A
awalt
Guest
Look at the web sites of the organizations I posted which condemn terrorism - many have the ACTIONS they have taken to combat terrorism.
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S
Scottgun
Guest
Ok, but that is not lying, it’s arguing a point and others are disputing it. In other words, it’s just plain old debate. X person says something and quotes a source to back it up. Y person says hey wait a minute, this source is biased. X person can either concede that point, or continue to dispute it if he thinks the facts are facts no matter the source. I agree with you that sweeping generalizations are usually bad arguments, but not necessarily in the sense that there is a difference between saying all muslims support violence and saying that the doctrine of subjugation of all people to Islam through virtually any means is at least there in principle.Read the posts by Booklover and rrp. Both have been trying to justify their anti-muslim arguments by quoting from people that have an axe to grind against muslims and anti-muslim websites. It isn’t a mistake on their part as more of a deliberate act to convince others to think the same i.e. negatively about all muslims.
I don’t think Islam or the muslim community is beyond criticism, but I don’t it is fair to blame an entire community for the actions of a minority of muslims. I posted the anti-catholic bit to make a point that reading off websites that spread hate against a whole group of people is wrong.
A
awalt
Guest
Actually, being Catholic, I am no expert on Islam, but I think this is also a generalization based on people’s interpretation from what I have read and tried to understand.the doctrine of subjugation of all people to Islam through virtually any means is at least there in principle.
From what I have read, the Arabic word Jihad has a root verb: jahada, which in Arabic means exerting maximum efforts or striving. The theological connotation is striving for betterment. The other meanings are: endeavor, strain, exertion, diligence, fighting to defend one’s life, land and religion.
Jihad should not be confused with the term ‘Holy War"; the latter does not exist in Islamic terminology. There is no mention of a “holy war” in either the Quran or the Hadith (teachings of Prophet Muhammad) which are the primary sources of Islamic teachings. In fact the term holy war was introduced by the Crusades in their fighting against the Muslims to recaptured Jerusalem and the sacred “Holy Land” (1095-1291 AD).
So could someone use what is in the Quran to justify a terrorist-based Jihad? It seems so to me - but that’s an extremist terrorist position. Again, I think you have to look at the many organizations that do not support this view in either their thoughts or ACTIONS as some level of credible point to consider.
Isn’t this so like what happened in the US in 1941 when we locked up many American-Japanese in California after the bombing of Pearl Harbor… fear and uncertainty can bring out the worst in people, it’s part of the human condition. It’s a shame, but no religion or ethnicity has a monopoly on this behavior to be sure.
A
awalt
Guest
There are SO MANY sites that promote the fact that the non-extremist Islamic population is ready willing and helping to fight terrorism, I can’t believe I never researched that before I formed opinions. Many are from very credible American sources, (credible unless of course one’s mind is made up).
Here is a nice blurb that emphasizes we are not using them to help this effort as much as we should:
Here is a nice blurb that emphasizes we are not using them to help this effort as much as we should:
This is taken from The Heritage Foundation, a research and educaitonal institution who says this about “where they stand”:U.S. public diplomacy should accept and use another line of argument: moderate Islamic leaders’ condemnations of terror. M. Shameem Ahsan, Minister and Charge d’Affaires of Bangladesh was one of the first in the United Nations after 9/11 to express sadness over the carnage which had killed civilians from 60 countries—including his own.[17] American officials speaking to foreign audiences should better note such heartfelt declarations by foreign statesmen about the rank inhumanity of terrorism, which makes calculated use of the agony of innocents to score political points. Occasional newspaper ads by public-minded Islamic institutes or clerics do make this point, along with rare publications by the Department of State.[18] Such efforts are sound, but their frequency and volume must be doubled and then redoubled. Rhetoric, Aristotle wrote, requires that the audience trust the speaker. In the present struggle with evil, the U.S. government’s voice has become somewhat predictable. Meanwhile, gentlemanly foreign voices—which the Muslim world could trust—are being lost in the din of zealous minorities with bullhorns. U.S. and allied public diplomacy should help amplify the voices of the virtuous, including moderate imams, sober Arab politicians, thoughtful Middle Eastern academics, and clear-eyed American Muslim leaders.
Wikipedia says this about them, which if true certainly paints them as an unlikely pro-Islamic apologist:The Heritage Foundation is committed to building an America where freedom, opportunity, prosperity and civil society flourish.
It’s all over the internet, credible agencies supporting a picture that extremists are exactly that - extremists.Heritage Foundation is one of the most prominent conservative think tanks in the United States.[1] Founded in 1973, it is based in Washington, D.C., in the United States. Heritage’s stated mission is to “formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense.”[2]
P
porkscratchings
Guest
If this is merely arguing the point - why did the OP resort to personal attacks on my level of education - which is surely irrelevant to the debate? Isn’t it like saying ’ well u would say that because u r black’ in response to criticism of racism in the other person’s argument. I never accused anyone of lying - just presenting a view that is solely negative.Ok, but that is not lying, it’s arguing a point and others are disputing it. In other words, it’s just plain old debate. X person says something and quotes a source to back it up. Y person says hey wait a minute, this source is biased. X person can either concede that point, or continue to dispute it if he thinks the facts are facts no matter the source. I agree with you that sweeping generalizations are usually bad arguments, but not necessarily in the sense that there is a difference between saying all muslims support violence and saying that the doctrine of subjugation of all people to Islam through virtually any means is at least there in principle.
RE: doctrine of subjugation of all people to Islam. U’ll find that such a doctrine is not alien to Christianity.
In the parable of the wedding feast (Luke 14:23) ‘And the master said to the servant, `Go out to the highways and hedges, and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled’ - was taken by the early Christians to justify forced conversions. Augustine himself approved of this intepretation of the text. Is that not the subjugation of all peoples to Christianity in principle. And in practice when Christianity became the state religion - where did all the pagans in Europe, the Americas, and Africa go after Christians came to their lands?
The attitude that the whole world should be Christian is accepted in virtually every branch of Christianity. The door to door preachers are not from any other group other than various flavours of Christianity.
A
awalt
Guest
This is a cool article - here is point #7 about how to talk about the war on terrorism, or more eloquently:
Americans hear conflicting messages about how to think and talk about terrorism. As a result, the message of freedom and justice is often muted or muddled. Americans can do better. There are core ideas that should serve as a taproot for a consensus on how to understand and describe the enemy— and ultimately how to defeat them. Specifically, we should:
(point 7) –
Americans hear conflicting messages about how to think and talk about terrorism. As a result, the message of freedom and justice is often muted or muddled. Americans can do better. There are core ideas that should serve as a taproot for a consensus on how to understand and describe the enemy— and ultimately how to defeat them. Specifically, we should:
(point 7) –
Avoid religious terminology that terrorists use to justify their actions. Terrorists use religious terminology to legitimize their inexcusable acts. For instance, they use the word “jihad,” which is derived from the Arabic word jehada and literally means “to strive,” to justify what they claim is a “holy war.” Using “jihad” or any other religious term to describe terrorists and their actions only helps to legitimize an ideology that the war on terrorism seeks to defeat. Terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda advocate a totalitarian Islamic ideology that manipulates religious words and ideas but does not represent traditional Islam. Many terrorists have never received legitimate religious educations.
M
meedo
Guest
''Contributing to this frenzy of creating a culture of fear, CNN ran a caption of “Supporting Terror?” at the bottom of the screen when the moderator was interviewing three young Muslims about the poll. It is worth mentioning that according to a WorldPublicOpinion.org poll, conducted in December 2006, more than half of the American public (51 percent) justified “bombing and other types of attacks intentionally aimed at civilians” (5 percent often, 19 percent sometimes and 27 percent rarely). Less than half of the American public (46 percent) was of the view that it can never be justified.
However, the American public support for ‘bombing intentionally at civilians’ never made headlines in our media but the Muslim youth’s opinion did. With this type of contrast coverage, it is much easier to understand why the majority (57 percent) of Muslim Americans in the Pew study consider the coverage of Muslims and Islam in the mainstream American media as unfair. (MAPS survey has 76 percent saying the portrayal is not fair).
‘’
blogs.georgetown.edu/?id=25221
Very interesting prespective
However, the American public support for ‘bombing intentionally at civilians’ never made headlines in our media but the Muslim youth’s opinion did. With this type of contrast coverage, it is much easier to understand why the majority (57 percent) of Muslim Americans in the Pew study consider the coverage of Muslims and Islam in the mainstream American media as unfair. (MAPS survey has 76 percent saying the portrayal is not fair).
‘’
blogs.georgetown.edu/?id=25221
Very interesting prespective
E
exoflare
Guest
No doubt they are considered “martyrs” by those hijackers too. In their minds they were doing those Muslims a big favor, supposedly giving their lives for God’s cause.The terrorists who attacked the twin towers killed many muslims as well.
E
exoflare
Guest
That verse and others were from the time Mohammed hadn’t gained much political or military power yet. They are simply abrogated by the later, more violent, verses that directly contradict them.Pew funded the first ever nationwide American Muslim Poll, through Zogby International in 2001 called MAPS (Muslims in American Public Square). The Chairman of MAPS has analyzed this last Pew survey here.
Finally to awalt, here is what the Quran says about Christians who seek true knowledge:
" … nearest among them (non Muslims) in love to the Believers (Muslims) wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: Because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant." (5:85)
A
awalt
Guest
I found another good article, US Foreign Policy Interests and Human Rights in Central Asia. The author makes a relevant point or two germane to this discussion:
According to human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, the national commission on human rights, opposition media, and activists both in the respective countries and in exile, as well as the eyewitness accounts of Western experts, the Central Asian governments generally attempt to paint all opposition with one brush – that of international terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism.
The existence of the Islamic threat in Central Asia is undeniable. However, it is important to distinguish between militant Islamic radicals, moderate Islamic activists, clerics and politicians, and secular, Westernized human rights activists. By persecuting the two latter categories, the ruling regimes tend to isolate themselves and increase the possibilities of social upheavals which could result in the deposition of these regimes in the future.
S
Special_Ed
Guest
Anybobdy who believes Islam is a peaceful loving religion is deceived. A sound bite or two condemning Islamic jihadist doesn’t reflect the true heart of Islam. There are millions of Islamic radicals worldwide and jihadism is driven by the Imams, clerics, etc.and the Koran itself. Every place on earth where there is war, civil war, genocide, suicide bombers, assasinations, beheadings, honor killings, the blowing up of mosque by suicide bombers, the degredation of women, Christians and Jews, …and so on and so on…not to mention the American Hiroshima where jihadist want to kill 5 million Americans and want 2 million of them to be children…All of it is cause by the hands of Muslim’s.
All I can say is that I believe Islam will authenticate itself as the religion of the beasts’ sometime around the November election.
And I also believe they will commit horrific attacks at the China Olympics.
Too many christians have pity on peacefull Muslim’s. Why sympathize with them when it is their religion, their leaders, and their books that support jihad and who drive these radicals?
America will soon wake up to the true Islam and should ban Islam from America after the next attack which will be even more of an abomination and far outdo Sept 11.
I want to thank booklover and the others who stand for the truth on this Issue.
Islam is an evil religion and Muslim’s are urged to “get out of her”.
This is what is said about Islam in Revelation 18 and christians should stand against her…
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great (Islam) is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
**Reward her even as she rewarded you, **and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
SE
All I can say is that I believe Islam will authenticate itself as the religion of the beasts’ sometime around the November election.
And I also believe they will commit horrific attacks at the China Olympics.
Too many christians have pity on peacefull Muslim’s. Why sympathize with them when it is their religion, their leaders, and their books that support jihad and who drive these radicals?
America will soon wake up to the true Islam and should ban Islam from America after the next attack which will be even more of an abomination and far outdo Sept 11.
I want to thank booklover and the others who stand for the truth on this Issue.
Islam is an evil religion and Muslim’s are urged to “get out of her”.
This is what is said about Islam in Revelation 18 and christians should stand against her…
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great (Islam) is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
**Reward her even as she rewarded you, **and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
SE
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
In two days, I could create as many organizations as the OP cited. I could call them Muslim or Christian or Zoroastrian or Satanic or anything I wanted, and I could make them all look real.
If one looks at the ongoing flight of Christians from every Muslim land; if one looks at the Islamic plots uncovered in the West; if one looks at the way the Islamic people in Muslim countries react when terrorists do this or that, it’s hard to believe in Islamic peacefulness. Where are the famous Muslims; the ones of stature, who go on television and condemn Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood and the rest? How many of them does one see condemning Islamic violence and telling the Muslim world that the suicide bombers are in hell, to be followed by all jihadists? And then the polls. A person can argue with any poll, but one ignores them at his peril.
When the War against Islamic Terror is won, I imagine a lot of Muslims will be telling us how peaceful they are. And at that point, I will be inclined to believe them.
If one looks at the ongoing flight of Christians from every Muslim land; if one looks at the Islamic plots uncovered in the West; if one looks at the way the Islamic people in Muslim countries react when terrorists do this or that, it’s hard to believe in Islamic peacefulness. Where are the famous Muslims; the ones of stature, who go on television and condemn Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood and the rest? How many of them does one see condemning Islamic violence and telling the Muslim world that the suicide bombers are in hell, to be followed by all jihadists? And then the polls. A person can argue with any poll, but one ignores them at his peril.
When the War against Islamic Terror is won, I imagine a lot of Muslims will be telling us how peaceful they are. And at that point, I will be inclined to believe them.
S
Special_Ed
Guest
Maybe this will help some of you.
Sorry, the link won’t work due to a three letter word.
A COMPARISON BETWEEN
MUHAMMED AND JESUS CHRIST
By George Zeller and Steve Van Nattan
Mohammed was the prophet of war;
Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).
Mohammed’s disciples killed for the faith;
Christ’s disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Timothy 4:7).
Mohammed promoted persecution against the “infidels”;
Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).
Mohammed was the taker of life;
Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).
Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands;
Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).
Mohammed’s method was COMPULSION;
Christ’s aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).
Mohammed practiced FORCE;
Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35).
Mohammed was a WARRIOR;
Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword;
Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Mohammed said to the masses, “Convert or die!”;
Christ said, “Believe and live!” (John 6:47; 11:25-26).
Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Romans 3:15-17);
Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).
Mohammed preached “Death to the infidels!”;
Christ prayed “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).
Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels;
Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary’s cross (Colossians 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).
Mohammed constrained people by conquest;
Christ constrained people by love (2 Corinthians 5:14).
Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god;
Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, “Blessed are the peacemakers” (Matthew 5:9).
Modern day disciples of Mohammed respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets;
Modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were “Christians” in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).
**Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; **
Many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Romans 12:17-21).
Muhammed said the Koran is authoritative only in Arabic, and only in his dialect;
The Bible is authoritative in many languages around the world, for God knows all things and can inspire His Word in more than one language.
Muhammed hated music;
Jesus and His disciples sang hymns, and the Apostle commanded the Lord’s Church to sing. (Matthew 26:30, Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16)
Muhammed allowed that a Mullah, Imam, or Mufti of Islam can be a terrorist and moral animal like Osama bin Laden;
The Bible requires that a leader in the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ must be above reproach, and when this is not true, Christians demand such a fallen leader be removed from leadership. (1 Timothy 3:1-7, 5:19-20)
Sorry, the link won’t work due to a three letter word.
A COMPARISON BETWEEN
MUHAMMED AND JESUS CHRIST
By George Zeller and Steve Van Nattan
Mohammed was the prophet of war;
Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7).
Mohammed’s disciples killed for the faith;
Christ’s disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2; 2 Timothy 4:7).
Mohammed promoted persecution against the “infidels”;
Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1:13-15).
Mohammed was the taker of life;
Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28).
Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands;
Christ murdered none but saved many (compare John 12:48).
Mohammed’s method was COMPULSION;
Christ’s aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19).
Mohammed practiced FORCE;
Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35).
Mohammed was a WARRIOR;
Christ is a DELIVERER (Col. 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:10).
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword;
Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Mohammed said to the masses, “Convert or die!”;
Christ said, “Believe and live!” (John 6:47; 11:25-26).
Mohammed was swift to shed blood (Romans 3:15-17);
Christ shed His own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7).
Mohammed preached “Death to the infidels!”;
Christ prayed “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).
Mohammed declared a holy war (Jihad) against infidels;
Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary’s cross (Colossians 2:14-15) and His followers share in that victory (John 16:33).
Mohammed constrained people by conquest;
Christ constrained people by love (2 Corinthians 5:14).
Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god;
Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said, “Blessed are the peacemakers” (Matthew 5:9).
Modern day disciples of Mohammed respond to the terrorist attacks by cheering in the streets;
Modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were “Christians” in name only (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.).
**Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; **
Many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their Founder (Romans 12:17-21).
Muhammed said the Koran is authoritative only in Arabic, and only in his dialect;
The Bible is authoritative in many languages around the world, for God knows all things and can inspire His Word in more than one language.
Muhammed hated music;
Jesus and His disciples sang hymns, and the Apostle commanded the Lord’s Church to sing. (Matthew 26:30, Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16)
Muhammed allowed that a Mullah, Imam, or Mufti of Islam can be a terrorist and moral animal like Osama bin Laden;
The Bible requires that a leader in the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ must be above reproach, and when this is not true, Christians demand such a fallen leader be removed from leadership. (1 Timothy 3:1-7, 5:19-20)
S
Special_Ed
Guest
Islam calls on its followers to observe Five Pillars, while all other aspects of life can be vulgar and not affect the Muslim’s prospects in Paradise.
The Bible calls on the Christian to submit to the total change of his life by the Spirit of God-- NO area of life and thought is the choice of the follower. (Romans 12:1-2)
The Muslim looks forward to eternity in Paradise where there will be virgins who are used for eternal perpetual copulation.
The Bible believing Christian looks forward to being with Jesus Christ and is delighted with that. (2 Corinthians 5:8)
Muhammed said the witness of a woman was half the value of the witness of a man; and Muhammed said a women goes to Paradise because she satisfies her husband sexually;
The Bible teaches that a husband is to love his wife and be willing to die for her. (Ephesians 5:25)
Mohammed called upon his servants to fight;
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . .but now is My kingdom not from here” (John 18:36)
Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p. 369);
Christ ordered that the gospel be preached “to the Jew first” (Romans 1:16).
The Koran says, “Fight in the cause of Allah” (Qu’ran 2.244);
The Bible says, “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” and “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal” (Ephesians 6:12; 2 Corinthians 10:4).
The Koran says, “Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them” (Qu’ran 9.5);
Christ said, “Preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15).
The Koran says, “I will inspire terror into the hearts of unbelievers” (Qu’ran 8.12);
God inspires His terror into the hearts of believers (Isaiah 8:13).
The Koran (Qu’ran) is a terrorist manual which condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam;
T he Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Romans 10:15).
Mohammed’s Mission was to conquer the world for Allah;
Christ’s mission was to conquer sin’s penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18).
Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet;
Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matthew 24:11).
Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah;
Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9).
Islam is geocentric, that is, the whole universe is centered on the Kaaba in the Grand mosque in Mecca in Arabia, and all Muslims pray facing that direction;
Jesus Christ is the center of all Christian worship and fellowship, for He is “in the midst” where his saints meet anywhere on earth. (Matthew 18:20, John 4:22-23)
Mohammed’s Tomb: OCCUPIED!
Christ’s tomb: EMPTY!
Islam must be received, or you can be killed for rejecting it:
The Faith offered by Jesus Christ is for “whosoever will” to receive, and all men are permitted to reject it. (Revelation 22:17, John 3:16)
Those who leave Islam are killed in most Islamic nations;
Those who leave the true Church of Jesus Christ are allowed to do so with no revenge.
Now, is a Muslim submitted to Allah and Islam because he loves Allah?
NO!
He dare not leave Islam, and he is loyal purely out of fear.
The true Bible believer is loyal to Jesus Christ purely out of love.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.
This concept is 100% alien to Islam-- There is no love in Islam-- Only fear and hate.
The Bible calls on the Christian to submit to the total change of his life by the Spirit of God-- NO area of life and thought is the choice of the follower. (Romans 12:1-2)
The Muslim looks forward to eternity in Paradise where there will be virgins who are used for eternal perpetual copulation.
The Bible believing Christian looks forward to being with Jesus Christ and is delighted with that. (2 Corinthians 5:8)
Muhammed said the witness of a woman was half the value of the witness of a man; and Muhammed said a women goes to Paradise because she satisfies her husband sexually;
The Bible teaches that a husband is to love his wife and be willing to die for her. (Ephesians 5:25)
Mohammed called upon his servants to fight;
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world; if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight . . .but now is My kingdom not from here” (John 18:36)
Mohammed ordered death to the Jews (see A.Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, Oxford University Press [1975], p. 369);
Christ ordered that the gospel be preached “to the Jew first” (Romans 1:16).
The Koran says, “Fight in the cause of Allah” (Qu’ran 2.244);
The Bible says, “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” and “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal” (Ephesians 6:12; 2 Corinthians 10:4).
The Koran says, “Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them” (Qu’ran 9.5);
Christ said, “Preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15).
The Koran says, “I will inspire terror into the hearts of unbelievers” (Qu’ran 8.12);
God inspires His terror into the hearts of believers (Isaiah 8:13).
The Koran (Qu’ran) is a terrorist manual which condones fighting, conflict, terror, slaughter, and genocide against those who do not accept Islam;
T he Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Romans 10:15).
Mohammed’s Mission was to conquer the world for Allah;
Christ’s mission was to conquer sin’s penalty and power by substitutionary atonement (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 3:18).
Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet;
Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matthew 24:11).
Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah;
Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9).
Islam is geocentric, that is, the whole universe is centered on the Kaaba in the Grand mosque in Mecca in Arabia, and all Muslims pray facing that direction;
Jesus Christ is the center of all Christian worship and fellowship, for He is “in the midst” where his saints meet anywhere on earth. (Matthew 18:20, John 4:22-23)
Mohammed’s Tomb: OCCUPIED!
Christ’s tomb: EMPTY!
Islam must be received, or you can be killed for rejecting it:
The Faith offered by Jesus Christ is for “whosoever will” to receive, and all men are permitted to reject it. (Revelation 22:17, John 3:16)
Those who leave Islam are killed in most Islamic nations;
Those who leave the true Church of Jesus Christ are allowed to do so with no revenge.
Now, is a Muslim submitted to Allah and Islam because he loves Allah?
NO!
He dare not leave Islam, and he is loyal purely out of fear.
The true Bible believer is loyal to Jesus Christ purely out of love.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.
This concept is 100% alien to Islam-- There is no love in Islam-- Only fear and hate.
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
Assalamu Alalikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (to my Muslim brothers and sister)
I’m new hello everyone!
Lets look at Christian Terrorist like the N.L.F.T
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura#History.2C_Funding_and_Church_Support
National Liberation Front of Tripura
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) was formed in December 1989 for the purpose of seceding from India in order to create an independent state of Tripura. The NLFT has conducted a systematic and violent campaign against Bengalis, Hindus, and parts of the tribal population to secede from India. It was declared as an unlawful organization under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act in 1997. Due to their subversive and terrorist activities, they were declared by the Government of India as a terrorist organization under the Prevention of Terrorism
History, Funding and Church Support
The Government of the state of Tripura has uncovered evidence to support the assertion that the Baptist Church of Tripura has been funding the terrorists. Hindu Nationalists allege that the Church has been forcing local tribals to convert to Christianity [2].
The Baptist Church of Tripura was initially set up by missionaries from New Zealand in the 1940s. Despite their efforts, even until the 1980s, only a few thousand people in Tripura had converted to Christianity. In the aftermath of one of the worst ethnic riots, the NLFT was born in 1989—allegedly with the help of the Baptist Church. Since then, the NLFT has been advancing its cause through armed rebellion.
Activities
Indian Government officials have accused the Baptist Church of Tripura of supporting this violent campaign by providing funding and arms for the group. In April of 2000, Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was caught providing 50 gelatine sticks, 5 kilograms of potassium and 2 kilograms of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives to the group. Halam later confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years.
In October 2000, the NLFT ordered all Hindus to cease celebration of Durga Puja [3]. In 2001, there were 826 reported terrorist attacks in Tripura, in which 405 people lost their lives and 481 kidnappings were made by the NLFT and related organizations such as the Christian All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTP) [4].
In another incident in August 2003, police arrested the secretary of a Baptist Christian Missionary church in North Tripura District who was in possession of five kg of potassium, one kg sulphur, few gelatin sticks and 45 gm of high explosive materials [5].
Recent investigations, as well as confessions from surrendered members, have revealed that the NLFT have been making and selling pornography to finance their activities. This includes DVDs of pornographic films made by the group with tribal men and women kidnapped and forced to participate in sex acts while being filmed. The movies are dubbed into various languages and sold illegally throughout the region for a profit. The women have also been sexually abused by NLFT members [6]
I’m new hello everyone!
Lets look at Christian Terrorist like the N.L.F.T
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_of_Tripura#History.2C_Funding_and_Church_Support
National Liberation Front of Tripura
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) was formed in December 1989 for the purpose of seceding from India in order to create an independent state of Tripura. The NLFT has conducted a systematic and violent campaign against Bengalis, Hindus, and parts of the tribal population to secede from India. It was declared as an unlawful organization under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act in 1997. Due to their subversive and terrorist activities, they were declared by the Government of India as a terrorist organization under the Prevention of Terrorism
History, Funding and Church Support
The Government of the state of Tripura has uncovered evidence to support the assertion that the Baptist Church of Tripura has been funding the terrorists. Hindu Nationalists allege that the Church has been forcing local tribals to convert to Christianity [2].
The Baptist Church of Tripura was initially set up by missionaries from New Zealand in the 1940s. Despite their efforts, even until the 1980s, only a few thousand people in Tripura had converted to Christianity. In the aftermath of one of the worst ethnic riots, the NLFT was born in 1989—allegedly with the help of the Baptist Church. Since then, the NLFT has been advancing its cause through armed rebellion.
Activities
Indian Government officials have accused the Baptist Church of Tripura of supporting this violent campaign by providing funding and arms for the group. In April of 2000, Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was caught providing 50 gelatine sticks, 5 kilograms of potassium and 2 kilograms of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives to the group. Halam later confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years.
In October 2000, the NLFT ordered all Hindus to cease celebration of Durga Puja [3]. In 2001, there were 826 reported terrorist attacks in Tripura, in which 405 people lost their lives and 481 kidnappings were made by the NLFT and related organizations such as the Christian All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTP) [4].
In another incident in August 2003, police arrested the secretary of a Baptist Christian Missionary church in North Tripura District who was in possession of five kg of potassium, one kg sulphur, few gelatin sticks and 45 gm of high explosive materials [5].
Recent investigations, as well as confessions from surrendered members, have revealed that the NLFT have been making and selling pornography to finance their activities. This includes DVDs of pornographic films made by the group with tribal men and women kidnapped and forced to participate in sex acts while being filmed. The movies are dubbed into various languages and sold illegally throughout the region for a profit. The women have also been sexually abused by NLFT members [6]
A
awalt
Guest
It’s really sad that you can just brush off maybe 100 organizations and just say they are all made up. And to say “Islam will attack at the Chinese Olympics” is like saying a German Catholic started World War II.
You also ignore the quotes from our President, our Pope, and other leaders who have been quite clear that the terrorists are a minority and that moderate Islamic leaders and people exist and need to be aided as we share the same fight. To indict the entire Islamic worship community based on the acts of the terrorists is no different than indicting all Japanese Americans in WW II as spies, to indict all German Jews in WW II as insurgents, and to indict all Tutsis as traitors justifying genocide. All I can say is it is bigoted, prejudicial behavior, and those and every other case of prejudice against an entire religious or ethnic group in history has proven to be a wrongful and hateful act. How would you like to be indicted as guilty of acts because you share beliefs with someone who is a terrorist?
Here’s another article for you, although this kind of prejudice prevents people from reading and seeking the truth - Radical Islam vs. Islam. There is much of value in this article, but here is a snippet:
You also ignore the quotes from our President, our Pope, and other leaders who have been quite clear that the terrorists are a minority and that moderate Islamic leaders and people exist and need to be aided as we share the same fight. To indict the entire Islamic worship community based on the acts of the terrorists is no different than indicting all Japanese Americans in WW II as spies, to indict all German Jews in WW II as insurgents, and to indict all Tutsis as traitors justifying genocide. All I can say is it is bigoted, prejudicial behavior, and those and every other case of prejudice against an entire religious or ethnic group in history has proven to be a wrongful and hateful act. How would you like to be indicted as guilty of acts because you share beliefs with someone who is a terrorist?
Here’s another article for you, although this kind of prejudice prevents people from reading and seeking the truth - Radical Islam vs. Islam. There is much of value in this article, but here is a snippet:
In common with many Islamic radicals, bin Laden believes that the Islamic world has fallen into perfidy and apostasy. He makes civil war on Islam as much as he makes international conflict with the United States.
He targets moderate Islamic leaders like Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, former Pakistani President Benizir Bhutto, and Jordan King (then Prince) Abdullah. He has no respect for the Saudi government because it permits the stationing of Western troops, contrary to his view of the ancient Shari’a’s prohibition of non-Muslims living on the holy soil of Arabia.
Bin Laden and other Islamic radicals claim they represent ancient Islam. It is true that they do represent one tradition in Islam, but it is a tradition that Islam early on rejected as opposed to the universal message of its Prophet.
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
If
Terrorism - The Correct Islamic Position on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings
al-athariyyah.com/correct_pos.html
Scroll down to down
fatwa-online.com/
Scrooll down to Islam and Terrorism
salafipublications.com/sps/
troid.org/comprehensive-issues/terrorism-and-extremism/index.php
I could put up a million more just ask for more and I will
Right hereone looks at the ongoing flight of Christians from every Muslim land; if one looks at the Islamic plots uncovered in the West; if one looks at the way the Islamic people in Muslim countries react when terrorists do this or that, it’s hard to believe in Islamic peacefulness. Where are the famous Muslims; the ones of stature, who go on television and condemn Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood and the rest? How many of them does one see condemning Islamic violence and telling the Muslim world that the suicide bombers are in hell
Terrorism - The Correct Islamic Position on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings
al-athariyyah.com/correct_pos.html
Scroll down to down
fatwa-online.com/
Scrooll down to Islam and Terrorism
salafipublications.com/sps/
troid.org/comprehensive-issues/terrorism-and-extremism/index.php
I could put up a million more just ask for more and I will
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
fatwaislam.com/fis/index.cfm?scn=fd&ID=526
Question:
What is the ruling regarding acts of jihaad by means of suicide, such as attaching explosives to a car and storming the enemy, whereby he knows without a doubt that he shall die as a result of this action?
Answer:
Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has killed himself (committed suicide), and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).
“Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever” [Bukhaaree (5778) and Muslim (109 and 110)].
However, one who is ignorant and does not know, and assumes his action was good and pleasing to Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala), then we hope Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala) forgives him for that which he did out of (ignorant) ijtihaad, even though I do not find any excuse for him in the present day. This is because this type of suicide is well known and widespread amongst the people, so it is upon the person to ask the people of knowledge (scholars) regarding it, until the right guidance for him is differentiated from the error.
And from that which is surprising, is that these people kill themselves despite Allaah having fordbidden this, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala) says:
{And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you}, [Soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 29].
And many amongst them do not desire anything except revenge of the enemy, by whatever means, be it halaal or haraam. So they only want to satisfy their thirst for revenge.
We ask Allaah to bless us with foresight in His Deen and action(s) which please Him, indeed He is all Powerful over all things.
Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu’aalij Waaqi’unaa al-Aleem - Page 11
Suicide in Islaam
Question:
What is the ruling regarding suicide in Islaam?
Answer:
Suicide is when a person kills himself intentionally by whatever means. This is haraam and regarded as amongst the major sins, and likewise included in the general statement of Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala):
{And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein, and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him}, [Soorah an-Nisaa, Aayah 93].
And it is established from the Sunnah on the authority of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) who said:
“Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever”, [Bukhaaree (5778) and Muslim (109 and 110)].
In reality, the one who commits suicide, generally does so because of his desperate situation, either as a direct result of an act of Allaah or a human being. So you find him unable to cope with that which has afflicted him, and in actual fact he is like one who is calling for help from the scorching heat of the fire. So he has progressed from that which was tough (bad) to that which is worse. And if he was patient, then Allaah would have assisted him in dealing with the difficulty.
Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu’aalij Waaqi’unaa al-Aleem - Page 120
Question:
What is the ruling regarding acts of jihaad by means of suicide, such as attaching explosives to a car and storming the enemy, whereby he knows without a doubt that he shall die as a result of this action?
Answer:
Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has killed himself (committed suicide), and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam).
“Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever” [Bukhaaree (5778) and Muslim (109 and 110)].
However, one who is ignorant and does not know, and assumes his action was good and pleasing to Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala), then we hope Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala) forgives him for that which he did out of (ignorant) ijtihaad, even though I do not find any excuse for him in the present day. This is because this type of suicide is well known and widespread amongst the people, so it is upon the person to ask the people of knowledge (scholars) regarding it, until the right guidance for him is differentiated from the error.
And from that which is surprising, is that these people kill themselves despite Allaah having fordbidden this, as He (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala) says:
{And do not kill yourselves. Surely, Allaah is Most Merciful to you}, [Soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 29].
And many amongst them do not desire anything except revenge of the enemy, by whatever means, be it halaal or haraam. So they only want to satisfy their thirst for revenge.
We ask Allaah to bless us with foresight in His Deen and action(s) which please Him, indeed He is all Powerful over all things.
Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu’aalij Waaqi’unaa al-Aleem - Page 11
Suicide in Islaam
Question:
What is the ruling regarding suicide in Islaam?
Answer:
Suicide is when a person kills himself intentionally by whatever means. This is haraam and regarded as amongst the major sins, and likewise included in the general statement of Allaah (Subhaanahu wa Ta’aala):
{And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein, and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him}, [Soorah an-Nisaa, Aayah 93].
And it is established from the Sunnah on the authority of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) who said:
“Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever”, [Bukhaaree (5778) and Muslim (109 and 110)].
In reality, the one who commits suicide, generally does so because of his desperate situation, either as a direct result of an act of Allaah or a human being. So you find him unable to cope with that which has afflicted him, and in actual fact he is like one who is calling for help from the scorching heat of the fire. So he has progressed from that which was tough (bad) to that which is worse. And if he was patient, then Allaah would have assisted him in dealing with the difficulty.
Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen
Kayfa Nu’aalij Waaqi’unaa al-Aleem - Page 120
S
Special_Ed
Guest
The NLFT is a miniscule and trivial organization that has split up many times. Their goals and ambitions are,
“to establish an independent Tripura through an armed struggle following the liberation from Indian neo- colonialism and imperialism and furtherance of a distinct and independent identity”.
This is nothing like that of Islamic jihadist who want to convert the entire planet by abominable means to Islam… by the evil sword of the demonic false god called…Allah…
There is no comparison.
SE
“to establish an independent Tripura through an armed struggle following the liberation from Indian neo- colonialism and imperialism and furtherance of a distinct and independent identity”.
This is nothing like that of Islamic jihadist who want to convert the entire planet by abominable means to Islam… by the evil sword of the demonic false god called…Allah…
There is no comparison.
SE
S
Special_Ed
Guest
Abdul,
I looked at you fatwaislam link. this is my rebuttle.
More fatwa fibs
Posted: August 2, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
To considerable press fanfare, the Fiqh Council of North America issued a fatwa, denouncing terrorism. The religious edict decreed that “targeting civilians’ life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is forbidden, and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not martyrs.”
What religious authority does the FCNA possess? Does its authority supersede that of say, the imam of the Mosque of Mecca, Sheik Abd-al-Rahman al-Sudays? If so, does the fatwa extend to those the eminent (but unoriginal) imam dubbed “pigs and monkeys” (a synonym for Jews among many Islamic scholars)? This foremost Islamic authority had hateful – and hate-inspiring – words for Hindus and Christians as well. Is that all in the past now that the FCNA has spoken?
The Council on American-Islamic Relations participated in the canned performance. CAIR’s executive director promised that this was “the strongest statement that can be made by the Islamic community.” The Muslim Council of Britain made similar sounds after July 7. We know they were not exactly channeling the British “Islamic community,” of which 6 percent justified the murders, 24 percent sympathized with the murderers, and 14 percent would not rat them out. (Since surveyed subjects tend to give answers that depict them favorably, these results are likely overoptimistic).
And did that Council’s fatwa nullify the opinions of the mayor of London’s favorite “progressive” theologian, Yusuf al-Qaradawi? As Civitas’ David Conway recently reported, the mayor galvanized Qaradawi’s compendious knowledge to draw a sharp “moral distinction” between suicide-bombings against ordinary Londoners (not good) and those against ordinary Israelis (perfectly good).
And is CAIR qualified to preach peace? Not according to terrorism expert, Steven Emerson:
Officials of both groups [CAIR and the FCNA] have been linked to various terrorist organizations. The reigning chairman of the Fiqh Council [Taha Jaber Al-Alwani] is an unindicted co-conspirator in the case against Sami al-Arian, the alleged North American leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Al-Alwani has also funded Islamic Jihad front groups in Tampa.
To meet an FCNA trustee by the name of Abdurrahman Alamoudi, you’d have to visit a jail cell, where he’ll be ensconced for the next 23 years for illegal financial dealings with Libya and immigration fraud. He has also admitted to partaking in a plot to assassinate the Saudi crown prince, has voiced enthusiastic support for Hamas and Hezbollah, and has allegedly acted as a financier for al-Qaida.
Another Council member, Sheikh Muhammad al-Hanooti, maintained ties to Hamas, but has otherwise exercised remarkable restraint, merely calling for jihad against America, England and the Jews.
I looked at you fatwaislam link. this is my rebuttle.
More fatwa fibs
Posted: August 2, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
To considerable press fanfare, the Fiqh Council of North America issued a fatwa, denouncing terrorism. The religious edict decreed that “targeting civilians’ life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is forbidden, and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not martyrs.”
What religious authority does the FCNA possess? Does its authority supersede that of say, the imam of the Mosque of Mecca, Sheik Abd-al-Rahman al-Sudays? If so, does the fatwa extend to those the eminent (but unoriginal) imam dubbed “pigs and monkeys” (a synonym for Jews among many Islamic scholars)? This foremost Islamic authority had hateful – and hate-inspiring – words for Hindus and Christians as well. Is that all in the past now that the FCNA has spoken?
The Council on American-Islamic Relations participated in the canned performance. CAIR’s executive director promised that this was “the strongest statement that can be made by the Islamic community.” The Muslim Council of Britain made similar sounds after July 7. We know they were not exactly channeling the British “Islamic community,” of which 6 percent justified the murders, 24 percent sympathized with the murderers, and 14 percent would not rat them out. (Since surveyed subjects tend to give answers that depict them favorably, these results are likely overoptimistic).
And did that Council’s fatwa nullify the opinions of the mayor of London’s favorite “progressive” theologian, Yusuf al-Qaradawi? As Civitas’ David Conway recently reported, the mayor galvanized Qaradawi’s compendious knowledge to draw a sharp “moral distinction” between suicide-bombings against ordinary Londoners (not good) and those against ordinary Israelis (perfectly good).
And is CAIR qualified to preach peace? Not according to terrorism expert, Steven Emerson:
Officials of both groups [CAIR and the FCNA] have been linked to various terrorist organizations. The reigning chairman of the Fiqh Council [Taha Jaber Al-Alwani] is an unindicted co-conspirator in the case against Sami al-Arian, the alleged North American leader of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Al-Alwani has also funded Islamic Jihad front groups in Tampa.
To meet an FCNA trustee by the name of Abdurrahman Alamoudi, you’d have to visit a jail cell, where he’ll be ensconced for the next 23 years for illegal financial dealings with Libya and immigration fraud. He has also admitted to partaking in a plot to assassinate the Saudi crown prince, has voiced enthusiastic support for Hamas and Hezbollah, and has allegedly acted as a financier for al-Qaida.
Another Council member, Sheikh Muhammad al-Hanooti, maintained ties to Hamas, but has otherwise exercised remarkable restraint, merely calling for jihad against America, England and the Jews.
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