E
exoflare
Guest
Source?
Well, first it would help for you to explain just what you think constitutes an “ordinary” Muslim. Anyway no I never said that but thanks for putting words in my mouth.
- Status
E
exoflare
Guest
E
exoflare
Guest
In my experience, “Allah knows best” means “I should have an answer but I don’t”.
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
you must not have many experiences
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
the people here seem very hostile so i’m not sure how long i will be here.
A
Alexius
Guest
I’m sorry to hear that, but I’m not surprised…
The hostility toward Muslims on here is one in need of addressing and is unlike the attitude of Our Saviour. I am truly sorry.If you would like to address some of the beliefs of Islam, I’d love to discuss, so please open another thread. This one should be closed soon…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
A
awalt
Guest
Wonderfully stated. That is all I have ever tried to promote in this thread, maybe I have not done a good job in communicating it. We all condemn terrorism but many in the image of God are condemned and despised for what they believe. I have strong beliefs in Catholicism but I try every day to love everyone even more, and that includes people of all beliefs. It’s hard to do, look to Christ for an example.I’m sorry to hear that, but I’m not surprised…
If you would like to address some of the beliefs of Islam, I’d love to discuss, so please open another thread. This one should be closed soon…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
God bless all and Happy 2008.
A
awalt
Guest
This desire to create a Muslim empire is based on the delusion that modernity is a threat to Islam and the idea that the Muslim community has strayed from God and if they were to return to a strict interpretation of Islam that the problems in the Muslim world would be solved. It is this exact mentality spurned of paranoia, ignorance and fear that inspired and supported the Taliban and the creation of a medieval society in Afghanistan .
http://www.crescentlife.com/heal the world/moderate_muslim_view_of_islamic_terrorism.htm
Zawahiri cautions that moderate Islam is not true Islam and that the primary goal of Islam is to wage jihad against non-Muslims and establish a worldwide caliphate under the sharia, or Islamic principles of law. Anything less is considered antithetical to Islam and thereby constitutes apostasy.
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1867193/posts
I have read others, Bin Laden will only be supportive of non-extremist/terrorist Muslims if they conform to his will and rule.
M
meedo
Guest
which many were like you and awalt. I have been a regular poster but i slowed down because of some attitudes. There are many wonderful people ofcourse but i wouldnt put them more than 35% of people on this section of the forum.I’m sorry to hear that, but I’m not surprised…
If you would like to address some of the beliefs of Islam, I’d love to discuss, so please open another thread. This one should be closed soon…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
The whole issue is ironic because the very same attitude some people have against muslims here is directed by Protestants against catholics. I thought that would help people understand how misinformed pople can be about other faiths and people.
But i am always hopeful. Thank you for bieng here and showing the good side .
Have a happy new year ,
Meedo
P
porkscratchings
Guest
An ordinary muslim is just like an ordinary American - someone who lives an ordinary, sends his kids to school and has a job at the Post Office. These folks live in the US, too. So go and see them, visit their schools and mosques. The fact that u don’t do this, and probably don’t know any muslims to speak of, allows u to marinate in hate against a people u refuse to know and recognise as human beings with the ability to disagree with Osama and his ilk.
These muslims are alive and well - they do not need ‘sources’ to prove they exist. If u want to know where they live -u can find out easily.
When the UN, at the instigation of the US, refuse to recognise Palestine, did this area and its people somehow not exist?? I think not.
If u walk around with the view the most muslims are pro-terrorist and constantly ignore those muslims who condemn terrorism - then when I observe ‘Yet u consider the ordinary muslim to be friends of the terrorist’ this is NOT putting words in ur mouth, but calling a spade by its proper name.
Richard Dawkins, noted atheist, argues that religion should be abolished the grounds that all religions are filled with hate, oppression and warmongering. He cites examples of bad-behaviour in all religions to support his view that no religion is a good thing. So by his argument, there aren’t any ordinary Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus who live peaceful lives when in fact these folks constitute the majority of any belief system.
It is the minority of every belief (including atheism) that engage in terrorist activities and acts of intolerance to unbelievers. 1 billion catholics did not support the activities of the IRA in the UK, but a minority did. So it is unfair to blame all or most Catholics for the IRA bombing my neighbourhood.
If i were to take a leaf out of ur book - I’d ban all religion on the grounds that all or most believers support terrorist groups within their religion.
Do u think that’s fair?
.
L
lukewarm
Guest
Most Muslims may be sympathetic to the Palestinians and anti-Israel, this is what labels most Muslims are sympathetic to terrorists. But being anti-Israel and pro-palestinian doesn’t make one automatically a terrorist sympathizer. IMO you’re average Muslim is probablya passive supporter of organizations like the PLO or Hamas. Most probably don’t support Al Qaida because of its targeting of even Muslims, but a good fraction do. When you have a religion of one billion people even if it’s one half of one percent it’s still an enormous amount of people supporting radical Islam.
Growing up my entire family supported the IRA and despised the British, even my grandmother who was like a Saint would spit on the grave o a Brit. Anytime there was an act of violence by the IRA my grandfather would frame it on put it on the wall. His rationale was if Britain wasn’t stealing Irelands wealth, killing and raping their people over centuries they wouldn’t be getting bombed or attacked today. He felt it was their fault, they had no business in Ireland so they deserved anything they got. It’s easy to understand that perspective when it’s your people being oppressed. When you look at the state of Israel and its treatment of Palestine with thier puting up illegal communities, demolishing houses, etc… I can see why it would be very easy for an ordinary good Muslim person to become very angry at Israel and get caught up in at least passive support of terrorism.
Growing up my entire family supported the IRA and despised the British, even my grandmother who was like a Saint would spit on the grave o a Brit. Anytime there was an act of violence by the IRA my grandfather would frame it on put it on the wall. His rationale was if Britain wasn’t stealing Irelands wealth, killing and raping their people over centuries they wouldn’t be getting bombed or attacked today. He felt it was their fault, they had no business in Ireland so they deserved anything they got. It’s easy to understand that perspective when it’s your people being oppressed. When you look at the state of Israel and its treatment of Palestine with thier puting up illegal communities, demolishing houses, etc… I can see why it would be very easy for an ordinary good Muslim person to become very angry at Israel and get caught up in at least passive support of terrorism.
P
porkscratchings
Guest
I wanted to edit my prev post but couldn’t so here’s the edited version.
These muslims are alive and well. If u want to know where they live -u can find out easily.
If u walk around with the view the most muslims are pro-terrorist and constantly ignore those muslims who condemn terrorism - then when I observe ‘Yet u consider the ordinary muslim to be friends of the terrorist’ this is NOT putting words in ur mouth, but calling a spade by its proper name.
As for Bin Laden’s beliefs …He was expelled from Saudi because he plotted against that govt on the grounds it was unIslamic. He is Wahhabist. See this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabismfor info on Wahhabism:
and news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2333085.stm from which i get the passage :
It is the minority of every belief (including atheism) that engage in terrorist activities and acts of intolerance to unbelievers. 1 billion catholics did not support the activities of the IRA in the UK, but a minority did. So it is unfair to blame all or most Catholics for the IRA bombing my neighbourhood.
If i were to take a leaf out of ur book - I’d believe what Dawkins says and ban all religion on the grounds that all or most believers support terrorist groups within their religion.
Do u think that’s fair?
An ordinary muslim is just like an ordinary American - someone who lives an ordinary, sends his kids to school and has a job at the Post Office. These folks live in the US, too. So go and see them, visit their schools and mosques. The fact that u don’t do this, and probably don’t know any muslims to speak of, allows u to marinate in hate against a people u refuse to know and recognise as human beings with the ability to disagree with Osama and his ilk.
These muslims are alive and well. If u want to know where they live -u can find out easily.
If u walk around with the view the most muslims are pro-terrorist and constantly ignore those muslims who condemn terrorism - then when I observe ‘Yet u consider the ordinary muslim to be friends of the terrorist’ this is NOT putting words in ur mouth, but calling a spade by its proper name.
As for Bin Laden’s beliefs …He was expelled from Saudi because he plotted against that govt on the grounds it was unIslamic. He is Wahhabist. See this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabismfor info on Wahhabism:
Bali bombing killed both muslims and non muslims the terrorists wanted to replaced Indonesia’s muslim state with a Islamic state news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2499193.stm
and news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2333085.stm from which i get the passage :
Richard Dawkins, noted atheist, argues that religion should be abolished the grounds that all religions are filled with hate, oppression and warmongering. He cites examples of bad-behaviour in all religions to support his view that no religion is a good thing. So by his argument, there aren’t any ordinary Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus who live peaceful lives when in fact these folks constitute the majority of any belief system.
It is the minority of every belief (including atheism) that engage in terrorist activities and acts of intolerance to unbelievers. 1 billion catholics did not support the activities of the IRA in the UK, but a minority did. So it is unfair to blame all or most Catholics for the IRA bombing my neighbourhood.
If i were to take a leaf out of ur book - I’d believe what Dawkins says and ban all religion on the grounds that all or most believers support terrorist groups within their religion.
Do u think that’s fair?
A
Abdul_Ghafoor
Guest
Bin Laden is not a Salafi I know because I’m a Salafi he is a follower of Sayyid Qutb.
Here a link to the Wahhabi myth thewahhabimyth.com/
Here is a link to Salafi view (Islamic view) of terrorism
al-athariyyah.com/correct_pos.html
The terrorist attacks (9/11) that took place and what occurred of
general (mass) killing; this is not permissible and Islam does not allow it in any form whatsoever. Islam frees itself from this action
Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee
So what we hold is that those people who perform these suicide (bombings) have wrongfully committed suicide, and that this necessitates entry into the Hellfire, and Allah’s refuge is sought; and that this person is not a shahid (martyr)…"
Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al-'Uthaymeen
Indeed, my opinion is that he is regarded as one who has committed suicide, and as a result he shall be punished in Hell, for that which is authenticated on the authority of the Prophet (may Allah raise his rank and grant him peace), “Indeed, whoever (intentionally) kills himself, then certainly he will be punished in the Fire of Hell, wherein he shall dwell forever.”
Shaykh Muhammad Bin Saalih al-'Uthaymeen
So my advice to al-Masari, al-Faqih, Bin Laden, and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allah and to beware of His vengeance and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allah for what has preceded from them…"
Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
In response to Dawkins, I think the 20th century taught us what atheism can do for us. What’s the body count? 100 million? 200 million?
M
meedo
Guest
May God bless you for standing fior justice and truth.
M
meedo
Guest
May God bless you for putting yourself in other peoples shoes.
A
Alexius
Guest
I understand this all too well…
I once sympathized with the IRA felt that it was a God-send (call me what you will). I know it sounds crazy, but it seemed they were doing something noble and worthy of Catholic support. When you actually think about how you would feel if you lost a family member or loved one to a bombing or murder though, it really puts a different perspective in your mind. On top of that, this violence really hasn’t done much to further their cause. The British people hate them even more and they are the ones who need to be won over if independence is the goal. I think of the phrase echoed throughout the movie “The Gladiator,” “win the mob [essentially the enemy] and you’ll win your freedom.” It is both scary and sad how crafty the devil is in making murder and hate look noble…Just my opinion, of course…
Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Sorry to barge into this thread rather late. The OP quoted the above.
There must be a mistake. If this quote is right then there’ll be no Muslims now, because they’ll all be Christians. Islam does not believe in the Gospel. Period. The above statement is a lie.
P
planten
Guest
Good post by A G. But who will look after Maudoodi sahib and Syed Qutub sahib?? They had been preaching Jihaad since 1930 A.D. They taught the lesson of fighting with a sword for the sake of Islam… In fact, Maudoodi sahib taught that Islam was spread by sword. Was that a good thing?? We must look at our own people too to know what they are doing.
Recently, there was Khomaini sahib (in Iran) and more recently Mulla Umer sahib (with bin Laden) in Afghanistan. What did they do?? I am happy that you have taken a good stand in the light of your leadership. I am not for politics at all but I see things that are being done wrong and I hope that you will also be noting them. I hope you will not take ill feelings due to my post.
A
awalt
Guest
Actually you have jumped to a conclusion that is erroneous, albeit I don’t believe they believe in the Gospel WE as Catholics believe in. Here’s why:
Of the holy books, four find mention in the Quran: the Sahifa, scrolls given to Abraham; the Tawrat, the revelations made to Moses; the Zabur, the psalms given to David; the Injil, the teachings given to Jesus. It is a belief of a Muslim that each of these (as well every other Book sent by God to His Prophets) was originally a complete revelation. However, for a variety of reasons, most of these revealed books sent by God could not be preserved. For instance, the Quran mentions the scriptures given to Abraham (87:14-19) as Sahifa, but these are no longer in existence and were lost completely. Others were changed in various ways by human intervention. (This is of course the part Christians disagree with).
Thus these previous scriptures are no longer in their original form. They could best be described as edited versions of divine revelations, which have been altered from time to time by editors and commentators. So we can say that those ancient scriptures, which still exist today, have not been preserved from human interpolations. They have been tampered with at will by their adherents, who have retained the portions they wanted to and deleted the portions they disliked. Therefore, these scriptures have lost their veracity.
So my understanding is (and I am not Muslim so others could clarify) that they believe in the Gospel from the perspective it is divine revelation from God, but they also believe we don’t have a true copy of what was revealed.
You might want to read a little about this instead of calling people liars. It doesn’t hurt to be respectful of people who have different beliefs than yours or mine, and learning a little about others’ faith can only be a threat to those of weak faith.
Peace and God bless…
- Status