Islam

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thedavidwilson said:
Hey,I never knew Muhammed was in the bible. I thought he lived 600 yrs later.😉
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You really do need to download and read the book.

Below is just a small excerpt of it:

Two improper translations relating to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) are found in the Bible. The first is in Haggai 2:7, where Prophet Muhammad’s (pbuh) name is mentioned. Mahmad Hamdduit is found in Hebrew, but no English word can be properly used. Therefore, a close sounding word was used and translated to mean “desire.”

During the sixteenth century, when the King James Version of the Bible was written, the translators were fully aware of the name Mahmad. But they were not ready to accept that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was this Great Messenger of God and so they decided to change his name to the word “Desire”. Even in Arabic, they still used the word (Desire) in their translations.
 
hamba2han said:
Two improper translations relating to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) are found in the Bible. The first is in Haggai 2:7, where Prophet Muhammad’s (pbuh) name is mentioned. Mahmad Hamdduit is found in Hebrew, but no English word can be properly used. Therefore, a close sounding word was used and translated to mean “desire.”
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Here is Haggai 2:7

*And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. *

so ‘desire’ should be ‘Mohammad’, you say? lets see then…

And I will shake all nations, and the MOHAMMAD of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

thats so dumb. muslim apologists are so lacking in common sense! :rolleyes:
 
AgnosTheist said:
Here is Haggai 2:7

*And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. *

so ‘desire’ should be ‘Mohammad’, you say? lets see then…

And I will shake all nations, and the MOHAMMAD of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

thats so dumb. muslim apologists are so lacking in common sense! :rolleyes:
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The Covenant between God and Abraham, which Moses came to renew and Jesus (pbut) came to fulfil and announce the coming of the desired prophet, the “Himdah” or “Ahmed” of all nations - Mahmad, Mahamod, and Machammad in Hebrew and MuHaMmad, i.e. Muhammad, in Arabic; the one imbued with the Spirit of Truth; the Comforter - The Periqlyte, or Paraclete. The Old Testament mentions him in the following terms.
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**"And the Ahmed of all nations will come"** (Haggai, ii.7).

**"And I will shake all nations, and the Himada / Ahmed/ Paraclete of all the nations will come; and I will fill this house with with glory, says the Lord of hosts. Mine is the silver, Mine is the gold, says the Lord of hosts, the glory of My last house shall be greater than of the first one says the Lord of hosts; and in this place I will give Shalom, says the Lord of hosts"** (Haggai, ii.7 - 9).
The Holy Prophet King Solomon names this bringer of Peace / Shalom, as “Muhammadim” the suffix “im” is used to express absolute respect as with the “im” added to “Eloah” to make “Elohim” (Allahumma) which denotes absolute respect for God.

Muhammadim is usually translated, intentionally or otherwise, as “altogether lovely”, in itself not an unfitting tribute to the one who would come and renew Abraham’s religion of Peace i.e., Salaam. The Hebrew, transliteration in Roman script from the Song of Solomon is as follows:
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**"Hikko Mamittaqim Vikullo MAHAMMADIM

Zeh Dudi Vezew Raai Benute Yarushalam"**
Meaning:
**"His mouth is most sweet; yet, he is Mohamad, altogether lovely. This is my beloved and this is My friend, o daughter of Jerusalem!"**
 
I asked for a historically factual book on Islam. Not one written by believers of Islam. Just like there are several translations to the Bible. I only read the Catholic translation or the New Jerusalem which is approved by the Holy See. It is hard to believe that no one has a resoure for such an important issue.

For example, there is an outstanding book called “Lepanto” by C.K. Chesterton that explains very factually a very significant moment in history, and how one battle through devine intervention changed the face of Europe. Well atleast for a shortperiod of time… Anything else out there as opposed to someone trying to convert me to Muslim faith.
 
hamba2han said:
Well OK then, can you kindly explain what exactly does this “desire of all nations” mean?:confused:
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What do nations desire?. All nations desire wealth. So wealth is the ‘desire’ of all nations. Now lets see if that interpretation makes sense with the passage:

2:6
For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
2:7
And I will shake all nations, and **the desire of all nations **shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
2:8
The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

using substitution:

2:6
*For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
2:7
And I will shake all nations, and **WEALTH ***shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
2:8
The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

Verse 8 supports the idea that Israel will become wealthy.

Silver & Gold = Wealth = Desire of all nations

Agree? 🙂
 
Ed_Dietz said:
I asked for a historically factual book on Islam. Not one written by believers of Islam. Just like there are several translations to the Bible. I only read the Catholic translation or the New Jerusalem which is approved by the Holy See. It is hard to believe that no one has a resoure for such an important issue.

For example, there is an outstanding book called “Lepanto” by C.K. Chesterton that explains very factually a very significant moment in history, and how one battle through devine intervention changed the face of Europe. Well atleast for a shortperiod of time… Anything else out there as opposed to someone trying to convert me to Muslim faith.
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**Here you go, amazon.com/Top-Intro-Books-Islam-Muslims/lm/EM6338SSZZ5N

And Karen Armstrong, John L. Esposito, Leila Ahmed, Leila Ahmed, Ahmed Dedaat, Murad Hoffman, Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips, Dr. Jamal A. Badawi, Stanwood Cobb, Jerald F. Dirks, Dr. M Hamidullah, Dr. Muhammad Abdo Yamani, Rose Wilder Lane, Ahmad Thomson and Muhammad Ata’ur-Rahim more books can be ordered from soundvision.com/shop/pview.asp?Item=4321-022

Send me a note if you find this list not to your satisfaction, moreover, the best is to read the Quran’s meaning in English translation. as you there are thousands and thousands if not millions of books on Islam and history of islam so it all depends what you like to know more about.

good luck and great reading,**
 
dparker said:
This is an excellent and detailed history:

The Sword of the Prophet

Not sure there are completely objective writers anywhere…but this author does a good job of research and footnoting.
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Not meaning to be confrontational here… but don’t you think you could do better as far as objectivity is concerned than a book written by a Serb (of all people) who says the Srebrenica massacre and Serbian rape camps are nothing but myths? This guy is clearly about as biased as you get.
 
AbeOman said:
Here you go, amazon.com/Top-Intro-Books-Islam-Muslims/lm/EM6338SSZZ5N

And Karen Armstrong, John L. Esposito, Leila Ahmed, Leila Ahmed, Ahmed Dedaat, Murad Hoffman, Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips, Dr. Jamal A. Badawi, Stanwood Cobb, Jerald F. Dirks, Dr. M Hamidullah, Dr. Muhammad Abdo Yamani, Rose Wilder Lane, Ahmad Thomson and Muhammad Ata’ur-Rahim more books can be ordered from soundvision.com/shop/pview.asp?Item=4321-022

Send me a note if you find this list not to your satisfaction, moreover, the best is to read the Quran’s meaning in English translation. as you there are thousands and thousands if not millions of books on Islam and history of islam so it all depends what you like to know more about.

good luck and great reading,
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Ha! The first warning sign is Karen Armstrong in the list. She is a failed nun who believes islam is a totally peaceful religion in its teachings and practice. Try something by people who have converted from islam (if they have not been murdered by other muslims for apostasy, as mandated by islamic law). They will have seen islam from the inside and outside. Remember to check out Robert Spencer and Blogging the Quran. He mainly quotes islamic scholars from toady and in the past and their interpretations of islam and its history.
 
thedavidwilson said:
Ha! The first warning sign is Karen Armstrong in the list. She is a failed nun who believes islam is a totally peaceful religion in its teachings and practice. Try something by people who have converted from islam (if they have not been murdered by other muslims for apostasy, as mandated by islamic law). They will have seen islam from the inside and outside. Remember to check out Robert Spencer and Blogging the Quran. He mainly quotes islamic scholars from toady and in the past and their interpretations of islam and its history.
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**Why the warning…? who is Robert Spencer and what does he represent, better yet as a good Catholic go and ask him what he thinks of Jesus (PBUH) or blessed virgin marry (PBUH)…?

Dr. Armstrong is a scholar in Islam and Islamic history and that is what the post was all about, good for her if she thinks Islam is peaceful and so do I, you have a problem with that and if so what is your proof to the contrary…? and don’t forget this has been discussed in an different thread.

Thanks**
 
AbeOman said:
**Why the warning…? who is Robert Spencer and what does he represent, better yet as a good Catholic go and ask him what he thinks of Jesus (PBUH) or blessed virgin marry (PBUH)…?

Dr. Armstrong is a scholar in Islam and Islamic history and that is what the post was all about, good for her if she thinks Islam is peaceful and so do I, you have a problem with that and if so what is your proof to the contrary…? and don’t forget this has been discussed in an different thread.

Thanks**
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The only peace in islam (aka submission) is the peace that occurs when other peoples and religions are forcibly put into submission. This is evident by the practice of dhimmitude, murder of converts from islam and the exhortation in the quran and hadith for muslims to wage war on dar al haram (unbelievers) until dar al islam reigns supreme. God bless.
 
AbeOman said:
**Why the warning…? who is Robert Spencer and what does he represent, better yet as a good Catholic go and ask him what he thinks of Jesus (PBUH) or blessed virgin marry (PBUH)…?

Dr. Armstrong is a scholar in Islam and Islamic history and that is what the post was all about, good for her if she thinks Islam is peaceful and so do I, you have a problem with that and if so what is your proof to the contrary…? and don’t forget this has been discussed in an different thread.

Thanks**
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From what I hear Robert Spencer is a devout Catholic. What have you heard?
 
Being a good Catholic does not necessarily mean he is historically correct in his writings.

Forming your conscious is the single most important thing we can do as Catholic’s. Many people say thet Islam is a peaceful religion. Would the Crusaders say the same? Would the Muslims say that the Crusaders were peaceful – I dare say not. What I’m looking for is a book that is historically correct as to the how, when, where, and what was to follow regarding the Muslim faith without any author adding their own theology into a historical piece of work.
 
Ed_Dietz said:
Being a good Catholic does not necessarily mean he is historically correct in his writings.

Forming your conscious is the single most important thing we can do as Catholic’s. Many people say thet Islam is a peaceful religion. Would the Crusaders say the same? Would the Muslims say that the Crusaders were peaceful – I dare say not. What I’m looking for is a book that is historically correct as to the how, when, where, and what was to follow regarding the Muslim faith without any author adding their own theology into a historical piece of work.
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Being Catholic does not make him inaccurate either. He actually quotes from islamic sources. So his inaccuracies are theirs. Try reading him instead of making blanket statements.

The Crusades was a time of war, to defend Christian lands from Muslim agression. Did you know that the Crusades were not a topic in muslim culture until the 20th century? Most muslims of the early 20th century did not even know of the Crusades. The crusades were introduced by the Muslim Brotherhood and other groups to create division between muslims and christians and to show a justification for taking up jihad to re-establish the caliphate. This is from A Concise History of the Crusades and sources are documented. Muslim prior to the 20th century did not harbor any bitterness regarding the crusades, if they even knew about them.

I will tell you that any history written by a muslim will be biased. This is due to the fact that writting anything bad about islam or muhammed (even if it is true) will get you murdered in most muslims countries (and some western countires). This comes from the sharia law mandate to kill apostates. This is why many muslim converts who speak out against islam require armed guards.
 
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