborah said that credit will go to a women, because she will kill Sisera (4:9), which did happen (4:21). So we can see the Lord, was giving victory to the people and that why Jael lied, so Sisera, would be killed and later on, they would defeat Jabin the king. So, there was a war going on, killing is required.

When Elisha lied by telling the Syrians they where going the right way, it was to prevent them attacking. Elisha would usually tell the Israelites to be on there guard. (2 Kings 6:9-12). Also, the deceiving that Elisha caused the Syrians to stop attacking (2 Kings 6:23)
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First of all, these responses are irrelevant unless you are suggesting that the Islamic understanding of taqiyya doesn’t require similarly good reasons. As a matter of fact, you haven’t explained what you think the Islamic understanding of taqiyya is (in terms of how far it’s permissible to go and what circumstances might or might not justify it), nor have you given any sources support your claims about Islam.

Of course all of these examples of lying had “good” reasons, in the sense that they helped the Israelites defeat their enemies. You see that as morally justifying because you identify with the Israelites and consider their cause good. You don’t like the idea of Muslims doing the same because you consider their cause bad.

So your argument seems to be this:
  1. Muslims are bad because they lie
  2. When the Israelites lied it was not bad, because the Israelites’ cause was good
Can’t you see how circular this is? You assume “Israelites good, Muslims bad,” and then justify Israelite lying and condemn Muslim lying on that basis. But you started out by making the argument that Islam is bad *because *it condones lying. This doesn’t hold up.

Edwin
 
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