Islamic Dialogue - Koranic Teachings

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Amoon said:
I believe that God’s revelations don’t contradict each other, and each revelation completes the previous one. So Jews had to accept Prophet Jesus, and since they didn’t, there must be changes that occurred in the Torah.

All Prophets came with similar principals, and all of them asked their people to believe in the One True God. Hence, the Bible is also corrupt because Jesus as all the Prophets did not come to say to people worship me as god!

But as we know from Quran, people of the Book hide the truth and misled people 3:187. And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! and vile was the bargain they made!

We also know that the Prophets told their people about the Prophets that would come after them, and Prophet Jesus did so. 61:6. And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: “O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.” But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"
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Sorry, Amoon. Jesus made no mention of Muhammed nor anyone else named Ahmad anywhere. That’s only contained in the Qur’an and nowhere else. Besides, I’ve never heard of or seen any prophet foretold by name anywhere in the Bible, from Creation to Jesus. No Jew or Christian was expecting anyone from Arabia, and Christians were certainly not expecting any new revelation at all except the return of Christ to Earth.
 
Why did Moh marry a 6 year old child and consummate the marriage at 9 years old? He was around 50 at the time. what was he doing with a child? He claims that Allah made it ‘lawful’ for him to marry her.

Sorry, but any God who wants a 50 year old man to have sex with a child is not God.

That is disgusting. And it may have been ‘normal’ back then, but surely, if he was a prophet, you’d think he would of known it was wrong. But instead he takes baths with her and even in one of the hadiths it says that after her and Moh got done having sex, she went out to play with her dolls. That’s just a little messed up to me. Well not a little… but alot. Ive talked to many ex-muslims and they all agree with me. It is wrong and gross. That even by itself would be enough for me not to follow him.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Why did Moh marry a 6 year old child and consummate the marriage at 9 years old? He was around 50 at the time. what was he doing with a child? He claims that Allah made it ‘lawful’ for him to marry her.

Sorry, but any God who wants a 50 year old man to have sex with a child is not God.

That is disgusting. And it may have been ‘normal’ back then, but surely, if he was a prophet, you’d think he would of known it was wrong. But instead he takes baths with her and even in one of the hadiths it says that after her and Moh got done having sex, she went out to play with her dolls. That’s just a little messed up to me. Well not a little… but alot. Ive talked to many ex-muslims and they all agree with me. It is wrong and gross. That even by itself would be enough for me not to follow him.
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First of all, we are very proud of this marriage between Prophet Mohammed and Aisha, our mother and beloved who narrated so many Hadiths of Prophet Mohammed and one of the greatest women teachers at that time. Moreover, we are sure that she was blessed to marry Prophet Mohammed and that it was one of the most beautiful things that happened in her life. It is actually one of the most beautiful incidents for Muslims too because we love her and appreciate her so much.

If the marriage between Prophet Mohammed and Aisha was abnormal at that time, we would have seen many of the people back then complaining or rejecting it. But even the infields and haters of Prophet Mohammed did not disagree with this marriage which shows that it was very normal.

Judging Prophet Mohammed’ prophethood by this incident is not logical because this is God’s plan. Prophet Mohammed had a vision for several days that he was seeing Aisha in silk and being told that she would be his wife, and he said that If God plans for this marriage then He will make it happen. After that, one of the women advised Prophet Mohammed to marry Aisha, and he asked her to go and ask her father Abu Bakir if he agreed on that marriage - Abu Bakir is the closest companion of Prophet Mohammed and the first Khalifat in Islam - But there was another man who already told Abu Bakir that he would like his son to marry Aisha, and Abu Bakir did not say yes or no to that man which was a sign of approval. So Abu Bakir went to that man because he considered that a promise and he did not use to break promises, but when he sat with the man and his wife, he saw that they were not interested on this marriage anymore, so he gladly agreed of the marriage between Prophet Mohammed and Aisha, but they did not get married until she was mature, which happened when she was 9.

This story also shows that it was very normal for people then to marry in young ages.

You don’t understand how God planned for this marriage but when you read about Aisha and her great personality, and how much she contributed in teaching people about the life of Prophet Mohammed, you would know that God’s plans are always fair.

Please read about the life of Prophet Mohammed from Muslim sources to know how great and supportive to women he was.
 
Amoon said:
I believe that God’s revelations don’t contradict each other, and each revelation completes the previous one. So Jews had to accept Prophet Jesus, and since they didn’t, there must be changes that occurred in the Torah.
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But Jews did accept Jesus: all the first Christians were Jews. Only the Jews who didn’t accept Jesus were left as non-Christian Jews. Surely the standard cannot be that absolutely everyone had to accept him, given that people make wrong decisions all the time for all sorts of reasons?

So, because Jews did in fact accept Jesus, and accepted him as Messiah and God based on his words and actions, can we say that the Septuagint that Jesus quoted, and which was in common use at the time, must be True?
 
Amoon said:
If the marriage between Prophet Mohammed and Aisha was abnormal at that time, we would have seen many of the people back then complaining or rejecting it. But even the infields and haters of Prophet Mohammed did not disagree with this marriage which shows that it was very normal.
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http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif Because Muhammed made that abnormal behavior as a normal Islamic Sharia law per Quran 65:4!!! :mad:. Marring a girl before she reach the stage of puberty is literally allowed in Islam, not only for Muhammed but for all Muslims, any Muslim man can marry a very young girl and divorce her before her puberty stage.

I suggest you ask all your Imams in UAE and read all the commentaries for the red part below. :dts:

(Quran 65:4):
YUSUFALI: Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

وَاللَّائِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَاثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ وَمَنْ يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلْ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْرًا
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Amoon, I don’t care one bit if they had a good relationship or if she was smart or if she spread his word.

HAVING SEX WITH A CHILD IS CALLED PEDOPHILIA/RAPE AND IT IS WRONG!

NO TRUE GOD WOULD ALLOW THIS AS NATURAL BEHAVIOR!

SHAME ON MOHAMMAD AND HIS DISGUSTING ACTIONS!

IF YOU THINK HAVING SEX WITH CHILDREN IS OKAY, THEN GO GET MENTAL HELP!

AND HOW DARE YOU DEFEND A ‘MAN’ WHO WOULD MOLEST A CHILD! HOW DARE YOU!

What has the world come to when I have to reseort to telling somebody that pedophilia is wrong. God, save us all! Amoon you defending child molesters is just downright scary. Please get mental help. And Jesus, have mercy on Amoon’s soul. He obviously not know what he do.
 
The point is that a prophet, if hes truly from god, WOULD NOT be having sex with a 9 year old child. He had dreams about and visions about her when she was 6 years old. He asked her father to marry her, and she was already set up for marriage. So he told her that allah made it lawful for him to be with her. Then the Dad said yes but he begged hiim to wait till she was 9 to consummate. Moh agreed.

I don’t care what anybody says. That is disgusting. And Amoon talking about how they had such a ‘great’ relationship reminds me of those creepy men from NAMBLA. Well they had good relationships with their boys, but that doesn’t mean its RIGHT!
 
the problem with that reasoning is that Muslims to this day consider it perfectly normal to marry girls of the same age because Mohammed did(as in "Prophet did it so its perfectly ok). While in ancient times girls of very young age(6-9) were engaged to men, most marriages weren’t consumated until they were older(I didn’t see too much evidence of 12 years old marriages being consumated, it appeared to be more along the lines of 14-16). Moreover, people in the Western world do not consider having sex with children of any ages normal , unlike Muslims who have the Quran to back them up. If you listen to various imams who talk about sexual acts with children who are only few months old because there is nothing in quran to prohibit this, it will make you want to puke. And belive me, they are certainly not “radical” in that kind of thinking
 
PumpkinSeed said:
The point is that a prophet, if hes truly from god, WOULD NOT be having sex with a 9 year old child. He had dreams about and visions about her when she was 6 years old. He asked her father to marry her, and she was already set up for marriage. So he told her that allah made it lawful for him to be with her. Then the Dad said yes but he begged hiim to wait till she was 9 to consummate. Moh agreed.

I don’t care what anybody says. That is disgusting. And Amoon talking about how they had such a ‘great’ relationship reminds me of those creepy men from NAMBLA. Well they had good relationships with their boys, but that doesn’t mean its RIGHT!
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agree with you there, brother. This kind of thing makes me want to throw up:sad_yes:
its clear that Mohammed was quite the perverted individual and all you have to do to see it is to read the hadith about his doings
 
Amoon said:
I am not really the right person to answer this question. In Islam, we have specific people who are authorized to give Fatwa. So not any Muslim can say something is allowed or not allowed. But as a Muslim, if I was invited to a church for baptism or wedding I wouldn’t go because God says in Quran, 4:140. Already has He sent you word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the Hypocrites and those who defy faith―all in hell―

In church, Christians would of course say that Jesus is son of god, and other things that we strongly disagree with, therefore, it is better for Muslims not be there. Therefore, I think inviting them to parties outside the church would be more appropriate.
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Thanks, that’s what I was thinking as well.
 
Bev17243 said:
agree with you there, brother. This kind of thing makes me want to throw up:sad_yes:
its clear that Mohammed was quite the perverted individual and all you have to do to see it is to read the hadith about his doings
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Yea it is honestly just terrible. Not to mention, in order to have sex, the male must be hard, so this means Mohammad got hard looking at a little 9 year old girls body. That is so disgusting and screwed up. I wish she didn’t have to be married to him. That must have been painful. As a child, she couldn’t give consent because they are no psychologically ready for that. Which automatically makes it rape. And any God who says that this is ‘lawful’ is a false God.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
Yea it is honestly just terrible. Not to mention, in order to have sex, the male must be hard, so this means Mohammad got hard looking at a little 9 year old girls body. That is so disgusting and screwed up. I wish she didn’t have to be married to him. That must have been painful. As a child, she couldn’t give consent because they are no psychologically ready for that. Which automatically makes it rape. And any God who says that this is ‘lawful’ is a false God.
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In the 12th century Gratian, the influential founder of Canon law in medieval Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be between 12 and 14 but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7.

The American colonies followed the English tradition, and the law was more of a guide. For example, Mary Hathaway (Virginia, 1689) was only 9 when she was married to William Williams. Sir Edward Coke (England, 17th century) "made it clear that the marriage of girls under 12 was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband’s estate was 9 even though her husband be only four years old.

Both taken from the Wiki “age of consent” article. Now then can we get back to an actual intellectual discussion?
 
Yea well excuses excuses.

Being a prophet God should of told him thats not okay. But according to Moh, he said God made it ‘lawful’. Disgusting and evil.
 
Plus, earlier in this thread someone mentioned that when the muslim population in the west or united states reaches a certain number then the sharia law will be slowly instituted. Yet, it should be noted that is nothing more than a scare tactic. Why? Because, the catholic population in the us is over 50 million and that is enough to change policies by electing catholic politicians yet, we have yet to be successful in reversing roe v wade. So we should all be more politically active. Yet we’re not.
 
You’ve never heard of somebody called Moh? Its short for Mohammad.

Just like some people call Jesus “JC”. Nothing wrong with it. People shorten their names all the time. I have a friend named Mohammad but we call him Moh. Sometimes even Hammy. 😃
 
Although I do agree that we should talk calmly. I hope you can surely understand my frustration with Amoon defending a child rapist. Because by definition if he was in his 50’s and she was 9 years old, that does make him a rapist/molester. And it is very hard to stay clam and peaceful because of how disgusting and upsetting it makes me. It just really rips apart my heart and fills me with anger that somebody could follow a man who would do that to a child. It really makes me wonder whats wrong with people.
 
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