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timur
Guest
We see crusader Armies in Bagdad and Jerusalem ,thats more likely happening now.
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Rachel_Malloy
Guest
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Coptic
Guest
Just to clarify…
Most Copts speak arabic, and when they are speaking in arabic, then yes, they call God “Allah”.
When they are speaking in English they call God “God”.
If we are speaking in French we would call God “Dieu”
If we are speaking in Spanish we would call God “Dios”
If we are speaking in Italian we would call God “Nume”
Shall I go on or are we catching on to the pattern…
Makes sense doesn’t it?!
God Bless,
Elizabeth
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Karin
Guest
What does what we call God have to do with the theme of this thread??? Can we get back on track???
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realCatholic
Guest
Code:
We all don't know that because it is false, and revisionist history.
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bones_IV
Guest
Edris, a lot people of unfortunately misunderstand what the crusades were about. The violent action of behalf of Christians seems repugnant to most modern people. You first have to understand the mindset of the time and further explore the situation which gave birth to it. There were about ten crusades altogether (actually 7 in you combine them). The crusades actually have their roots in the 4th century. Pilgrammages from Europe to the Holy Land were very popular in the day. They believed that in making the pilgrammage there they were making experiential contact witht the places that Jesus lived in. Added to this was the number of relics being spread acroos the Mediterranean.
However in the Eleventh Century (1009 A.D.), Al Hakem, the Moslem Caleph of Egypt, ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulcher and the removal of the Christian presence in Jerusalem. Obviously this guy truly hated the Catholic Church. The Moslem oppression of Christians was constant from that point on and led to horrible abuses. In 1071 A.D., the Seldjuk Turks took Jesuralem. This stuff Edris, you left unmentioned.
Pope Urban II finally stood up and said enough is enough. In 1095, he ordered the first Crusade for the protection of all Christians in the Holy Land. When the city of Jerusalem was finally captured in 1099 A.D. sad to say the troops entered the city and killed every inhabitant they could find. This event cannot be ignored nor excused. We Catholics deeply regret the horrible atrocity committed by Catholics during this time in the name of Christ and the Catholic Church and is a sin that the Church apologizes for. Our own Pope John Paul II asked for forgiveness in the name of the Catholic Church for crimes, like this one, committed in the name of faith.
However in the Eleventh Century (1009 A.D.), Al Hakem, the Moslem Caleph of Egypt, ordered the destruction of the Holy Sepulcher and the removal of the Christian presence in Jerusalem. Obviously this guy truly hated the Catholic Church. The Moslem oppression of Christians was constant from that point on and led to horrible abuses. In 1071 A.D., the Seldjuk Turks took Jesuralem. This stuff Edris, you left unmentioned.
Pope Urban II finally stood up and said enough is enough. In 1095, he ordered the first Crusade for the protection of all Christians in the Holy Land. When the city of Jerusalem was finally captured in 1099 A.D. sad to say the troops entered the city and killed every inhabitant they could find. This event cannot be ignored nor excused. We Catholics deeply regret the horrible atrocity committed by Catholics during this time in the name of Christ and the Catholic Church and is a sin that the Church apologizes for. Our own Pope John Paul II asked for forgiveness in the name of the Catholic Church for crimes, like this one, committed in the name of faith.
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timur
Guest
Its interesting to note that the times
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Edris
Guest
I have to explain some points about Al Hakim, because i assume many people don’t know who he was. All what is circulated is that he’s the first muslim Caliph that started the persecution of christians in Jerusalem. Will you’ll be surprised if I tell you that Al Hakim was not muslim. First of all, his father was shiite, his mother was christian (and she didn’t convert to Islam), so the man is half shiite half christian. He took the Calaphate by force. He belongs to the Ismaiili sect, which are considered non-muslims even by the shiites themselves. The crimes he commited against muslims where much worse than those commited against chrisitans and Jews. He gave the christians (crusaders) what they were looking for. So they came to Jerusalem and did what they did. After Salah el dine, regained Jerusalem he set things back on track, gave the christians and Jews the freedom to practice their religion.
The only muslim caliph that deviated from the teachings of Islam (Al Hakim) and attacked other religions without reason was not even a muslim.
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bones_IV
Guest
And Christians for the most part are treated as second class citizens. This is not oppression? Some of reasons for the success of Arab conquest had to with military and political ones. Many Caliphates were Christians and even the Mamelukes had Coptic Christians run the governments. Interesting to point out though.
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JOHNYJ
Guest
RE : Timur # 60
Crusader armies in Jerusalem & Baghdad. No one told me.
I haven’t heard any christians yelling, " GOD WILLS IT ',only muslims.
In Baghdad the armies are made up of christians jews, even a few muslims. In Jerusalem, its mostly Jews.
The USA is the worst colonial power in the history of the world ! it always gives its colonies independence with in a few years.
We even have teritories that won’t leave.
The USA has offered Puerto Rico independence 5 times,they wont leave !
Northern Micronesia was about to be INdependent with the rest of Micronesia and said,NO ! they negotiated with the USA and became a protectorate.
The United States has liberated more countres than any other country in the history of the world !
Crusader armies in Jerusalem & Baghdad. No one told me.
I haven’t heard any christians yelling, " GOD WILLS IT ',only muslims.
In Baghdad the armies are made up of christians jews, even a few muslims. In Jerusalem, its mostly Jews.
The USA is the worst colonial power in the history of the world ! it always gives its colonies independence with in a few years.
We even have teritories that won’t leave.
The USA has offered Puerto Rico independence 5 times,they wont leave !
Northern Micronesia was about to be INdependent with the rest of Micronesia and said,NO ! they negotiated with the USA and became a protectorate.
The United States has liberated more countres than any other country in the history of the world !
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timur
Guest
you got the point now…it is jews who control cristians ,not oposite.
But it is still Colonial for almoust 150 years.And it is still making its money throughout the world…do you want to know about arm sale,or the thing your goverment is doing to make conflict in the rest of the world;or maybe you havent heard???
So what are they waiting in Iraq,more oil,to pay of the
advanture,the good kowboy bush is hunting the bad cowboy sadam ,he catched him…its time to leave Iraq,or it will be much worst than Vietnam.
I dont know this,but when hitler invaded france he told the same thing
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Zerith
Guest
Tell me how this conversation got to the point of politics?
By liberating more countries, if by referring to the world wars, then, no. It was not solely America.
As for arms sale, yes, it’s a lucritive market, but not essential. It’s not just America that manufactures arms, nor does it need to be produced by one country. For example: Ireland produces the computer technology etc… used in Israeli helicopters.
America does not force the Arabs to fight amongst themselves, nor to be so hostile to foreigners. Look at the radical Muslim Clerics who incite terrorist activities, and who are at the head of Islamic Terrorist groups - They’re creating far more use, and need, for weapons and arms than America.
“Jews control Christians” - How? I know you’re referring to that military point, but… How? In Baghdad, the armies are made up of Christians, Jews and Muslims (No, not “A few”, but quite a few), but they’re also made up, largely, of Atheists.
I’m not for the war in Iraq, I too see that Iraq has the potential to be another Vietnam. But the Kurds in the North do not want that. The Shia are not entirely in favour. And, while, roughly, about two thirds of the Sunnis do, that’s still one third who don’t. Making up the majority of the country in favour of ruling themselves and are thankful for the help of the Americans. Though, I must say, America has made an absolute balls of it.
Oil? Maybe. But not in the sense you’re thinking about. Saddam changed to trade his oil in euro, he also changed all his external reserves to euro, this, if done by other countries too, would devastate the American economy. Saddam changed back shortly before the war, and it was completely reverted to Dollars during the “occupation”. America has a deal with Saudi Arabia, they will recognise the regime there, so long as they sell them oil, and trade in Dollars, which is very hypocritical. Not only that, they backed a coup on the Democratically elected government of Venuzuela when they traded in euro (It failed). While it is more benificial to Europe for that, it doesn’t really matter. Either way, America makes money, trade goes up, markets get better. I’d prefer them to trade in euro, I’d prefer more countries to have their external reserves in euro, but doesn’t matter; everything’s fine as it is. It doesn’t matter, or do you think things will actually improve?
But it is by far not the time to leave Iraq. They’re in there for the long-run. Do you want America to leave Iraq in ruins? To leave the people scrapping for… Anything? To leave the three ethnic and religious groups fighting for power? Even if they establish the government, it will not be strong enough, straight away. It needs time, several years. All I can tell that you want is Islamic control, which would most likely repress two out of three groups, which would be oppressive, repressive, regressive… For once, I prefer America.
Why do you compare Johny to Hitler? And I cannot remember such a phrase ever being said. When France surrendered, Vichy France was created. Germany did not “Liberate” them, this was an armstice signed, to allow the French to rule themselves.
Timur; you make no sense. Ever.
By liberating more countries, if by referring to the world wars, then, no. It was not solely America.
As for arms sale, yes, it’s a lucritive market, but not essential. It’s not just America that manufactures arms, nor does it need to be produced by one country. For example: Ireland produces the computer technology etc… used in Israeli helicopters.
America does not force the Arabs to fight amongst themselves, nor to be so hostile to foreigners. Look at the radical Muslim Clerics who incite terrorist activities, and who are at the head of Islamic Terrorist groups - They’re creating far more use, and need, for weapons and arms than America.
“Jews control Christians” - How? I know you’re referring to that military point, but… How? In Baghdad, the armies are made up of Christians, Jews and Muslims (No, not “A few”, but quite a few), but they’re also made up, largely, of Atheists.
I’m not for the war in Iraq, I too see that Iraq has the potential to be another Vietnam. But the Kurds in the North do not want that. The Shia are not entirely in favour. And, while, roughly, about two thirds of the Sunnis do, that’s still one third who don’t. Making up the majority of the country in favour of ruling themselves and are thankful for the help of the Americans. Though, I must say, America has made an absolute balls of it.
Oil? Maybe. But not in the sense you’re thinking about. Saddam changed to trade his oil in euro, he also changed all his external reserves to euro, this, if done by other countries too, would devastate the American economy. Saddam changed back shortly before the war, and it was completely reverted to Dollars during the “occupation”. America has a deal with Saudi Arabia, they will recognise the regime there, so long as they sell them oil, and trade in Dollars, which is very hypocritical. Not only that, they backed a coup on the Democratically elected government of Venuzuela when they traded in euro (It failed). While it is more benificial to Europe for that, it doesn’t really matter. Either way, America makes money, trade goes up, markets get better. I’d prefer them to trade in euro, I’d prefer more countries to have their external reserves in euro, but doesn’t matter; everything’s fine as it is. It doesn’t matter, or do you think things will actually improve?
But it is by far not the time to leave Iraq. They’re in there for the long-run. Do you want America to leave Iraq in ruins? To leave the people scrapping for… Anything? To leave the three ethnic and religious groups fighting for power? Even if they establish the government, it will not be strong enough, straight away. It needs time, several years. All I can tell that you want is Islamic control, which would most likely repress two out of three groups, which would be oppressive, repressive, regressive… For once, I prefer America.
Why do you compare Johny to Hitler? And I cannot remember such a phrase ever being said. When France surrendered, Vichy France was created. Germany did not “Liberate” them, this was an armstice signed, to allow the French to rule themselves.
Timur; you make no sense. Ever.
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JSmitty2005
Guest
Persecution for the name and teachings of Jesus:
tcrnews2.com/reminders.html
tcrnews2.com/reminders.html
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timur
Guest
I know this is going out of theme into a politic but i have only one answer:The so called Great Power America is near moral and psihological colaps,like all the Imperial state it is loosing its goal,becose money doesnt turn the world. Demos kratos or so called ruling of the people is not respectet in Islam teaching,it is teo cratos or the Ruling of God which give us all the solution for better world ,that is the only solution which wins on the end…God is the First and the Last He is ethernal.All the things human did will be destoyed and all of them will be resurected on the DAY OF JUDJMENT by their deed,if you all think that invading Iraq is America’s problem and it is right thing to be in there in order to help those poor people then ok ,we will all wait the day when we are going to answer for our deeds and surely it will be a HArd DAY for heaven and the EARTH and much more harder for us people,in a day when our own organ will speak against us…our own thum is going to speak becose God order him,it is a DAY when all of our deeds will be uncovered so we will see all the reason for every one amoung us , The one who loved money,the one who loved carier ,and who was egoistic and who soled his soul to the devol,It will be a painfull day for those who didnt belived who accused the belivers that they are imoral and on the wrong path .We will see if you spoke the truth in this forum too or you used only this word to atack muslims becose they seamed dirty and imoral to you or you just had a prejudice without looking the real fact.But Godwilling this beautifull faith of Islam is clean of your filthy words it is revealed only to people which are ready to accept God ruling and things which are gave to people to benefit them on this life and after life,it is a religion which has the noble Quran so people can understand the faith and the last prophet which is remembered in details like he still isliving amoung us.This is the only faith which has an answer to drug, to alcohol to the social problem like smoking and abortus.It is the only religion which tells us what is waiting us in details and what shold we know for this world …it is God who declared this religion for choosen one becose He only recognize a religion which is in all segment devoted to Him the Most Respected The most High the Creator of all the things known and unknown,The one who has all knowlage…Pray to your Lord as He wanted to pray…prostrate beneath Him like Jesus did ,like all the prophets did ,it will relax your hearts and it will make u closer to your Master.
Selam alejkum ve rahmetulahu we berekatuhu(Let be God mercy and peace amoung you o children of Adam.)
P.S.Please open your hearts of understanding and make an effort to just once read the Quran…‘O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.’ If then they turn back, say ye: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will).’ (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"
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JimG
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The only problem is that Theocratic rule does not mean in practice that God rules directly. Rather, it means being subject to some humans who allegedly speak for God. And who selects those intermediaries?
Does it also mean that you propose Sharia Law for every nation as a general principle of governance?
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timur
Guest
Yes it means ,if you use Quran and the prophet teaching as your compas.If people are honest with God and they honestly devote to God’s course using itzdihad (to use mind calkulation of the problem which occur knowing what is more important in God sight)they can succed in giving measure of the problem.I dont say that there arent thing which we can not use from the West(Americas and Eurpe) system of judjment,but that would be only on basis which are not directly related to God order in Quran and some places in bible which are similar(like to throw rock on person which comited adultry)This cannot be changed unless the person which commited the sin doesnt honestly repent ,or something else…but on the World level if there is a chance to get the seriah law than there first should govern only one figure-the calipha becose he must judje according God revelation.You catolic have this in practice but the pope is out of jurisdicion…that is not allowed in Islam you cant have unbelivers in that kind of state,only critians and jews have some kind of rights.
srry i must stop here time for prayer
srry i must stop here time for prayer
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Hashi_Al-Eritre
Guest
I think this thread should be titled Persectuion of Catholics instead of Islamic persecution, the site isnt even about Muslims persecuting catholics, just persecution of catholics in general. Most of the articles are not about Muslims persecuting catholics.
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timur
Guest
Are you interested how strong is American Imprial power-super power
jihadunspun.com/intheatre_external.php?article=105008&list=/home.php&
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JimG
Guest
The Pope of course has universal spiritual jurisdiction for Catholics. But as for civil law, he governs only Vatican City.…but on the World level if there is a chance to get the seriah law than there first should govern only one figure-the calipha becose he must judje according God revelation.You catolic have this in practice but the pope is out of jurisdicion…that is not allowed in Islam you cant have unbelivers in that kind of state,only critians and jews have some kind of rights.
srry i must stop here time for prayer
But if Sharia law were to govern a state or a region, how could it adapt, since the Quran is not changeable?
How, for example, would you have laws regulating stem cell use, or human cloning, or licensing of universities, copyright laws, or even speed limits for cars? Surely the Sharia does not cover everything?
You say that “only citizens and Jews” have some kind of rights under Islamic law. How about international treaties? Does sharia law allow for them, or for international law? Does it recognize non-Islamic law as legitimate for those peoples who freely choose it?
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timur
Guest
Quran is a book of spiritual guidance not a law book.It is unchengable but you have an answer for everything.
Islam’s obligation towards knowledge coupled with its tradition towards not allowing surrogate parenting or embryo adoption, leads many Islamic scholars to believe that the Qur’an can be used to support stem cell research.
Islam has a theology based legal system that dictates law based upon divine and immutable revelation. The main authority of Islam, the Qur’an, is not an encyclopedia of how to live one’s life. There are several other sources of truth in Islam but it is the Shari’ah that contains the body of legal literature. Muslims believe that the Shari’ah teaches Muslims how to worship according to the Qur’an and the ways of the Prophet Muhammad. 4 However, Islamic law is flexible and is supposed to be analyzed under current times to deal with new problems.
pfaith.org/islam.htm
And about human cloning:
islam101.com/science/cloning.htm
copiright law :
muhajabah.com/islamicblog/archives/veiled4allah/004705.php
N o legitimacy for laws alowed which are againts ruling of God
Like i said before :democracy ,comunism …fashism and so on is not allowed
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