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karow
Guest
And that, my friend, is why I said misogyny.
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karow
Guest
Thank you.
Code:
Economic troubles + Islamophobia = Vail Ban
General xenophobia
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wwolverine
Guest
What is an Islamic dress? Which islamic country is following it? Why are most islamic countries not making it compulsary to all muslim woman to wear it?
The most powerful islamic country and may be the only nuclear one, which raises its voice to anything that is against Islam is Pakistan, and yet most of the muslim woman in pakistan dont wear this islamic dress. The most richest islamic country is saudi, and there too there are many who dont wear it, Other middle east islamic countries like UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, only a fraction wear it, rest all dont,
So when France bans it why all the hue and cry? Did France ban the Hijab, ie the islamic dress woman wear to hide their modesty, or did they ban the veil that hides their faces, which most woman in islamic countries themselves dont wear it?
The most powerful islamic country and may be the only nuclear one, which raises its voice to anything that is against Islam is Pakistan, and yet most of the muslim woman in pakistan dont wear this islamic dress. The most richest islamic country is saudi, and there too there are many who dont wear it, Other middle east islamic countries like UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, only a fraction wear it, rest all dont,
So when France bans it why all the hue and cry? Did France ban the Hijab, ie the islamic dress woman wear to hide their modesty, or did they ban the veil that hides their faces, which most woman in islamic countries themselves dont wear it?
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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Yes one should dress modest. But I can’t agree with that statement, using that logic one could just as easily say "Alms giving is all about the giving and not the keeping. The more you give the more virtue is practice,
" but Jesus disproved that with the lesson of the poor widow’s offering. Virtue is not about how something is done but why something is done. As far as dress did not Jesus say “Beware of the teachers of the law. *They like to walk around in flowing robes…” * - here too is another important life lesson: wearing “flowing robes” (or any other type of clothing) doesn’t make you better or holier than anyone else in the world.
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Bob_Crowley
Guest
I haven’t got a problem with modesty in dress, nor do I have a problem with national costumes.
But I do have a problem when dress becomes a religious icon, particularly when I consider that the dress worn by female Moslems is really nothing more than a variation of Arab desert dress suited to the desert climate and protection from the sun.
When it’s all said and done, the main issue of contention is the Burqa, or veil, which lets the other person see nothing but a woman’s eyes. There are both social and practical reasons why we should be able to see a person’s face in public.
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MontChevalier
Guest
That would be cause I’m old school.And that, my friend, is why I said misogyny.
I don’t want women and death together. It’s already frightening enough for men.
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thirddec
Guest
I am afraid I have to disagree; if the British in Northern Ireland had seen a woman in full Black head to to and face covered with a veil walking toward a checkpoint im sure she would have been forced at gunpoint to the floor 
. They Shot Joy riders in belfast.
As far as France not doing it for security you are wrong; France is doing it for security but in a much broader sence because the see it as a bar to better integration and they see the lack of integration as a great security threat to the future.
. They Shot Joy riders in belfast.As far as France not doing it for security you are wrong; France is doing it for security but in a much broader sence because the see it as a bar to better integration and they see the lack of integration as a great security threat to the future.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
I don’t think Jharek was saying that they would not have minded a woman wearing a full niqab, but that he was saying that women managed to smuggle bombs without needing to wear it by pretending to be pregnant and that this ban in France wouldn’t stop such women intent on things.I am afraid I have to disagree; if the British in Northern Ireland had seen a woman in full Black head to to and face covered with a veil walking toward a checkpoint im sure she would have been forced at gunpoint to the floor
As far as France not doing it for security you are wrong; France is doing it for security but in a much broader sence because the see it as a bar to better integration and they see the lack of integration as a great security threat to the future.
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Catholic41506
Guest
I would prefer women dressed more modestly as it would prevent lustful thoughts.
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mark_avery
Guest
I would say that its a great way to deceive yourself let alone others, not really a virtue, but understandable when its done for the lack of trust they have of men.
Also is it not but such other than the face that men maybe dwell upon…,at least those that choose to ignore civil liberty.
Also is it not but such other than the face that men maybe dwell upon…,at least those that choose to ignore civil liberty.
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thirddec
Guest
Its not amodest dress its quite the opposite in western society; its a religious and political statment that draws attention to themselves. Someone earlier called it a uniform and thats correct; why black not blue ot pink or floral what does that have re modesty. Wake up and smell the coffee guys and stop defending the indefensable. 
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incense
Guest
I remember reading about foot binding in China and how a foot was the object of lust. And remember, these feet were bound, misshaped, and usually smelly from infection. Men will be lustful no matter what body part is showing or not showing.
I don’t know why dressing “modestly” would be freeing for these women. Did they explain? Nineteenth century women did not find their long dresses freeing, they were dangerous, made them faint, and trip, and unable to climb stairs while carrying something in both hands.
The paintings of Mary show her garbed from head to foot, but is that really true? Wasn’t her gown cut above the foot? Those paintings would probably reflect the medieval views that a woman’s dress should be to the ground.
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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
The problem with talking about islam is there really isn’t a central and there can be two conflicting opinions, if you bring up one example and another contradictory example can be used, not all moslems dress the same, and the issue of the French law that only effects a small minority (est 2000 people out of few million in France), and I find it interesting if someone rationalize the intentions of (and purpose behind) the islamic dress code it’s spun to referendum against all moslems, there is a common tacit some people use when it comes to issues concerning islam, if a person hears something that offends islam make a mountain out of a mole hill then beat your opponent over the head with the mountain.
One things mostly all moslems agree in islam is that they do not believe in the Trinity and do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And one has to begin with the question does islam equal Catholicism? Does a religion without Jesus Christ as the Son of God is equal or better than a religion that has Jesus Christ as the Son? When talking about some action a moslem does without Christ the motives are indeed different than those of a Christian denomination that does have Christ as a part of their theology. There isn’t an offering up of a action up to Jesus Christ as the Son so action is not the same, so the virtue isn’t as perfect as it would be with Jesus Christ. Modesty when Jesus Christ is the aspiration of the virtue is more perfect than any action that looks similar to it but has other intentions for its motive.
thirddec is not so “ludicrous” or “excessively [negative]” towards islam if that is what you are implying. thirddec didn’t go to extremes with “religious and political” because that is a viewpoint that moslems would use to describe islam. Does the talk “smacks of the worst excesses of anti-Catholicism, only remodeled somewhat?” I would have to say no, it might not be the most popular opinion here that it’s a “religious and political statement to draw attention to themselves” but it is a way of exploring other motives for an action that doesn’t have love of Christ as it’s object. There can be other reasons that compels a moslem to a strict dress code like fear of punishment, over-scrupulosity, even pride.
This is a rare case, but it shows how following islamic dress code supersedes the dignity of a person. It’s truly sad if one thinks about, that they didn’t have the ability to discern what is more valuable and important, islamic dress code or human life.
"
BBC News
[/QUOTE]
"]Saudi Arabia’s religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.
In a rare criticism of the kingdom’s powerful “mutaween” police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
Saudi hospital staff carry a victim of the girl school fire to an ambulance in Mecca
15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom’s strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen “beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya”.
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned “it is a sinful to approach them”.
The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
“Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice,” the newspaper concluded.
One things mostly all moslems agree in islam is that they do not believe in the Trinity and do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And one has to begin with the question does islam equal Catholicism? Does a religion without Jesus Christ as the Son of God is equal or better than a religion that has Jesus Christ as the Son? When talking about some action a moslem does without Christ the motives are indeed different than those of a Christian denomination that does have Christ as a part of their theology. There isn’t an offering up of a action up to Jesus Christ as the Son so action is not the same, so the virtue isn’t as perfect as it would be with Jesus Christ. Modesty when Jesus Christ is the aspiration of the virtue is more perfect than any action that looks similar to it but has other intentions for its motive.
thirddec is not so “ludicrous” or “excessively [negative]” towards islam if that is what you are implying. thirddec didn’t go to extremes with “religious and political” because that is a viewpoint that moslems would use to describe islam. Does the talk “smacks of the worst excesses of anti-Catholicism, only remodeled somewhat?” I would have to say no, it might not be the most popular opinion here that it’s a “religious and political statement to draw attention to themselves” but it is a way of exploring other motives for an action that doesn’t have love of Christ as it’s object. There can be other reasons that compels a moslem to a strict dress code like fear of punishment, over-scrupulosity, even pride.
This is a rare case, but it shows how following islamic dress code supersedes the dignity of a person. It’s truly sad if one thinks about, that they didn’t have the ability to discern what is more valuable and important, islamic dress code or human life.
"
BBC News
[/QUOTE]
"]Saudi Arabia’s religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.
In a rare criticism of the kingdom’s powerful “mutaween” police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
Saudi hospital staff carry a victim of the girl school fire to an ambulance in Mecca
15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom’s strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen “beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya”.
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned “it is a sinful to approach them”.
The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
“Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice,” the newspaper concluded.
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thirddec
Guest
What can you say when you here stories like these schoolgirls; or when you see stonings etc, I would always try to live and let live but when I see such a danger I cant ignore the risk. If you see a match beside a bale of hay any sensable person would put it out. It might be small now but give it a chance and your in trouble. When its ok and expected to lie that your a muslim in an enemy teritory to save your life but in a muslim country its not ok to run out of a fire if you are female without a burka you can see why i’m tense on stopping any further encroachment of Islam beyond personal belief. Sharia law is being promoted already in Britain 
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thirddec
Guest
I see your profile ; ditto; Irish in London 
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MontChevalier
Guest
I haven’t heard that, nor read that, anywhere. But it doesn’t change how I feel.
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thirddec
Guest
Yes I remember; and being from the Border Counties I remember being searched 3-4 times on a trip from monaghan to donegal and am well aquanted with how the British Propaganda machine operates and still operates and how blind their own nationals are to how they are manipulated at times by the british media. Yes I see similarities and at this moment in time it suits the British media to take the lines it does but that does not mean that Radical Islam is not a threat. It is a bigger threat than many terrorist organisations because its agenda has a much bigger scope than a local nationalistic issue.
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schaick
Guest
Yes it can be beautiful, just as any native cosume can be.
I question the forcing all women to conform to the very same dress, erasing all other forms of expression a woman has in dressing herself.
I question forcing women to cover their face, hide their identity. Humans read faces-how we recognize people, how we communicate without speaking.
I question **forcing **women to wear burkas - heavy and hot- smothering.
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Peepers
Guest
(name removed by moderator) - If we were working a checkpoint together, then I will take the females in western dress, and you can have the ones who are covered.
Don’t get me wrong though. While I recognize that the real threat increases from any potential assailant, when that assailant is able to hide weapons or ordinance, I don’t think this is sufficient reason to tell women how to dress. In a high security situation, there are precautions which may be taken using technology and good old canine sniffers and body searches. I believe that women everywhere should be able to dress however they want to. I object to efforts to tell them what to wear. For my own moral equilibrium, I prefer not to be confronted with people who are intentionally flirtatious in their dress habits, but that is my problem, not theirs.
Don’t get me wrong though. While I recognize that the real threat increases from any potential assailant, when that assailant is able to hide weapons or ordinance, I don’t think this is sufficient reason to tell women how to dress. In a high security situation, there are precautions which may be taken using technology and good old canine sniffers and body searches. I believe that women everywhere should be able to dress however they want to. I object to efforts to tell them what to wear. For my own moral equilibrium, I prefer not to be confronted with people who are intentionally flirtatious in their dress habits, but that is my problem, not theirs.
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Peepers
Guest
I am not European. I lived in Switzerland for a few years as a kid. In college I worked for a French company doing part time work in the kitchen. I was taught the French language from an early age by a native speaker of French. My understanding of French attitudes and culture may be better than average, but is very limited. Having made my disclaimer, I will also say that my understanding of French culture is that the attitude is very much that other cultures should surrender their own to that of France, if they want to live in France. This may have a lot to do with the law about dress in France.
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