Islamic Dress

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Flamingo

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I hope I’m posting this in the right forum.

I have quite a few really great Muslim friends, and personally, I believe that their style of dress is absolutely beautiful. Lately, I’ve seen a few posts on CAF bashing Islamic dress? Why all the hatred? Am I missing something?

When I talk about it with my friends, none of them view it as oppressive! In fact, just the opposite! They view it as liberating to dress modestly (as we all should!)! They cover their arms, legs, and hair. I am aware that Islam does not always have the best connotation, but I simply do not understand why there are so man unkind comments concerning their modest dress?
 
… Neither do I.

Modesty is a splendid virtue. Heroic practice of it is all the more splendid.
 
First, you must define “modest dress”. Is covering oneself from head to toe the only form of “modest dress”. I guess there is a lot to be said for beauty being in the eye of the beholder. I have two problems with Isamic dress. One, it men forcing rules on women because they (the men) cannot control their lust. Second, from a security standpoint I want to be able to identify ever person I see. Just because I am paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get me.
 
Flamingo said:
I hope I’m posting this in the right forum.

I have quite a few really great Muslim friends, and personally, I believe that their style of dress is absolutely beautiful. Lately, I’ve seen a few posts on CAF bashing Islamic dress? Why all the hatred? Am I missing something?

When I talk about it with my friends, none of them view it as oppressive! In fact, just the opposite! They view it as liberating to dress modestly (as we all should!)! They cover their arms, legs, and hair. I am aware that Islam does not always have the best connotation, but I simply do not understand why there are so man unkind comments concerning their modest dress?
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Shin said:
… Neither do I.

Modesty is a splendid virtue. Heroic practice of it is all the more splendid.
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Is it truly modest to cover your arms legs and hair? Is it immodest to show some of your legs and arms, or all of your air?

No, of course not. The Church has never taught such a twisted view of modesty, and never will. We need real modesty in our time, but false Muslim modesty.
 
Modesty is all about concealing and not revealing. The more concealed, the more the virtue is practiced. 🤷

‘When she was thrown into the air by a savage bull in the amphitheatre at Carthage, her first thought and action when she fell to the ground was to rearrange her dress to cover her thigh, because she was more concerned for modesty than pain.’

Pope Pius XII, Allocution to the Girls of Catholic Action, speaking of St. Perpetua

‘A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper.’

The Cardinal Vicar of Pope Pius XI

‘Below the knee, halfway down the arm, and two finger widths below the collarbone.’

Pope Pius XII
 
loonwatch.com/2011/04/catholic-nun-forcibly-removed-from-plane-for-wearing-muslim-garb/

//Catholic Nun Forcibly Removed From Plane for Wearing “Muslim Garb”

“I had just sat down in my seat, and started to thank God for our blessings and recite a prayer in Latin”, she recalled, when one of the passengers sitting next to me called the flight attendant. The passenger was Elizabeth Bennet, who later stated: “It is not that we were prejudiced, but she did seem very suspicious. She was dressed in Muslim garb and just before we were about to take off, she started mumbling something in an Arabian or Talibani-sounding language. What was I supposed to do?”//
 
Shin said:
Modesty is all about concealing and not revealing. The more concealed, the more the virtue is practiced. 🤷
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I’m pretty sure that’s not true. If it were, it would mean that for everyone, the covered we are, the more modest. This is not the case. A man with a long sleeve shirt on isn’t more modest than a man with a short sleeve shirt on.
 
Alexander_Smith said:
I’m pretty sure that’s not true. If it were, it would mean that for everyone, the covered we are, the more modest. This is not the case. A man with a long sleeve shirt on isn’t more modest than a man with a short sleeve shirt on.
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Actually, he is.

That would be part of why, for example, an old friend of mine got in trouble once for trying to go to church at San Giovanni Rotundo, in a short sleeved shirt and shorts.

They had forgotten about what they were wearing. Or they -never- would have done it. 🙂 But when St. Padre Pio opened the Confessional door, they were in the midst of remembering, and they -ran- outta there. 😃
 
Alexander_Smith said:
I’m pretty sure that’s not true. If it were, it would mean that for everyone, the covered we are, the more modest. This is not the case. A man with a long sleeve shirt on isn’t more modest than a man with a short sleeve shirt on.
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👍

Which is the most modest? A man wearing a tight long-sleeved shirt while boasting about how it shows his muscles, or a man wearing a short-sleeved loose shirt without boasting at all?

Modesty cannot be measured by the length of your clothes.
 
That’s comparing apples and oranges, or if you will, lemons and limes. 😃
 
I do think the muslim Idea of modest dress is admirable but only applying to women is questionable also the Idea that it is the womens choice is fine in the west but try to go out in many middle east countries as a woman without sticking to the dress codes to a certain degree and see how quickly you will be dealt with.

I personally see no sin in immodest dress as its my fault if I can’t control my mind and thoughts but I do wish the people who choose to dress this way would make life a little easier for me and others by dressing so we dont need to exercise such controll. Im sure women can also find an immodestly dressed man can be a sourse of temptation too 😃
 
I think there are two issues here.
  1. Our conception of modesty, which has developed in recent decades, I believe, for the best. We have a more natural and less fearful relation to the body now. Excesses have been and are committed, but a saner view of one’s body (as something good and not only an occasion for sin) leads to less concern about external clothing rules, focusing more on what works and what doesn’t work regarding clothing (which includes both a sane concern for modesty, that is, not creating unreasonable occasions for sin, and also about beauty, comfort, etc).
  2. What kind of Islamic dress we are talking about. A common veil covering the hair is beautiful, it can be argued. I think there might be a desire there to impose notions of excessive humility on women (notions which, growing up in such a culture, they would naturally embrace; but that doesn’t make them true). Still, it seems a reasonable thing to do and I understand people wanting not to attract too much attention to themselves, women not wanting to call the attention of men, etc.
Now, the niqab (full covering of body and head with a slit for the eyes) and the burqa (full cover from head to toe, period), are not only very ugly but an insult to women, as it simply annihilates their public existence (in keeping with the Islamic injunction that the only men a woman should interact with are her husband and blood relatives) and negates their individuality. I understand that there are women who defend even this horrible coverings as somehow liberating and respectful; they must have very low self-respect.
 
I wish more Western women covered themselves to the extent that many Muslims do.

When you look at all of the Christian art depicting Mary (or her Jewish contemporaries) she looks more like a modern Muslim woman than your typical Christian.

There just is no good that comes of exposing a woman’s flesh, regardless of how you define “modesty”. Sure, some Muslim men get upset when a woman does not cover herself. But think about it: we’re men, and we’re weak and sinful like anyone else! Knowing that, women should not exacerbate the problem by actively or passively tempting others! Sadly, that’s what many, many women, particularly those of the younger generations, do, and deliberately.

And to those who feel that they have a right to see a woman uncovered for security’s sake…get over yourself. Demanding that another uncover herself so that you feel safer is perhaps the height of immodesty. Who are you to disregard another’s conscience so flagrantly?
 
I don’t think people are being fair here… if a woman wore a dress to the knee a thousand years ago, showing leg, that would have been immodest. And yet within the last century this is seen as modest. Clearly we have to look at things in context of the society, and in today’s society, a normal pair of pants or jeans is not immodest on a woman. And sometimes it’s more practical. This is coming from somebody who her friends don’t even recognize when she’s not wearing a dress 😛 Pants can be just as modest as a skirt if they fit correctly. (But dresses are prettier and more comfortable… so… 😉 )
 
bearer said:
But think about it: we’re men, and we’re weak and sinful like anyone else! Knowing that, women should not exacerbate the problem by actively or passively tempting others! Sadly, that’s what many, many women, particularly those of the younger generations, do, and deliberately.
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Actually I’m a man and I’m just as hormonal as any other (only perhaps not as obvious). However, I do not let my weaknesses be an excuse to blame women for anything I should have more responsibility for in the first place. This tendency to impose some value on superficial appearances is nothing more than a corruption of our rational senses. It doesn’t exacerbate when we refuse to allow our minds to be dictated by such shallow perceptions such as physical appearances.
 
Oh and don’t forget what many Catholic women look like:
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Or look at our beautiful sisters in the East:
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I would say that these are far more beautiful. And sure we don’t wear them all the time, but we wear them when it matters, and it’s worth remembering that covering our heads is part of our tradition too 🙂
 
bearer said:
And to those who feel that they have a right to see a woman uncovered for security’s sake…get over yourself. Demanding that another uncover herself so that you feel safer is perhaps the height of immodesty. Who are you to disregard another’s conscience so flagrantly?
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I see nothing wrong with demanding that a woman not cover her FACE for security sake. In case of an accident, when identifying witnesses, or when asking for proof of identity you must be able to see someone’s face.

If a woman must hide her face for modesty’s sake then it is the the men who should all be locked up since they are incapable of looking at a woman’s face and controlling their behavior.
 
PolyphonyChick said:
I don’t think people are being fair here… if a woman wore a dress to the knee a thousand years ago, showing leg, that would have been immodest. And yet within the last century this is seen as modest. Clearly we have to look at things in context of the society, and in today’s society, a normal pair of pants or jeans is not immodest on a woman.
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But shouldn’t we be aiming for an objective standard? If the standards of modesty have fallen over the last 1000 years, might that not indicate that we are merely tolerating a more imperfect standard of modesty today?
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Actually I’m a man and I’m just as hormonal as any other (only perhaps not as obvious). However, I do not let my weaknesses be an excuse to blame women for anything I should have more responsibility for in the first place. This tendency to impose some value on superficial appearances is nothing more than a corruption of our rational senses. It doesn’t exacerbate when we refuse to allow our minds to be dictated by such shallow perceptions such as physical appearances.
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The only ones to blame are Satan and those who give in to his temptation.

Man is who he is. Knowing that, we can be individuals and disregard our brothers and sisters, or we can come together as a church and help each other stand against evil, temptation, and sin.

It’s simple, really.
 
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