Islamic persecution of Catholics

[Edris]

tmaconway:

And see this news from Egypt today:

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051021/wl_mideast_afp/egyptreligiondemo

I would like to hear the usual excuses from the Muslim regulars in this forum for yet another affront to civilized society.

“The play, performed by amateur actors, tells the story of a young Christian who converts to Islam and is exhorted by a sheikh to kill priests and destroy churches, according to the independent Al-Dustur paper.”

Actually, if i was there in Egypt i would’ve participated in the protests.

What i would like to hear is an apology from the christians, not an excuse from the Muslims. How would you expect the muslims to respect you if you don’t respect their religion.

But anyways, everyone knows why the coptic church made this play. Since 2001 every year thousands of coptic christians convert to islam. The coptic leaders started claiming that muslims are forcing people to convert, Then they claimed that they are paying them money to convert to Islam. Seems all this didn’t work, so now they are trying to demean the image of Islam by these silly plays.

 

[jdavidparrott]

Edris, I have a history question that you might be able to answer then a statement so as to stay on the thread topic.
Isn’t the black stone a hold over item from when Mecca was the pre-Islamic site of moon god worship? Will Durant mentions it in his “Age of Faith” among others. The statues of Allah & his daughters were destroyed in the conquest of Mecca by Mohamed & his early followers. But Mohamed kept the black stone which some think is a meteorite. I have often wondered about this.

On the topic of persecution I think it not right that a Muslim can view St. Peters without fear of being killed but a Christian is not allowed to visit the equivalent Islamic sites.

 

[MugenOne]

Amen!

Muslims don’t view us, Christian or other religions, as equal.

"On the topic of persecution I think it not right that a Muslim can view St. Peters without fear of being killed but a Christian is not allowed to visit the equivalent Islamic sites.

 

[dulcissima]

Muslims can visit St Peter’s because the Vatican allows it. The Church can decide for itself who can and can not visit St Peter’s.

It seems to me that we should let Muslims practice their religion as they see fit. I think it would be wrong for non-Muslims to have a say in how this is done, other than we would not their practice of their faith to harm or endanger anyone.

I always tell my kids everything doesn’t have to be tit for tat. Just because we welcome everyone, doesn’t mean that they have to.

You know, there is a thread going on in the apologetics forum by a non-Catholic who is offended that he is prohibitted from partaking of the eucharist. I think that is pretty much in line with non-Muslims being prevented from visiting Mecca.

 

[selvaraj]

Many Catholics and Christians are entering Mecca with the help of government officials to rectify their central air-conditioning system, Elevators and Luxuries mercedise bus. When some major problem take place in these, first they try with Muslim technicians. If not done by them, then they arrange temporary ID to non-Muslims as Muslims.

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[Zerith]

dulcissima:

You know, there is a thread going on in the apologetics forum by a non-Catholic who is offended that he is prohibitted from partaking of the eucharist. I think that is pretty much in line with non-Muslims being prevented from visiting Mecca.

And that violates Human Rights in… What way?

You’re restricting the free movement of people, as for the Eucharist… Hmm… Not allowing one to eat? Heh.

I do see where you’re coming from, but it’s not the same.

 

[mjdonnelly]

If you don’t like the rules, don’t join the club. It is their decision to not allow anyone to go see their rock. Fine.

The play that was made was inappropriate. It is like a t-shirt I heard a sailor wore when he visited Japan. It had a mushroom cloud on it with the words: “Made in America, tested in Japan”. After he was beaten in the riot, his commanding officer punished him.

The riots in Egypt are also rediculous, but it what has come to be expected in Islamic countries.

 

[timur]

jdavidparrott:

Edris, I Isn’t the black stone a hold over item from when Mecca was the pre-Islamic site of moon god worship? Will Durant mentions it in his “Age of Faith” among others. The statues of Allah & his daughters were destroyed in the conquest of Mecca by Mohamed & his early followers. But Mohamed kept the black stone which some think is a meteorite. I have often wondered about this.

This moon god which you are speaking is this the story of early greek or egipet… dont if u are lost in SPACE but consider this before making such statments from jewish sites:
One night,prophet Abraham went up to the mountain, leaned against a rock, and looked up to the sky. He saw a shining star, and told his people: “Could this be my Lord?” But when it set he said: “I don’t like those that set.” The star has disappeared, it could not be God. God is always present. Then he saw the moon rising in splendor and told them: “Could this be my Lord?” But it also set. At daybreak, he saw the sun rising and said: t “Could this be my Lord, this is bigger?” But when the sun set he said: “O my people I am free from all that you join as partners with Allah! I have turned my face towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah.” Our Lord is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and everything. He has the power to make the stars rise and set. Ibrahim then heard Allah calling him: “O Abraham!” Abraham said trembling: “Here I am O my Lord!” “Submit to Me! Be a Muslim!” Abraham fell on the ground, prostrating and crying, he said: “I submit to the Lord of the universe!” Ibrahim kept prostrating until night came again. He got up and went back to his home, in t peace, full of conviction that Allah has guided him to the Truth.

Abouth the statues the 360 gods which existed in the Lord’s House-Mesjidul Haram-they were destroyed becose through time people lost faith in only One God and like cristians today they were looking for explenation to have statues and objekts which willk help them to come closer to God…not directly but indirectly through saints ,through picture and so on…and on…altough is forbiden in the bible.

 

[Karin]

Franze:

Esris, you can´t forbid the presence of non-muslims in The Mecca, you are violating the human rights, please consider that, the freedom of religion and these things. With a religious real freedom many muslims would leave islam.

Why would a non-muslim want to go to Mecca? This is a holy and religious site to Muslims and if they do not want non-muslims there is that not their right?

 

[Franze]

Why would a non-muslim want to go to Mecca? This is a holy and religious site to Muslims and if they do not want non-muslims there is that not their right?

No, of course not, a city isn´t a mosque, and a city must be visited by everything.

 

[Franze]

“The play, performed by amateur actors, tells the story of a young Christian who converts to Islam and is exhorted by a sheikh to kill priests and destroy churches, according to the independent Al-Dustur paper.”

Actually, if i was there in Egypt i would’ve participated in the protests.

What i would like to hear is an apology from the christians, not an excuse from the Muslims. How would you expect the muslims to respect you if you don’t respect their religion.

But anyways, everyone knows why the coptic church made this play. Since 2001 every year thousands of coptic christians convert to islam. The coptic leaders started claiming that muslims are forcing people to convert, Then they claimed that they are paying them money to convert to Islam. Seems all this didn’t work, so now they are trying to demean the image of Islam by these silly plays.

Are you against freedom speech?

 

[Karin]

Franze:

No, of course not, a city isn´t a mosque, and a city must be visited by everything.

Really and who made those rules ? Mecca is a HOLY MUSLIM CITY and if the Muslims choose not to let non-believers in that is their choice and right.
You also never answered the origianl question…**Why would a non-muslim want to go to Mecca? **

 

[timur]

Franze:

Are you against freedom speech?

I think my friend your fight for freedom brought you where you are now…I can see how much you want to spit on everything you dont understant ,or better say everithing you are not allowed to do.Becose you want so much to see mecca i will kindly ask you that you have a choice to accept islam so all the joy of this and the after life wll be yours.

 

[Franze]

Karin:

Really and who made those rules ? Mecca is a HOLY MUSLIM CITY and if the Muslims choose not to let non-believers in that is their choice and right.
You also never answered the origianl question…**Why would a non-muslim want to go to Mecca? **

And Jerusalem, is a holy christian city and non-christians are allowed, and jews are allowed too, although it´s a holy jew city.

 

[Karin]

Franze:

And Jerusalem, is a holy christian city and non-christians are allowed, and jews are allowed too, although it´s a holy jew city.

that was a jewish/ christian choice to allow others in…and good for them. But just becuase one does something does not mean that another has to do it also.
Once again Franz…WHY WOULD A NON-MUSLIM WANT TO GO TO MECCA?
The only reason I can see a non-muslim wanting to go to Mecca was to study Islam…there is nothing else there that would interest them

 

[Franze]

timur:

I think my friend your fight for freedom brought you where you are now…I can see how much you want to spit on everything you dont understant ,or better say everithing you are not allowed to do.Becose you want so much to see mecca i will kindly ask you that you have a choice to accept islam so all the joy of this and the after life wll be yours.

Timur, I´m afraid for you, the life is too much short and we have to walk in the right way, Christ is God made man, and I want to christianize everybody, including muslims, because I am brother of Jesus and son of God.
He liberatizes us form the original sin, and we have the eucharisty, he is with us, until the end in the world. And he gave us the church, with Peter and their succesors.
I want to go to The Mecca for praying to Christ, for going to the catholic cathedral and seeing muslims converted.
Like St Paul said, God is with us. Timur, thinks about the sense of life, love your enemies, and being a christian, because “He is the way, the truth and the life”

 

[timur]

Franze:

And Jerusalem, is a holy christian city and non-christians are allowed, and jews are allowed too, although it´s a holy jew city.

You are wrong again it is a muslim holy site:The story of the conquest of Jerusalem under the 2nd rightly guided Muslim Caliph - Khalifa Umar (ra) is one of the most beautiful story from the golden age of the Islamic Ummah. After the Christian partiarch presented Khalifa Umar (ra) with the keys of the city - a covenant was agreed granting life and liberty for the christian citizens of Jerusalem under Muslim rule. This covenant is remembered as Khalifa Umar’s famous covenant.

It is interesting to note that when the Crusaders were defeated by Sultan Salahuddin Ayyoubi (aslo known as “Saladin”) and Jerusalem was conquered by Muslims again - the Christians rushed and brought the document of Omar’s covenat and asked for protection - at which point “Saladin” - put the covenant on top of his head out of respect and granted them safety and religious freedom.

 

[dulcissima]

Zerith:

And that violates Human Rights in… What way?

You’re restricting the free movement of people, as for the Eucharist… Hmm… Not allowing one to eat? Heh.

I do see where you’re coming from, but it’s not the same.

I think it is pretty close to being the same. We are protective of that which is holy and don’t want to see demeaned by an unbleliever. It is the same with Muslims and Mecca.

I think the bigger violation of human rights would be if we interfered with their practice of their religion just because of our idle curiosity. What does a non-Muslim lose by not going to Mecca?

 

[exoflare]

timur:

You are wrong again it is a muslim holy site:

That’s it. Keep talking…

 

[exoflare]

dulcissima:

What does a non-Muslim lose by not going to Mecca?

The problem is that if Muslims had their way, the whole world would eventually be like Mecca.