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Sam_777
Guest
Because those Islamic countries are implementing the Islamic law 100%, while the secular countries are NOT implementing the freedom law 100%.
That is the difference…
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That is the difference…
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Sam_777
Guest
But my thread is not talking here about men lust!!!, I’m talking about the secular freedom, when a country claims that it rules by the freedom then it must do so.
Let us take the Olympics as an example, when the judges want to put the marks for an athlete, they remove the highest mark and the lowest one to give a FAIR mark, so in my opinion if those secular countries want to ban the burqa then they should also ban public nudity, and I think Muslims would be happy by that…
I’m not listing to him, his law to me is no more than another earthy secular law which I consider to be a good one compared to current secular laws BUT not at all superior the the heavenly one from Jesus.
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Kadaveri
Guest
There is no Islamic law that the state (which didn’t even exist until modern times) imposes an Islamic dress code on its citizens.
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Sam_777
Guest
(Quran 24:31):
*“And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.”
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 282:*
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba:
'Aisha used to say: “When (the Verse): “They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,” was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.” (E)
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Kadaveri
Guest
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Splinker
Guest
I don’t understand that response. Are you saying that France in forbidding the use of Burkas to .26% of the Muslim women in its country is being arbitrary?
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trdchubi
Guest
Sam I think you know already burqas are a by product of an oppressive religious system, the sharia law i.e. taliban regime, while on the other hand public nudity is a result of secularism of one given individual or group of individuals who are exhibitionists by nature.
Well personally IMO I feel threatened by a burqa. Like this one
http://all4women.co.za/files.php?file=/black_burqas_711477717.jpg
I just can’t seem to connect with it. I can’t seem to find the person, the individual in those cladding. To add to that, I just don’t like the paranoia that comes with it… like an overly zealous islamic husband somewhere that says “private property, stay away”,(in my place they always go along with their islamic husbands or bodyguards) or the possibility that I am standing beside a terrorists…(sorry no pan intended, it just feels that way here).
I can still remember one instance in a Chinese restaurant, a women in her black burqa totally covered went in with her husband who is wearing khakis shorts. Now that’s a question of modesty on the part of the man. Is he bringing along a display to show how strict is he in practicing his religion? I just felt sorry for the woman. I was also asking myself what they are doing here anyway. I never knew the restaurant is serving halal now.
I tell you this people who wear this things thinking they are walking, seating unnoticed, (just like in the restaurant) find themselves in everyone’s prying eyes simply because they are totally different from the rest of the crowd. They are no different with a women dressed in a bright red mini skirt.
The difference with the later is she is showing skins and practicing her “secular” freedom of individuality and is identifiable physically, while the former is following a strict dress code imposed by her religion and is literally and figuratively a ghost.
For me as a citizen of a free society,I am more incline to accept what my society tells me as acceptable and deem appropriately modest. The Catholic Church has its own guidelines on dressing properly without having to compromise the norms of a free state.
Are we not all grown up to know which is modest, and which is not?
Code:
Now Is it fair to ban islamic veils in public?http://all4women.co.za/files.php?file=/black_burqas_711477717.jpg
I just can’t seem to connect with it. I can’t seem to find the person, the individual in those cladding. To add to that, I just don’t like the paranoia that comes with it… like an overly zealous islamic husband somewhere that says “private property, stay away”,(in my place they always go along with their islamic husbands or bodyguards) or the possibility that I am standing beside a terrorists…(sorry no pan intended, it just feels that way here).
I can still remember one instance in a Chinese restaurant, a women in her black burqa totally covered went in with her husband who is wearing khakis shorts. Now that’s a question of modesty on the part of the man. Is he bringing along a display to show how strict is he in practicing his religion? I just felt sorry for the woman. I was also asking myself what they are doing here anyway. I never knew the restaurant is serving halal now.
I tell you this people who wear this things thinking they are walking, seating unnoticed, (just like in the restaurant) find themselves in everyone’s prying eyes simply because they are totally different from the rest of the crowd. They are no different with a women dressed in a bright red mini skirt.
The difference with the later is she is showing skins and practicing her “secular” freedom of individuality and is identifiable physically, while the former is following a strict dress code imposed by her religion and is literally and figuratively a ghost.
For me as a citizen of a free society,I am more incline to accept what my society tells me as acceptable and deem appropriately modest. The Catholic Church has its own guidelines on dressing properly without having to compromise the norms of a free state.
Are we not all grown up to know which is modest, and which is not?
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Like they said, they will use their women to impose Islam through lawsuits declaring discrimination and racism while they themselves walk around in comfortable Western clothes.
Don’t want it here because it is a profound and threatening political statement. The women are apparently living in a country that does not require protection from the sun.
Political. They are being used by a subversive organization. 90% of the mosques here are indeed comprised of politically motivated people to make America Islam.
I don’t like the nudity in Europe either. There is a large island by us…they have a nudist camp there and nobody sees them. They are out of public sight. But the atheist seculars would try to get them out in public to bring down modesty, and on the other hand use the burqas to impose special rights for Islam.
Don’t want it here because it is a profound and threatening political statement. The women are apparently living in a country that does not require protection from the sun.
Political. They are being used by a subversive organization. 90% of the mosques here are indeed comprised of politically motivated people to make America Islam.
I don’t like the nudity in Europe either. There is a large island by us…they have a nudist camp there and nobody sees them. They are out of public sight. But the atheist seculars would try to get them out in public to bring down modesty, and on the other hand use the burqas to impose special rights for Islam.
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Bluegoat
Guest
I think you have a lot of fear you need to get over. It is very unlikely that Muslims are out to get you.
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KathleenGee
Guest
I have a community 10 blocks from me, and the most violent mosque was here 2 miles away. And the seculars had our city the only one in the USA to block FBI aid to protect our city…even people of alternative culture were very disturbed.
And these are the same ones who forced pornography in our neighborhood. The schoolbus goes around a pornshop with mannequins wearing hardly anything, the bus only feet away.
Two worlds side by side.
I have personally been insulted, had women deliberately crowd in front of me with their gowns, and 2 houses had Middle Eastern people move in with satellite dishes, cardboard across the windows, statements denouncing our former president…finally police swarmed the places…the houses about 20 blocks.
I am not afraid personally, would like to extend myself at times, but all the women wear those clothes (faces not covered), and at this time do not know how they would react to me if I went to visit.
And these are the same ones who forced pornography in our neighborhood. The schoolbus goes around a pornshop with mannequins wearing hardly anything, the bus only feet away.
Two worlds side by side.
I have personally been insulted, had women deliberately crowd in front of me with their gowns, and 2 houses had Middle Eastern people move in with satellite dishes, cardboard across the windows, statements denouncing our former president…finally police swarmed the places…the houses about 20 blocks.
I am not afraid personally, would like to extend myself at times, but all the women wear those clothes (faces not covered), and at this time do not know how they would react to me if I went to visit.
B
benidict
Guest
you may want to study what happened in egypt with the muslim take over there. similar to what they are doing in france, england, etc. they deffinitly have an agenda. its part of their religion. you are either of the house of islam. or the house of satan. i sure the coptics who were over thrown, would not be as tolerant today if they saw what was happening today, in some of these more tolerant european societies. who are seeing the riots, and uprisings. Peace
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benidict
Guest
at this point in time, kathleen. they would probably fix you some chi.(very good by the way.) and cook you some very good food. looking forward to it myself, when i deploy. you only need worry, when they start to get more politically powerful. i dont believe this will ever happen in america. simply because we americans, are not to nice, historically, to people who attempt to change our way of life. either legislatively, or by militaristic, or terroristic means. Peace
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Kaninchen
Guest
A large proportion of the Muslims I come across day-to-day seem to be part of a great conspiracy to sell me fruit.
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Nudist colonies, porn shops, Muslims in burkas, where in the heck do you live, Kathleen!? LOL…I go to San Francisco once in a while to check out a Giants game and I don’t even see that there! LOL
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blazerdave
Guest
I just saw this thread and haven’t read it yet, but I must say that this is the most unlikely thread title that I have ever seen. 
K
karoleck
Guest
This is what Senator Cory Bernadi has written on his web site–there are good points in it from a social side of things.
06 May 2010
Ban the Burqa
The burqa is no longer simply the symbol of female repression and Islamic culture, it is now emerging as the preferred disguise of bandits and n’er do wells.
In Sydney this morning a man was robbed by a burqa wearing bandit who further disguised his (or her) identity by wearing sunglasses. The bandit was described by police as being of “Middle Eastern appearance”.
Well of course he was (assuming it was a he) because the only characteristics the victim could see were the burqa and the sunglasses. Now unless the sunglasses had ‘made in Iran’ stamped on them, it’s fair to say that the ‘Middle Eastern appearance’ line was attributed to the head to toe veiling of the Islamic burqa.
In my mind, the burqa has no place in Australian society. I would go as far as to say it is un-Australian. To me, the burqa represents the repressive domination of men over women which has no place in our society and compromises some of the most important aspects of human communication.
It also establishes a different set of rules and societal expectations in our hitherto homogenous society.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
As an avid motorcyclist I am required to remove my helmet before entering a bank or petrol station. It’s a security measure for the businesses and no reasonable person objects to this requirement. However, if I cover myself in a black cloth from head to toe, with only my eyes barely visible behind a mesh guard, I am effectively unidentifiable and can waltz into any bank unchallenged in the name of religious freedom.
Little wonder bank bandits in the UK are now becoming burqa bandits.
The same can be said for any number of areas where photographic identification is required. How many of us would ask for the veil to be dropped so we can compare the photo with the burqa wearer’s face? I suspect the fear of being called bigoted, racist, Islamaphobic or insensitive would prevent many from doing what they would not think twice about under normal circumstances.
Put simply, the burqa separates and distances the wearer from the normal interactions with broader society.
But there is a greater reason the burqa needs to be binned.
Equality of women is one of the key values in our secular society and any culture that believes only women should be covered in such a repressive manner is not consistent with the Australian culture and values.
Perhaps some of you will consider that burqa wearing should be a matter of personal choice, consistent with the freedoms our forefathers fought for. I disagree.
New arrivals to this country should not come here to recreate the living environment they have just left. They should come here for a better life based on the freedoms and values that have built our great nation.
The burqa isolates some Australians from others. Its symbolic barrier is far greater than the measure of cloth it is created from.
For safety and for society, the burqa needs to be banned in Australia.
06 May 2010
Ban the Burqa
The burqa is no longer simply the symbol of female repression and Islamic culture, it is now emerging as the preferred disguise of bandits and n’er do wells.
In Sydney this morning a man was robbed by a burqa wearing bandit who further disguised his (or her) identity by wearing sunglasses. The bandit was described by police as being of “Middle Eastern appearance”.
Well of course he was (assuming it was a he) because the only characteristics the victim could see were the burqa and the sunglasses. Now unless the sunglasses had ‘made in Iran’ stamped on them, it’s fair to say that the ‘Middle Eastern appearance’ line was attributed to the head to toe veiling of the Islamic burqa.
In my mind, the burqa has no place in Australian society. I would go as far as to say it is un-Australian. To me, the burqa represents the repressive domination of men over women which has no place in our society and compromises some of the most important aspects of human communication.
It also establishes a different set of rules and societal expectations in our hitherto homogenous society.
Let me give you a couple of examples.
As an avid motorcyclist I am required to remove my helmet before entering a bank or petrol station. It’s a security measure for the businesses and no reasonable person objects to this requirement. However, if I cover myself in a black cloth from head to toe, with only my eyes barely visible behind a mesh guard, I am effectively unidentifiable and can waltz into any bank unchallenged in the name of religious freedom.
Little wonder bank bandits in the UK are now becoming burqa bandits.
The same can be said for any number of areas where photographic identification is required. How many of us would ask for the veil to be dropped so we can compare the photo with the burqa wearer’s face? I suspect the fear of being called bigoted, racist, Islamaphobic or insensitive would prevent many from doing what they would not think twice about under normal circumstances.
Put simply, the burqa separates and distances the wearer from the normal interactions with broader society.
But there is a greater reason the burqa needs to be binned.
Equality of women is one of the key values in our secular society and any culture that believes only women should be covered in such a repressive manner is not consistent with the Australian culture and values.
Perhaps some of you will consider that burqa wearing should be a matter of personal choice, consistent with the freedoms our forefathers fought for. I disagree.
New arrivals to this country should not come here to recreate the living environment they have just left. They should come here for a better life based on the freedoms and values that have built our great nation.
The burqa isolates some Australians from others. Its symbolic barrier is far greater than the measure of cloth it is created from.
For safety and for society, the burqa needs to be banned in Australia.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
‘Get over it’…is the by word the Far Left tells everyone who doesn’t go along with their agenda…
I live in Moscow by the River…It is the best place in the world to live in if you are a tree. Sometimes people catch salmon on the river next to the city, and then you have lion seals down the river that are now eating alot of the fish…so nobody wants to hurt the seals…it is a good place for trees and seals.
When I moved here 20 years ago, the League of Women Voters sent me my sign up for – their Democratic – party. And the papers go on and on as if there is only one party…
It is all about control, the most regulated state in the country. I like the environment ideas and what people are doing locally…it is a popular place to have city chickens in your back yard…or you need advice on keeping your water clean, etc. You can grow food here 12 months out of the year and plenty of people to help you do it.
But with the control people, it is about 44% of the population here works for the government. My next door neighbor is part of the Moms taxing the Rich club. My husband and her husband DO NOT get along at all. The man tried to get our cats impounded inspite of the fact we live next to some acreage. Luckily at our annual Christmas party, all he got was a bag of cat treats…for REAL…and afterwards told me to forget the whole thing…but…our animals did not forget…One day on my deck, I heard my collie looking and and having this low growl…he kept on and on, and I looked out and it was him…Anyway, they represent ‘Tax’ the hell out of you.
I am finally getting some ideas on how to approach the porn problem, but will have to deal with the mafia. so keep me in your prayers. I do get my conscience pricked every time I drive by the Muslims, When I drove by with my collie sticking his head out, they would freak and the kids would run back to the porches.
This state is the center of anarchists and atheists. A lady told me years back that her mother said it is 80% nutts and 20% fruits…I do not know where I fit in after being here for 20 years and getting nutty myself.
I live in Moscow by the River…It is the best place in the world to live in if you are a tree. Sometimes people catch salmon on the river next to the city, and then you have lion seals down the river that are now eating alot of the fish…so nobody wants to hurt the seals…it is a good place for trees and seals.
When I moved here 20 years ago, the League of Women Voters sent me my sign up for – their Democratic – party. And the papers go on and on as if there is only one party…
It is all about control, the most regulated state in the country. I like the environment ideas and what people are doing locally…it is a popular place to have city chickens in your back yard…or you need advice on keeping your water clean, etc. You can grow food here 12 months out of the year and plenty of people to help you do it.
But with the control people, it is about 44% of the population here works for the government. My next door neighbor is part of the Moms taxing the Rich club. My husband and her husband DO NOT get along at all. The man tried to get our cats impounded inspite of the fact we live next to some acreage. Luckily at our annual Christmas party, all he got was a bag of cat treats…for REAL…and afterwards told me to forget the whole thing…but…our animals did not forget…One day on my deck, I heard my collie looking and and having this low growl…he kept on and on, and I looked out and it was him…Anyway, they represent ‘Tax’ the hell out of you.
I am finally getting some ideas on how to approach the porn problem, but will have to deal with the mafia. so keep me in your prayers. I do get my conscience pricked every time I drive by the Muslims, When I drove by with my collie sticking his head out, they would freak and the kids would run back to the porches.
This state is the center of anarchists and atheists. A lady told me years back that her mother said it is 80% nutts and 20% fruits…I do not know where I fit in after being here for 20 years and getting nutty myself.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
The Catholics here…another outsider like myself wondered why Catholics come to picnics and are so guarded…don’t open up, and if they do it takes a long time to get to that point…they open up and then you see them two days later, and it as if they had never spoken to you.
I found out the hard way that this is not a place to jump into ministry…alot of deep ties and turf…to go with the trees and seals.
In time, I thought the Church people were like Japan…when the nail stands up, it gets hammered down!
So I left town feeling like Ichabod, and joined the parish so many minutes by freeway and they have made up for lost time…very strong pro life group, women’s group, rosary group, K of C, taize prayer, great community outreach to the poor, and such a sense of unity. It is such a blessing being there…out on the edge of town by the river and pastures…like a monastery. Growing by leaps and bounds. No issues.
I found out the hard way that this is not a place to jump into ministry…alot of deep ties and turf…to go with the trees and seals.
In time, I thought the Church people were like Japan…when the nail stands up, it gets hammered down!
So I left town feeling like Ichabod, and joined the parish so many minutes by freeway and they have made up for lost time…very strong pro life group, women’s group, rosary group, K of C, taize prayer, great community outreach to the poor, and such a sense of unity. It is such a blessing being there…out on the edge of town by the river and pastures…like a monastery. Growing by leaps and bounds. No issues.
H
hamba2han
Guest
It is a part of human nature that we tend to move faster away from something that we loathe and despise than towards something that we are attracted to.
And so, the people who are pushing for this ban on the burqa in their countries have done a great deal more to persuade Muslim women all around the world to wear the burqa than most mullahs can ever hope to accomplish on their own.
In other words, it is the ugly agenda of the people who are pushing for this ban on Islamic head-scarves and veils which is driving many Muslim women to choose to wear them.
As can be seen repeatedly throughout the course of human history, religion thrives on persecution… and even what is perceived as persecution will have the effect of spurring the growth of religion and strengthening the faith of the believers.
And so, the people who are pushing for this ban on the burqa in their countries have done a great deal more to persuade Muslim women all around the world to wear the burqa than most mullahs can ever hope to accomplish on their own.
In other words, it is the ugly agenda of the people who are pushing for this ban on Islamic head-scarves and veils which is driving many Muslim women to choose to wear them.
As can be seen repeatedly throughout the course of human history, religion thrives on persecution… and even what is perceived as persecution will have the effect of spurring the growth of religion and strengthening the faith of the believers.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
With the Muslims persecuting and killing in most cruel way Christians around the world because they simply exist, expect many conversions coming from Islam.
This past year inspite of scandals in some countries, the numbers of people coming into the Catholic Church in USA has seen some of the highest numbers ever.
This past year inspite of scandals in some countries, the numbers of people coming into the Catholic Church in USA has seen some of the highest numbers ever.
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