Islamic Dialogue - Koranic Teachings

[Armyvet007]

Although I do agree that we should talk calmly. I hope you can surely understand my frustration with Amoon defending a child rapist. Because by definition if he was in his 50’s and she was 9 years old, that does make him a rapist/molester. And it is very hard to stay clam and peaceful because of how disgusting and upsetting it makes me. It just really rips apart my heart and fills me with anger that somebody could follow a man who would do that to a child. It really makes me wonder whats wrong with people.

What makes me wonder is how you could fail to do a basic internet search concerning age of consent [both in general and in regards to Catholic history], the history of childhood [yeah, up until the last 2 to 3 hundred years the modern concept of a “child” didn’t really exist], and marriage practices [same as the first, this time concerning age] prior to posting.

But, if you want to go with your heart being filled with rage, I suggest you review the history of age of consent in your own country. The US, for example, had a general age of consent around 10-12 near the end of the 19th Century [some states even lower then that]. Europe, not much better.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

What makes me wonder is how you could fail to do a basic internet search concerning age of consent [both in general and in regards to Catholic history], the history of childhood [yeah, up until the last 2 to 3 hundred years the modern concept of a “child” didn’t really exist], and marriage practices [same as the first, this time concerning age] prior to posting.

But, if you want to go with your heart being filled with rage, I suggest you review the history of age of consent in your own country. The US, for example, had a general age of consent around 10-12 near the end of the 19th Century [some states even lower then that]. Europe, not much better.

Well, the thing that disturbs me the most is that Moh really wanted to marry her at age 6. The father had asked him to wait 3 years. So if he didn’t ask, that means he would of been having sex at age 6. While I already know that a long time ago people married young, I do not think it was right for somebody who calls them-self a prophet. And just because things might have been normal back then, does not make it right. Since prophets are supposed to live a Godly life, a life that we should mirror, I don’t think Moh’s life should be something for us to live after. And yes, a 50 year old man having sex with a 9 year old child does gross me out and make me mad. And if it doesn’t make you mad, then I sure hope you dont have kids. However I can see this might cause a fight, so I’m out… for now.

 

[Sam_777]

 

[Dave_B]

And just because things might have been normal back then, does not make it right. Since prophets are supposed to live a Godly life, a life that we should mirror.

I agree with what you are saying. I think its just the emotive language that is sometimes used to do it. Having said that I dont think we should have to self censor ourselves from pointing out the comparison between the life of Jesus and that of Muhammed and which one is a good role model and which one is not.

 

[Bev17243]

pious? I know you believe that and that’s tragic. I would place Buddist and Hindu teachings in the “pious” category and give them the respect it deserves. Their faith doesn’t talk about killing all of us because we are “unbelivers”.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I agree with what you are saying. I think its just the emotive language that is sometimes used to do it. Having said that I dont think we should have to self censor ourselves from pointing out the comparison between the life of Jesus and that of Muhammed and which one is a good role model and which one is not.

But isn’t that part of who to choose which religion is right? It would only make sens that one would go for the Godly and moral one over the immoral one, right?

And you already know which one I chose. I Jesus.

Sometimes when I have a really bad day I pray for his speedy coming. Just like it says to in the bible. The thought of being in heaven with him makes me happy. At least I know where I’m going after death. At least I hope.

 

[Dave_B]

You can defend them if u wish, but the fact remains that their holy book instructs them to kill infidels. That is why we need to be constantly vigilant. We are kidding ourselves if we think thiis threat will go away.

 

[Augustine3]

You can defend them if u wish, but the fact remains that their holy book instructs them to kill infidels. That is why we need to be constantly vigilant. We are kidding ourselves if we think thiis threat will go away.

Amen!

 

[Dave_B]

No, we have good reason to think Islam is different.

Have a read of Quran 5:33, Quran 8:12, and Sahih Bukhari 4:52:261 which explain about Muhammed’s torture of infidels. ** I wont reproduce them here **because I dont believe it appropriate on this forum. God bless.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

No, we have good reason to think Islam is different.

Have a read of Quran 5:33, Quran 8:12, and Sahih Bukhari 4:52:261 which explain about Muhammed’s torture of infidels. ** I wont reproduce them here **because I dont believe it appropriate on this forum. God bless.

I have read many of those verses. It is pretty threatening.

 

[Bev17243]

oh, please it seems like you live in UK-are you really that blind about what’s happening in your own country regarding Islam and Muslims? Do you really think that everyone who thinks that Islamic teachings are far more violent and carry sinister implications is a complete ignorant fool? Most people here read Quran and know what it teaches. You are the one with excuses who is playing an ostrich. Your choice:shrug:

 

[Bernadette173]

I never claim this, and the prophets in the Qur’an come with other attributes of their divine mission.
In the Qur’an, the newly-born infant Jesus spoke to a crowd of people who had accused Maryam (Mary) of some sexual impropriety, and defended his mother.

The Qur’an is mixing up the passage of of having people believe Maryam[Mary] ia a part of the Trinity. Catholics do not believe any such thing Newborn infant Jesus did not need to defend Mary in that Jesus conception was Immaculate, done by the power of the Holy Spirit, but Muslims reject the idea and fact of the Triune nature of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Muslims do not understand that the Holy angel sent by God did NOT have sexual realations with Mary, therefore no sin of adultery was commited either.

Muslims believe that as Catholics we distort and blaspheme God in that we believe we are created in His image. Muslims reject the speculation that God is our Father, and take it as blasphemy that we as Catholics believe that we can become sons and daughters of God.
Muhammed’s Nestorian cousin Waraqa ibn Naufal and this sect of Christian believers rejected Mary as the Mother of God [the Son], and teach that those who believe this are making Mary equal to Allah [God] We as Catholics do not worship Mary, she is not a part of the Trinity We venerate her. And the lesson of the woman caught in adultry is **not **about Mary, Jesus was a full grown man who had asked a woman about to be put to death by stoning where her accusers were. Jesus had siad to those who accused her that “those among you without sin cast the first stone.” When none could say they were without sin they dropped their weapons and left the woman alone. It is when she was alone with Jesus that he said, " You have no accusers, nor do I accuse you. Go on your way and sin no more."

I do not say these words to aggrivate but to educate you on the misunderstandings you have about the Catholic religion Kouyate.

 

[kengel1021]

Throw away your Bible -

Throw away your belief in Our Lord Jesus Christ, Our Lord

• and then you can read their entire koran where it
• denies Christ, our Lord,
• denies the Crucifixion
• denies the Resurrection
• denies the Son of God

Okay: This is my first post and I am sure this will make some waves over the content.

There are very logical reasons why Muslims don’t accept Jesus Christ as God incarnate. Jesus Christ himself was human. He was born an infant, he grew into childhood and eventually became a man. If Jesus Christ had not been crucified, Jesus would have become an elderly man and eventually pass away from natural causes. God himself is immortal with no beginning and no end. God never changes.

Jesus Christ required sustenance (air, food, water, clothing, shelter). God does not require any of these things because he’s all knowing and all powerful.

The trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) has been likened to an equilateral triangle (3 sides all equal) but one shape (i.e. one God). What is left unsaid is that Jesus Christ himself understood that he was subordinate, not equal to God the Father. Jesus Christ himself prayed to his heavenly father and taught his disciples how to do so. This rules out any concept of “equal standing”. You don’t pray to someone who is your equal. You pray to someone who is your superior.

 

[Augustine3]

Okay: This is my first post and I am sure this will make some waves over the content.

There are very logical reasons why Muslims don’t accept Jesus Christ as God incarnate. Jesus Christ himself was human. He was born an infant, he grew into childhood and eventually became a man. If Jesus Christ had not been crucified, Jesus would have become an elderly man and eventually pass away from natural causes. God himself is immortal with no beginning and no end. God never changes.

Jesus Christ required sustenance (air, food, water, clothing, shelter). God does not require any of these things because he’s all knowing and all powerful.

The trinity (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) has been likened to an equilateral triangle (3 sides all equal) but one shape (i.e. one God). What is left unsaid is that Jesus Christ himself understood that he was subordinate, not equal to God the Father. Jesus Christ himself prayed to his heavenly father and taught his disciples how to do so. This rules out any concept of “equal standing”. You don’t pray to someone who is your equal. You pray to someone who is your superior.

Hi Kengel,

Welcome to the Catholic forum, God bless you and I hope we can engage in a healthy dialogue.

If God was to assume a human nature how else would you expect it to work if He did not go through all these things i.e. He aged, required sustenance etc.?

We believe when He assumed a human nature He was 100% man, therefore he had all the attributes of a man.

 

[Dave_B]

Okay: This is my first post and I am sure this will make some waves over the content.

Welcome to the forum.

Who Jesus is, is a profound mystery.

btw Jesus was and is the only sinless person in history. Since he is sinless and perfect, he must also be God.

Kengel, please pray and meditate on the gospels.

 

[Dave_B]

2000 17 November: Police arrest Moinul Abedin. His Birmingham house contained bomb-making instructions, equipment, and traces of the explosive HTMD. A nearby lock-up rented by Abedin contained 100 kg of the chemical components of HTMD.
2005 7 July: The 7 July 2005 London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers, killing 56 people and injuring 700.
2005 21 July: The 21 July 2005 London bombings, also conducted by four would-be suicide bombers on the public transport, whose bombs failed to go off.
2006 28 September: Talbot Street bomb-making haul
2007 1 February: The 2007 Plot to behead a British Muslim soldier
2007 29 June: 2007 London car bombs.
2007 30 June: 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists.
2008 27 February: British police thwarted a suspected plot to kill Abdullah of Saudi Arabia during a state visit to Britain in the year 2007 a senior officer said.
2008 22 May: 22 May 2008 Exeter bombing by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.

Not much going on the last couple of years

 

[Dave_B]

I think the difference is that muslim terrorism has religious foundation for their actions in their holy book and in th life of their prophet.

Yes, there are violent passages in the hebrew old testament. But we dont follow the old testament. We follow the covenant of love in the new testament which I believe is essentially a non violent message.

If you read the quran and the hadith which documents the life of Muhammed you can see that it actives promotes the killing of infidels. I think we are only kidding ourselves this isnt the case.

 

[Armyvet007]

I think the difference is that muslim terrorism has religious foundation for their actions in their holy book and in th life of their prophet.

Yes, there are violent passages in the hebrew old testament. But we dont follow the old testament. We follow the covenant of love in the new testament which I believe is essentially a non violent message.

If you read the quran and the hadith which documents the life of Muhammed you can see that it actives promotes the killing of infidels. I think we are only kidding ourselves this isnt the case.

Really? Please explain the bombings of abortion clinics by Christian fundamentalists, and the early years of the KKK, and that militia group taken down by the FBI in Michigan a couple of years ago, and Monte Miller’s group Concerned Christians, and the early history of Mormonism [included for those who classify Mormons as Christian], That’s just looking at the results of a quick internet search for Christian terrorism in the US in the modern [historically speaking] era. Your argument is flawed in that it assumes the idea of terrorism [itself a modern concept] is somehow ingrained in Islamic teachings. It is also flawed because it assumes the rise of Islamic terrorism [which didn’t really start until the last century or so] is caused by Islam and not some other possible factor [such as nationalism]. If you wish to argue that Islam is the primary/sole/main cause of Islamic terrorism you need to show all other major possible factors have been accounted for and shown invalid.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

2000 17 November: Police arrest Moinul Abedin. His Birmingham house contained bomb-making instructions, equipment, and traces of the explosive HTMD. A nearby lock-up rented by Abedin contained 100 kg of the chemical components of HTMD.
2005 7 July: The 7 July 2005 London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers, killing 56 people and injuring 700.
2005 21 July: The 21 July 2005 London bombings, also conducted by four would-be suicide bombers on the public transport, whose bombs failed to go off.
2006 28 September: Talbot Street bomb-making haul
2007 1 February: The 2007 Plot to behead a British Muslim soldier
2007 29 June: 2007 London car bombs.
2007 30 June: 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists.
2008 27 February: British police thwarted a suspected plot to kill Abdullah of Saudi Arabia during a state visit to Britain in the year 2007 a senior officer said.
2008 22 May: 22 May 2008 Exeter bombing by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.

Not much going on the last couple of years

go to thereligionofpeace.com and you will see all the islamic terrorist attacks around the world.

So far there have been 18,638 terrorist attacks since 9/11!

That is terrible!

 

[PumpkinSeed]

The problem is that most of those terrorists use their Quaranic verses as justification. I don’t know of any terrorist justifying verses in the Bible…