F
Franze
Guest
Why does Allah allow this?
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K
Karin
Guest
For the same reason God allowed the Hurricans to destroy N.O. or any other natural disaster that has occured.
F
Franze
Guest
Why then? Why God allows this?
E
Edris
Guest
It’s a trial from Allah (swt) to test the patience of the believers, and a reminder to the unbelievers.
In Islam any person who dies from a stomach illness, a plague, in a fire, drowning, or burried under rubble (due to an earthquake, volcano, etc.) is considered a martyr.
Code:
The Prophet pbuh also said what means that death is a relief and joy for every believer and a tragedy for the unbelievers.“And if Allâh were to seize mankind for their wrong-doing, He would not leave on it (the earth) a single moving (living) creature, but He postpones them for an appointed term and when their term comes, neither can they delay nor can they advance it an hour (or a moment).” (Qur’an 16:61)
Peace
J
jaydog77
Guest
Well it depends. When natural disasters occur in the US, if you poll the Muslim world it’s because we’re relatives of pigs and monkeys and it is punishment for being Infidels (allah made it happen). When it happens in muslim countries, it depends. The tsunami is the fault of a few decadent tourists being allowed in that region, so allah’s punishment was killing 200,000 muslims. I still don’t know why natural disasters happen in the Islamic Republic of Iran since infidels neither vacation there nor want anything to do with the place.
In short, it depends how Al Jazeera and the average Imam want to spin it. However, its likely our fault. But I do hope the Muslim world’s response to the disaster is better than their response to the tsunami since we embarassed them so.
R
r.gonzales
Guest
very simple really…
Allah says:
وَمَآ أَصَابَكُم مِّن مُّصِيبَةٍ فَبِمَا كَسَبَتْ أَيْدِيكُم
“and whatever strikes you of calamity, then it is because of what your hands have earned.”
prophet muhammad also said, “when you agree on terms of a sale by usury, you take the tails of the cows, become pleased with cultivation and abandon struggling for Allah’s sake, Allah will inflict upon you humiliation that He will not remove until you return to your religion.”
as has been mentioned time and time again, a large majority of the muslims today are ignorant of their religion and have strayed from its correct teachings.
J
jcaz
Guest
In the Name of Allaah, the Most Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
Allaah, the Sublime, has reasons for doing things. For some of these things, He has shown us the wisdom behind His reasons, and for other things, we may not know the wisdom and must be patient with the decree of our Lord.
With regard to natural disasters, or frankly, anything bad/evil that happens to us, there are two basic reasons that Allaah has revealed to us in the Quraan:
(1) It may be a test.
Allaah says in the Quraan:
Allaah says in the Quraan:
Sincerely,
jcaz
Allaah, the Sublime, has reasons for doing things. For some of these things, He has shown us the wisdom behind His reasons, and for other things, we may not know the wisdom and must be patient with the decree of our Lord.
With regard to natural disasters, or frankly, anything bad/evil that happens to us, there are two basic reasons that Allaah has revealed to us in the Quraan:
(1) It may be a test.
Allaah says in the Quraan:
(2) It may be a punishment based on our own sins
Allaah says in the Quraan:
Hope this helps to clarify this issue for you.
Sincerely,
jcaz
J
jcaz
Guest
There is a mistake on the second verse I gave under part 2.
Apparently, while quickly cutting and pasting, I selected the same verse twice.
So the translation of the second verse should be as follows:
“Whatever befalls you from good (whatever good happens to you) is from Allaah, and whatever befalls you from the evils/bad (whatever bad things happen to you) is from your own self.”
Sorry about that.
jcaz
Apparently, while quickly cutting and pasting, I selected the same verse twice.
So the translation of the second verse should be as follows:
“Whatever befalls you from good (whatever good happens to you) is from Allaah, and whatever befalls you from the evils/bad (whatever bad things happen to you) is from your own self.”
Sorry about that.
jcaz
K
Karin
Guest
Oh I like that! Make so much sense!!!
C
cestusdei
Guest
Muslims made statements about Katrina being an Islamic jihadist for destroying New Orleans. Shouldn’t they then call the earthquake and American soldier? I doubt it and we wouldn’t even think it. We try to avoid indiscriminate killing. It shows the real difference in mentality between the two religions.
J
jcaz
Guest
cestusdei,
One could easily get upset after reading your post and your opinionated view, as you are falling into the same trap as too many other Christians, specifically, attributing the bad actions of members of a relgion to the actual teachings of a religion.
So when many Americans, who were Christians, after 9/11, made signs saying “kill all arabs”, if I used your same mentality, I would respond saying, man, look at Christianity, very sad how a religion can allow the “killing of all arabs.”
Surely that would be comment void of intellect and reasoning.
And surely, you can then understand the problem with your post. You quoted what some “muslims” did and then you tried to attribute their actions to the religion of Islaam. But rather, Islaam is free from their actions.
So if any of us wants to discuss a religion. we need to do just that; we need to study and discuss the actual religion and its respective teachings.
No one can say why specific things happen, as we do not know the unseen. But as shown in the verses above, Allaah has given us some insight as to why these things happen. Maybe it is a trial, a test, and maybe it is a punishment. But only Allaah knows.
Sincerely,
jcaz
One could easily get upset after reading your post and your opinionated view, as you are falling into the same trap as too many other Christians, specifically, attributing the bad actions of members of a relgion to the actual teachings of a religion.
So when many Americans, who were Christians, after 9/11, made signs saying “kill all arabs”, if I used your same mentality, I would respond saying, man, look at Christianity, very sad how a religion can allow the “killing of all arabs.”
Surely that would be comment void of intellect and reasoning.
And surely, you can then understand the problem with your post. You quoted what some “muslims” did and then you tried to attribute their actions to the religion of Islaam. But rather, Islaam is free from their actions.
So if any of us wants to discuss a religion. we need to do just that; we need to study and discuss the actual religion and its respective teachings.
No one can say why specific things happen, as we do not know the unseen. But as shown in the verses above, Allaah has given us some insight as to why these things happen. Maybe it is a trial, a test, and maybe it is a punishment. But only Allaah knows.
Sincerely,
jcaz
S
sainted
Guest
NO, NO and NO! Your interpretations and views regarding natural disasters are all confusing and contradictory. Someone says a reason here and there and then cover it up with a big MAYBE and/or a test, punishment … etc…etc. Yet no one has come up with a confident answer that this is why this or that happens exactly. In other words all reasonings and interpretations are futile and should be addressed as just wild guessing. Other than that its just too much playing around with the mind of God.
With that said let me just verify that I’m just addressing the natural disasters of our time. In other words the time after the fulfilment when our Lord Jesus descended to earth or NT era. Pre-Jesus time or OT is not addressed here.
I happened to read the paper just before last christmas and I still remember it was a Friday before X-mas. (I don’t think our news make headlines in US or the West anyway so I doubt anyone knew of it). Anyway it’d really saddened me that some parts in Indonesia had banned catholics from celebrating christmas of any sort, christmas trees and the likes. Strict control were imposed on churches also for the night X-mas mass, burning churches and possible attacks could result if violated. While I was looking forward to going to mass to celebrate our Lord’s b/day that evening it hurt me deeply how I’m so free in my country to do whatever I like while not so far away some poor souls can’t even light a christmas tree. (I think it’s “Always Cute” who said something like this I came across in one thread)
Anyway I prayed to the Lord for His comfort and mercy to enlightened them with a spirit of grace and happiness, to enjoy their prayers and praises in their own homes. Alas you know what happened the very next day after X-mas. Well everyone knows, the Tsunami strikes.
The memories still linger and its almost a year ago and thought I’d share it here, so to prolong my story a little bit hoping that it won’t bore any one to sleep. It was after my confession on the same Friday that I had the luxury to have an extra chat with our priest. Yes life here is always busy. Well one might ask why I was so late but it was my only chance to have confession during that week and I almost missed out before X-mas mass. Seeping coffee he had made for me he asked me if I had heard of the biggest bank robbery in Ireland. He happens to be a good old Irish priest though. I said know and he sort of mumbled how such things could happen. He went and got a newspaper and gave it to me saying, ‘it’s all in there and some other sad stories too.’
As always regardless of what the circumstances are the next big gathering for celebration is News Years Eve and the same priest who gave me the newspaper with this story pledged for the collection to be donated to the Tsunami in Indonesia. He even made us walk a 15km charity walk to raise money for this cause.
On a side note: A muslim on another thread (I think jcaz) accused me and christians for that matter of probably not wasting any money when it comes to muslim disaster donations. I didn’t waste an inch to say anything about his careless precarious comments, as it would be just idle assuarance to him to make a claim that I donate indiscriminately. Unfortunately that thread no longer appears on my screen for some reason.
Worthy of note here that when I had another chat with my priest at New Years Eve-after-mass candy party, he never mentioned anything about the churches in Indonesia so as to imply anything related. He just went on about such a terrible natural disaster in Indonesia.
Anyway with regards to the Tsunami I’ll leave it up to you guys to do the guess work. I’m not in for it!
In summary I could say natural disasters are just natural disasters as the phrase implies period. If one (and there are many) makes attributes to n/disasters as God given then why should we not just call them supernatural disasters or even God-disasters. For those who atrribute it to the work of the devil then just call it evil disaster but then it means nothing as there is no such thing as good disaster.
It is like someone who keeps smoking with the full knowledge of getting cancer from it. When the cancer strikes he complains God why me why me? Why didn’t you force me to stop it?
We know just too well the consequences of our activities upon the environment and the price we must pay. Is it fair for us to say then “Why God, why God?” or “God did this God did that!”
It is why God gave each one of us mind, soul and spirit in order that we may discern for the best in how to look after ourselves, look after the environment and the world he created for us to dwell in.
With that said let me just verify that I’m just addressing the natural disasters of our time. In other words the time after the fulfilment when our Lord Jesus descended to earth or NT era. Pre-Jesus time or OT is not addressed here.
I happened to read the paper just before last christmas and I still remember it was a Friday before X-mas. (I don’t think our news make headlines in US or the West anyway so I doubt anyone knew of it). Anyway it’d really saddened me that some parts in Indonesia had banned catholics from celebrating christmas of any sort, christmas trees and the likes. Strict control were imposed on churches also for the night X-mas mass, burning churches and possible attacks could result if violated. While I was looking forward to going to mass to celebrate our Lord’s b/day that evening it hurt me deeply how I’m so free in my country to do whatever I like while not so far away some poor souls can’t even light a christmas tree. (I think it’s “Always Cute” who said something like this I came across in one thread)
Anyway I prayed to the Lord for His comfort and mercy to enlightened them with a spirit of grace and happiness, to enjoy their prayers and praises in their own homes. Alas you know what happened the very next day after X-mas. Well everyone knows, the Tsunami strikes.
The memories still linger and its almost a year ago and thought I’d share it here, so to prolong my story a little bit hoping that it won’t bore any one to sleep. It was after my confession on the same Friday that I had the luxury to have an extra chat with our priest. Yes life here is always busy. Well one might ask why I was so late but it was my only chance to have confession during that week and I almost missed out before X-mas mass. Seeping coffee he had made for me he asked me if I had heard of the biggest bank robbery in Ireland. He happens to be a good old Irish priest though. I said know and he sort of mumbled how such things could happen. He went and got a newspaper and gave it to me saying, ‘it’s all in there and some other sad stories too.’
As always regardless of what the circumstances are the next big gathering for celebration is News Years Eve and the same priest who gave me the newspaper with this story pledged for the collection to be donated to the Tsunami in Indonesia. He even made us walk a 15km charity walk to raise money for this cause.
On a side note: A muslim on another thread (I think jcaz) accused me and christians for that matter of probably not wasting any money when it comes to muslim disaster donations. I didn’t waste an inch to say anything about his careless precarious comments, as it would be just idle assuarance to him to make a claim that I donate indiscriminately. Unfortunately that thread no longer appears on my screen for some reason.
Worthy of note here that when I had another chat with my priest at New Years Eve-after-mass candy party, he never mentioned anything about the churches in Indonesia so as to imply anything related. He just went on about such a terrible natural disaster in Indonesia.
Anyway with regards to the Tsunami I’ll leave it up to you guys to do the guess work. I’m not in for it!
In summary I could say natural disasters are just natural disasters as the phrase implies period. If one (and there are many) makes attributes to n/disasters as God given then why should we not just call them supernatural disasters or even God-disasters. For those who atrribute it to the work of the devil then just call it evil disaster but then it means nothing as there is no such thing as good disaster.
It is like someone who keeps smoking with the full knowledge of getting cancer from it. When the cancer strikes he complains God why me why me? Why didn’t you force me to stop it?
We know just too well the consequences of our activities upon the environment and the price we must pay. Is it fair for us to say then “Why God, why God?” or “God did this God did that!”
It is why God gave each one of us mind, soul and spirit in order that we may discern for the best in how to look after ourselves, look after the environment and the world he created for us to dwell in.
C
cestusdei
Guest
jcaz,
If I go to Saudi Arabia and say Mass I will be arrested, tortured, imprisoned, and maybe killed. That’s a fact. And it isn’t the only place where that is true. If only 20% of Muslims use Islam for terrorism then that is 200,000,000 people. You folks have a real problem on your hands. Islam is very easy to interpret in nasty ways. Muhammed was a war leader and could be very violent. Jesus was not. Islam must face it’s deficiencies. When I can say Mass at Our Lady of Arabia in Medina then we can say progress has been made.
If I go to Saudi Arabia and say Mass I will be arrested, tortured, imprisoned, and maybe killed. That’s a fact. And it isn’t the only place where that is true. If only 20% of Muslims use Islam for terrorism then that is 200,000,000 people. You folks have a real problem on your hands. Islam is very easy to interpret in nasty ways. Muhammed was a war leader and could be very violent. Jesus was not. Islam must face it’s deficiencies. When I can say Mass at Our Lady of Arabia in Medina then we can say progress has been made.
M
MrS
Guest
How prophetic is Helaire Belloc?
J
jcaz
Guest
Dear Sainted,
I’m sorry, but perhaps because you typed your reply so fast, I was unable to understand several portions of it. You obviously have certain perceptions of things and how they work based on your Catholic faith, and I will respect your beliefs. I cannot, however, mandate that you respect the beliefs of others.
God controls everything. He allows everything to happen, and he can stop anything from happening. If all of the human race got together and took all of our power and tried to stop a “natural disaster”, we would never be able to do so unless God allowed for us and decreed for us to do so. And if all the human race got together and took all of our power and tried to create a “natural disaster”, we would never be able to do so unless God allowed for us and decreed for us to do so.
Some often respond saying, “God isn’t sitting ‘up there’ spinning hurricanes and tornadoes with his fingers, as if He’s playing a game lilke Sim City.”
To this, I say, perhaps you are right, and what you say makes very good sense. However, it seems amazing audacious to state what God is and is not doing and how He runs and controls His universe. Unless you’ve visited heaven and seen how God runs things, this is a very precarious position indeed.
Many “natural disasters” struck peoples according to the Bible, and these disasters would caused by God to punish people, such as during the time of Lot, of Noah, of Pharoh, and of many others. These disasters were not created and controled by Satan, as you may claim. Rather, God caused them and controlled them for His purpose, and based on His infinite wisdom.
So because we do not know all and because we are limited in our knowledge, we can only say what God has given us the knowledge to say, and from an Islamic point of view, **there are two main reasons why things happen:
(1) As a test.
(2) As a punishment.**
And it is not for you, or me, or anyone else to say which disaster is because of which reason. Only God knows this information.
Sincerely,
jcaz
I’m sorry, but perhaps because you typed your reply so fast, I was unable to understand several portions of it. You obviously have certain perceptions of things and how they work based on your Catholic faith, and I will respect your beliefs. I cannot, however, mandate that you respect the beliefs of others.
Confusing to you perhaps. But they are very clear to me, to all other Muslims, and frankly, to many Christians, and even to my family of Catholics who I have had this discussion with.
God controls everything. He allows everything to happen, and he can stop anything from happening. If all of the human race got together and took all of our power and tried to stop a “natural disaster”, we would never be able to do so unless God allowed for us and decreed for us to do so. And if all the human race got together and took all of our power and tried to create a “natural disaster”, we would never be able to do so unless God allowed for us and decreed for us to do so.
Some often respond saying, “God isn’t sitting ‘up there’ spinning hurricanes and tornadoes with his fingers, as if He’s playing a game lilke Sim City.”
To this, I say, perhaps you are right, and what you say makes very good sense. However, it seems amazing audacious to state what God is and is not doing and how He runs and controls His universe. Unless you’ve visited heaven and seen how God runs things, this is a very precarious position indeed.
Many “natural disasters” struck peoples according to the Bible, and these disasters would caused by God to punish people, such as during the time of Lot, of Noah, of Pharoh, and of many others. These disasters were not created and controled by Satan, as you may claim. Rather, God caused them and controlled them for His purpose, and based on His infinite wisdom.
If someone comes forward and says that “such and such” disaster happened because of “such and such” reason, then this person is saying he has knowledge of the unseen, and this knowledge belongs to none except God. We can not say why specific events happened. Some people may choose to guess at why things happened based on the reasons that they have seen in the past (such as the Biblical examples above), but these guesses are merely what they are: guesses.
So because we do not know all and because we are limited in our knowledge, we can only say what God has given us the knowledge to say, and from an Islamic point of view, **there are two main reasons why things happen:
(1) As a test.
(2) As a punishment.**
And it is not for you, or me, or anyone else to say which disaster is because of which reason. Only God knows this information.
General interpretations based on past examples and based on verses in one’s religious Holy Book are not futile, but rather, are very important. But if you are referring to specific events and guessing at their causes, then we are in complete agreement, that is "futile and should be addressed as just wild guessing."
Sincerely,
jcaz
J
jcaz
Guest
cestusdei,
You have some good points worthy of a discussion, and you have not on posted these points here, but you also posted them on another thread…both threads having very little to do with your points.
I did go ahead and respond to your points on the other thread, although i did not want to, because it was taking the thread off topic.
if this is something you wish to discuss, Why not start a thread on it?
Regards,
jcaz
You have some good points worthy of a discussion, and you have not on posted these points here, but you also posted them on another thread…both threads having very little to do with your points.
I did go ahead and respond to your points on the other thread, although i did not want to, because it was taking the thread off topic.
if this is something you wish to discuss, Why not start a thread on it?
Regards,
jcaz
J
jcaz
Guest
Yes, that thread seems to have been removed for some reason, as I do not see it either.
Secondy, and more importantly, Sainted, I advise myself first and then you secondly to be careful when accusing someone of something when you only “think” it was them that said it.
On the thread in question, YOU precariously assumed that Muslim countries were not sending help to the Pakistanis, whether that help be in the form of money, helicopters, workers, blankets, food, etc. And you were so audacious in your position, that you exclaimed that Muslilms “were turing a blind eye towards their brothers and sisters in Pakistan.” YOU assumed all of this. And verily, it was a tremendously awefull and precarious assumption.
I pointed this out to you and explained that you have no way of knowing what has and has not been donated FROM ANYONE. I further said that you have no idea how much or how little individual Christians gave to Pakistanis, and the ONLY POINT was to make you understand the fault of your logic and the fault of the precarious position you were taking. Just because I am not aware of every single donation made by individual Christians, this does not mean they are not donating. And just because you are not aware of every single relief effort donated and given to the Pakistanis by their Muslim brothers, that does not mean it is not happening.
That was the point. So please do not try to defame anyone, personally, the same way you attempt at defaming Islaam.
Sincerely,
jcaz
R
r.gonzales
Guest
wow, talk about gross exaggeration…
btw, what does any of this have to do with the earthquake that occurred in pakistan?
E
Edris
Guest
How about a Saudi Arabian go and perform muslim prayer in the Vatican? I’m sure he’ll be very welcomed.
M
MrS
Guest
He would be welcomed. He would even be welcomed to attend Mass. And if he could purchase property and build a mosque right next to the Vatican or a bascillica etc (oops…that has already happened), he might be frowned on… but not harmed or killed.
but now we are off topic again…
so …back to the issue at hand
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