Islam

[Mike_D30]

Ibrahim:

Considerding i proved your argument wrong and all you can say is that jesus is the son of god, it just proves my argument that you dont know what you are talking about, lol

You proved nothing wrong, and whether you believe Jesus to be the Son of God or not, Muhammed 's teachings are clear contradictions of Jesus. Jesus NEVER contradicted Moses or any other prophet, so your point is well…pointless. Muhammed was a warlord, as simple as that. Look at how many wars he was involved in in his lifetime. Look at what the fruits of Islam produce today?

Outrage over a cartoon, but zero outrage over beheading’s, suicide bombings, car bombings, murdering women in cold blood, kidnapping, subjugating women. The list goes on and on. You shall know them by thier fruits. And the fruits of Islam are clear.

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Be Blessed,
I agree with Cyber Knight’s first post here… I’ve smelled this too…

As I said in another post very much like this one. I believe the major troubling difference between Islam’s violence and other faith’s violence (past or present) is that you will find the large majority of responsible leaders in the non-Islamic faiths recognize and renounce their rogue groups, their action and violence as a whole.
With Islamic Leaders there is largely a palpable and disturbing silence on these matters. You would think (given the Islamic population) the statements of renouncement would be deafening. If Islam is a religion of peace, and I am certainly open to this, can you show me where the majority of Islamic leaders are renouncing these contradictory acts? I’m not speaking of the cartoons here, that is a shame-Intel-Op being put together by Iranian and Syrian leadership…
Another comment I would like to make is that I have been to 83 countries in my 35 years and whole heartedly agree that people ‘as a whole’ are good.
I also don’t think you’ll find a group of citizens that love the US more than the Iranian’s. Especially the 70% of males aged 25-35 (which is way bombing Iran would be a huge mistake). But I digress…
I see random Muslim’s saying that Islam is a faith of peace, but do not see that practiced or played out.

Lastly, Jesus fulfilled many OT prophecies and taught peace and faith. He is the Son of Man and truly is 'I AM" Praise to Him.

Peace,
CS

 

[Ibrahim]

considering many, many jewish and christian prophets committed attorocities were were said in scripture to be orders from god, christians cant claim anything against muslims… You see christians claim they follow jesus and all of the prophets. Its just that most christians only follow jesus which goes against christian teaching in general… its to bad that you cant even see it… And like i said study history a bit more my christian friends… You would come to see that this part of violence in Islam has only been happening recently… While all of christian history for the most part is just a blood bath of all unbelievers… I just find it so funny that all of youll preach the gospel and jesus yet you yourselves do everything that jesus said not to do… you have ignorance of all non christians, and you dont even really know anything about your religion in the first place…

 

[Mike_D30]

Ibrahim:

considering many, many jewish and christian prophets committed attorocities were were said in scripture to be orders from god, christians cant claim anything against muslims… You see christians claim they follow jesus and all of the prophets. Its just that most christians only follow jesus which goes against christian teaching in general… its to bad that you cant even see it… And like i said study history a bit more my christian friends… You would come to see that this part of violence in Islam has only been happening recently… While all of christian history for the most part is just a blood bath of all unbelievers… I just find it so funny that all of youll preach the gospel and jesus yet you yourselves do everything that jesus said not to do… you have ignorance of all non christians, and you dont even really know anything about your religion in the first place…

LOL painting with the broad brush. No it’s just that you’re dismissing what everyone is writing just to fit your argument. It’s a transparent desperate, and yes dishonest way to practice apologietics. I now know to steer clear of your non-sense. To me you seem to be just someone with a grudge.

Christian bloodbath. You mean beating back the Muslim invaders I guess.

You don’t seem to understand that before Jesus the prophets were under a different law. Jesus teachings freed us from the Old Testament law. he is the New Covenant. Mohamed came AFTER Jesus and preached murder and war. You will just disregard that anyway, I dont know why I bother.

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Be Blessed,

Ibrahim:

considering many, many Jewish and Christian prophets committed atrocities were said in scripture to be orders from God, Christians cant claim anything against Muslims… You see Christians claim they follow Jesus and all of the prophets. Its just that most Christians only follow Jesus which goes against Christian teaching in general… its to bad that you cant even see it… And like i said study history a bit more my Christian friends… You would come to see that this part of violence in Islam has only been happening recently… While all of Christian history for the most part is just a blood bath of all unbelievers… I just find it so funny that all of youll preach the gospel and Jesus yet you yourselves do everything that Jesus said not to do… you have ignorance of all non Christians, and you dont even really know anything about your religion in the first place…

Agreed. Christian/Catholics certainly reined down their own brand of violence in the past… I am not familar with Jesus having comitting any. He is our saviour (yourself included) But as I said before (and you failed to respond to):

christssoldier:

the large majority of responsible leaders in the non-Islamic faiths recognize and renounce their rogue groups, their action and violence as a whole.
With Islamic Leaders there is largely a palpable and disturbing silence on these matters…

Ibrahim:

You see Christians claim they follow Jesus and all of the prophets.

Much I could say to this, but you would ignore it. So, I will simply point out that we do not acknowledge your profit, so please explain your point again.

Actually, please just explain your point.
Are you saying that because of what Christians did in the past, which we all (including you) agree was wrong - that somehow it is right for Muslims to do it today? Please explain…

Mike_D30:

LOL

I see no point to this sort of speech on this site.
In the same, I have no idea why this site allows consiment in serious discussion - it brings nothing to the argument and is insightful.

Peace,
CS

 

[Mike_D30]

ChristsSoldier:

I see no point to this sort of speech on this site.
In the same, I have no idea why this site allows consiment in serious discussion - it brings nothing to the argument and is insightful.

Peace,
CS

When someone patronizes me with an ill placed LOL (as Ibrahim did), I tend to give it back, it’s not nearly as big a deal as you’re making it…

 

[ChristsSoldier]

Mike_D30:

When someone patronizes me with an ill placed LOL (as Ibrahim did), I tend to give it back, it’s not nearly as big a deal as you’re making it…

I did not intend to single you out, rather the use of that sort of thing in serious discussion here in general. I’ve noticed it in many serious posts. I agree it patronizing - that was my point, I meant to quote the original use in this thread (Ibrahim’s).
My mistake, but my point stands. Apollogies.
Peace,
CS

 

[Mike_D30]

ChristsSoldier:

I did not intend to single you out, rather the use of that sort of thing in serious discussion here in general. I’ve noticed it in many serious posts. I agree it patronizing - that was my point, I meant to quote the original use in this thread (Ibrahim’s).
My mistake, but my point stands. Apollogies.
Peace,
CS

No worries, it is patronizing and I dislike it a lot too, and it typically leads to deterioration in the discussion. I felt like giving it back to Ibrahim which was unecessary, it was probably wrong and I should’ve been bigger than that…

Agreed no more LOL…

Peace

 

[srp643]

Mike_D30:

No worries, it is patronizing and I dislike it a lot too, and it typically leads to deterioration in the discussion. I felt like giving it back to Ibrahim which was unecessary, it was probably wrong and I should’ve been bigger than that…

Agreed no more LOL…

Peace

Nice comeback Mike. It is because of our Lord Jesus Christ’s words and actions that we have the best example of rising above. Good stuff. Dominus tecum!

 

[inJESUS]

if it is ok that prophets or even people should kill, Jesus wouldnt have given us a different teaching. Jesus did not allow any of his disciples to kill for him…Moses was not a sinless person…so after Jesus came with this New covenant, with the true concept of who God is and what he wants, why did mohammad contradict him yet claiming he believes in Jesus? if mohammad really followed Jesus, he wouldnt have killed or had too many wives and too many women slaves…mohammad has nothing to do with Jesus…he is an anti-Jesus. If he wants to follow Moses, let it be, but do not have the guts to say he followed Jesus…we believe in Jesus…we respect Moses as a prophet but he is not sinless and his law was reinterpreted with Jesus…so mohammad should not have had the audacity to talk about Jesus coz he is his ANTI.

 

[inJESUS]

considering many, many jewish and christian prophets committed attorocities were were said in scripture to be orders from god, christians cant claim anything against muslims…

You are deadly mistaken…no Christian prophet commited atrocities…these were in the OLD COVENANT if you understand what OLD means. If the OLD were fine, Jesus wouldnt have reinterpreted it. We follow the NEW…so you have NO right to point fingers at us coz killing is forbidden, clear and simple. If it is allowed for you, it is because mohammad is an anti-christ.

You see christians claim they follow jesus and all of the prophets.

we FOLLOW Jesus and respect the other prophets…we follow jESUS’ INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW.

And like i said study history a bit more my christian friends… You would come to see that this part of violence in Islam has only been happening recently…

You must be kidding…would you like a list of the wars started by mohammad, continuing with his followers till now?

While all of christian history for the most part is just a blood bath of all unbelievers… I just find it so funny that all of youll preach the gospel and jesus yet you yourselves do everything that jesus said not to do…

please specify…not anyone who says he is christian is indeed one…and you are correct…all the atrocities done were WRONG…people are sinfull and we must pray for forgiveness in the name of all those who claimed to be Christians but did not apply it in their lives.

you have ignorance of all non christians, and you dont even really know anything about your religion in the first place…

we do, do you?do you know Jesus’ teachings from the quran? absolutly no, coz mohammad did not have the guts to state Jesus’ teachings , which would have made him look like satan in comparison.

 

[inJESUS]

And the point is Jesus came after Moses had given his message of love for the world from God… So does that mean that Jesus is a false prophet since he came after moses and many other prophets who professed gods love for the world??? LOL

Jesus reinterpreted the law in case you did not notice- if Jesus hadnt given different teachings, they wouldnt have killed him.

• You need to really in depth study Islamic History my friend… You would know that he fought battles with the Pagan Tribes of Arabia who attacked him and the muslims…

really? and what about killing those who mocked him? is mocking to be punished by death? there are plenty of hadith that show mohammad killed in offensive way, not defensive…nice try though.

We Christians are taught nothing coz we don’t care a bit about a false prophet and his heretic teachings…the ones who taught the interested ones are your beloved hadith writers.

 

[inJESUS]

But if you did that then you are rejecting jesus’ message that he has come to fulfil the words of the prophets before him.

the words, the prophecies,not the acts…

But the prophets followed by christianity and Islam are all responsible for horendous things…

we follow Jesus’ interpretation of the law. If killing is ok, Jesus wouldnt have banned it…

All of which according to scripture was authorized and supported by God. Therefor neither of your religions are peaceful then…

excuse me? search for Jesus’ teachings that are NOT peaceful, then come back here please.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

inJESUS:

If he wants to follow Moses, let it be, but do not have the guts to say he followed Jesus…

Muhammad (PBUH) followed no one and he did not say he came to follow someone.

I turn to those who pretend to love and follow the teachings of Jesus and ask:
-Why is fornication and adultery paramount in Christian society? Where the teachings of Jesus not strong enough?
-Why is usury the standard in dealing with money? Did Jesus allow usury?
-Why is alcohol and wine the preferred beverage to Christians, killing many and undermining the health of the Christian society? Did Jesus allow drinking the killer wine?
-Why are most of the Christians elderly put into care houses? Do they not have children to take care of them as they took care of them when they were children? Would Jesus be happy with that.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph_Alison:

Muhammad (PBUH) followed no one and he did not say he came to follow someone.

I turn to those who pretend to love and follow the teachings of Jesus and ask:
-Why is fornication and adultery paramount in Christian society? Where the teachings of Jesus not strong enough?
-Why is usury the standard in dealing with money? Did Jesus allow usury?
-Why is alcohol and wine the preferred beverage to Christians, killing many and undermining the health of the Christian society? Did Jesus allow drinking the killer wine?
-Why are most of the Christians elderly put into care houses? Do they not have children to take care of them as they took care of them when they were children? Would Jesus be happy with that.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Dear Joseph, this is the second time you attack sinful people and not concepts

 

[inJESUS]

Muhammad (PBUH) followed no one and he did not say he came to follow someone.

you prefer the word “confirm” instead of “follow”?

what did mohammad confirm about Jesus’ teachings? what are Jesus’ teachings?

 

[Mike_D30]

Joseph_Alison:

Muhammad (PBUH) followed no one and he did not say he came to follow someone.

I turn to those who pretend to love and follow the teachings of Jesus and ask:
-Why is fornication and adultery paramount in Christian society? Where the teachings of Jesus not strong enough?
-Why is usury the standard in dealing with money? Did Jesus allow usury?
-Why is alcohol and wine the preferred beverage to Christians, killing many and undermining the health of the Christian society? Did Jesus allow drinking the killer wine?
-Why are most of the Christians elderly put into care houses? Do they not have children to take care of them as they took care of them when they were children? Would Jesus be happy with that.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Joseph I would assume it has everything to do with most Christians live in a society where they have free will to sin. THere’s a seperation of Church and state. So the things you listed are not crimes. In Islamic countries they are crimes, some punishable by death. Where as Mulim’s live in extremely overbearing societies, will very little freedoms. There’s less ability to sin. You give Muslim society the freedom’s American’s and European’s have, and they will sin just plenty. (trust me if you’ve ever been to Vegas when the rich Sheik’s come in, they sin plenty).

 

[Muslima]

Dear Catholic freinds,
Peace be upon you
I beleive that the problem between you and us here is mainly a problem of misunderstanding. You are judging moslems wrongly because of the bad image that many moslems are responsible for today. Let us agree first that todays world has forsaken spirituality. Nowadays, many moslems are just moslims only by name but they are far away from Islam, but this does not mean that this is the mistake of Islam, just as well as there are many catholics are far away from their religion. We see many christians in the western soceity who are not truly beleivers but we do not say that they are astray because they are christians, we judge the persons not the religion itself, because Islam taught us that every person is responsible of his deeds.

Unfortunately, the big political struggle in the last 30 years at least in the world is an arab-israili struggle, USA is taking the side of israel in these struglles for purely political reasons and because the US has the higher sounds in media in these last thirty years, and because also USA is much developed in communication world than most of the arab countries, they succeeded to show the whole world a very bad image of moslims and to convince them that moslems are all terrorists.

But our misunderstanding here should be viewed in another way, you must know us first in a true way in order to judge us rightfully. The commandments of Islam asks us to know the customs, culture and knowledge of other people.
God Almighty said in Quran:
49:13: " Mankind, We have created you from a male and a female and divided you into nations and tribes that you might get to know one another."

I ask you here to give a chance to moslems to say what they really are , and then judge because you here about moslims from non moslims, and western media only highlights the astrayed moslems not the good ones.

 

[cocot]

Muslima, you are right about some moslems being away from islam either by ignorance or choosing to ignore surra and hadith.
These are called MODERATE moslems. As I am sure you know any conservative religious moslem believes the koran, surra and hadith about infidels the dhimma the polytheist, jizya, chewing kat, temporary marriage, female circumcsion, beating their wives, the prophets marriage to a 9 year old, jinns, the sun setting into a mud pit, 90 foot Adam, the kabaa turning black from a menstruating womans touch, satanic verses, the kookie scientific proofs, the wacky math that is used to figure inheritance , jews being desendants of apes and pigs, abrogation of verses, the strategies of tarqyia and kitman, predestination, all the books of the bible being corrupted and on and on and on and on…

 

[Muslima]

Dear freinds,
Peace be upon you,

I ask you here just to try not to listen to sound of prejudice and to give your self a chance to know what Islam is, give true Moslems a chance to express, as you are only listening to false information about Islam raised by western media, this media only focuses or shows bad Moslems. Many western writers and thinkers when they read about Islam from its true resources they respected it, see for example this quote :

(The Russian writer; Tolstoy, whose literature and writings are considered to be on the best international literature: 'It suffice Mohammed that he salvaged a humiliated bloody nation from the grip of Satanic customs and put them on the road of development and progress. The Shariah laws of Mohammed agrees with the common sense and wisdom.

Islam respects christianity and christians, we can not satirize or redicule any of the prophets as a Moslem is not considered a truley Moslem unless he beleives in all the prophets and loves them.
God Almighty said in Holy Quran:
2: 136. Say : “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah .”

Peace be upon you