S
StMarkEofE
Guest
See, this proves that there is freedom of the press in Muslim countries. The Muslims are free to defile both Christian and Jews in their cartoons.
- Status
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estesbob
Guest
About 20% of my clients are Muslim and I dont run into any of this with them YET it seems prevalent in most other countries. In fact i dont think we have had any protests in the US about these cartoons?
OTH It could just be that my Muslim clients dont want to discuss politics with me
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
Once their numbers increase and begin to have undue influence on our media, government and the like it will most definitely happen. Ask the most devoted Muslim what their aims are for the Infidel America.
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G_S
Guest
I would like to see a world where no one was even interested in mocking the founders or leaders of other religions. I was not amused by the fact that, in the name of freedom of expression, Salmon Rushdie was touted as a near hero by the White House. How absurd. What was the president trying to prove? Such a thing can only come from a secularist mindset. No one could claim that mockery is a Christian virtue. But how much more deplorable was the fatwa issued against Mr. Rushdie. Christians are too passive in the light of The Last Temptation of Christ, The DeVinci Code, Hitler’s Pope, and so on. We should heartily boycott but not resort to violence. Good grief, Jesus didn’t allow violent action to defend himself. Denmark, with its legalization of almost everything, is basically indefensible. But burning its embassies? Completely indefensible. A Christian, being human, being a sinner, might take violent action as a protest but can never use the faith to defend his action. A Christian martyr bears witness by the willingness to die at the hands of another rather than deny the faith not by dying in the action of killing another.
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bjd2006pc
Guest
I have met Peaceful Muslims…However, there is something fundamentally screwy with their religion. I can’t quite put my finger on it (I can, but don’t want to offend)…
Islam has a lot of growing up to do…
I know this sounds silly coming from a Protestant wanting to convert to Catholicism…But…Isn’t time for the Islamic faith to go through a reformation? I mean, really, the world will never take this religion seriously until they do. Shouldn’t peaceful Muslims put their collective foot down and demand a change in their faith?
If there one billion Muslims in the world and ‘only ten percent’ are fundamentalists, that is 100,000,000 people willing murder Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Rastafarians, Mormons, etc, etc, etc…Do you get my drift?
Followers of Islam: Get off of your rear ends and stop this insanity… Only you can stop this…
Joe
Islam has a lot of growing up to do…
I know this sounds silly coming from a Protestant wanting to convert to Catholicism…But…Isn’t time for the Islamic faith to go through a reformation? I mean, really, the world will never take this religion seriously until they do. Shouldn’t peaceful Muslims put their collective foot down and demand a change in their faith?
If there one billion Muslims in the world and ‘only ten percent’ are fundamentalists, that is 100,000,000 people willing murder Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Rastafarians, Mormons, etc, etc, etc…Do you get my drift?
Followers of Islam: Get off of your rear ends and stop this insanity… Only you can stop this…
Joe
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brotherhrolf
Guest
This is just an observation on my part but I did notice it. After Katrina, the churches and syanagogues of Baton Rouge went into high gear and cooperated with one another without regard to denomination to help the evacuees from New Orleans. Noticeably absent were the two Islamic mosques here in this city. It spoke volumes to me.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
**http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01002#I
**“The Pope’s recent visit to Syria, to the Al-Umawi mosque is, without a doubt, another manifestation of that call. **The call by [the Pope] - may Allah punish him as he deserves **- to the people of the [different] religions in Syria to live in peaceful coexistence is nothing more than an audacious call for the unification of religions, in accordance with the principle of human religious harmony… This Pope, the head of the Catholic Church, and those behind him calling for the unification of the religions, are the descendants of the Spanish inquisitors who tortured the Muslims most abominably… They are the descendants of those who led the Crusades to the Islamic East, in which thousands of Muslims were killed and their wives taken captive in uncountable numbers. They are the perpetrators of the massacres in Bosnia-Herzegovina… in Kosovo, in Indonesia, and in Chechnya… Can we expect compassion from these murderous wolves? What made the Pope go on his visit was his dissatisfaction with the robbing of the Muslims’ lands; he wanted also to rob their religion, so that they lose both this world and the Hereafter…”
Sheikh Mustafa Bin Sa’id Aytim was also agitated by the Pope’s Syrian visit. In a sermon at a Mecca mosque, he cited it as proof that “Christian missionaries are invading the Islamic world.”[7]
Sheikh Aytim also objected to the concept of interreligious harmony, saying: “It is no surprise that the Jews and Christians deny the Koran. What is amazing is that some ignoramuses and traitors from among the Muslims say: ‘The Jews and Christians are our brothers…’ It is quite amazing that anyone claiming he believes in the Koran says that the Jews and Christians love us and feel no loathing and hatred for us!!.. The People of the Book’s hatred of Muslims is certain and absolute. This is a solid belief, which Allah has proven in the Koran, and there is also historical evidence of it… And lo, today we see that they lie about security and peace - a security council here, a peace emissary there; a security plan here, a prayer for peace there. By Allah, who told you that wild animals can become human? Can wild animals give birth to anything other than wild animals?”[8]
But maybe the objection is to syncretism ? To that, certainly - but, religious harmony is seen as syncretistic in itself:
In a sermon delivered at the Manar Al-Islam mosque in Mecca, Sheikh 'Ali Muhammad Al-Baroum said: “The idea of intertwining religions and the claim that the Jews and the Christians believe in religions of truth… **are sinful claims **and deceitful ideas unacceptable to the religion [of Islam]… It is forbidden to bring together Islam and the infidels, monotheism and polytheism… Allah’s path of righteousness and Satan’s path of Kufur.”[9]
So, there are two claims, not just the one: one decribes what we in the West would call syncretism, and would call bad, while the second is a condemnation of the religions of Jews and Christians as such: Jewish and Christian religious claims are sinful, and from satan.
[continued…]
**“The Pope’s recent visit to Syria, to the Al-Umawi mosque is, without a doubt, another manifestation of that call. **The call by [the Pope] - may Allah punish him as he deserves **- to the people of the [different] religions in Syria to live in peaceful coexistence is nothing more than an audacious call for the unification of religions, in accordance with the principle of human religious harmony… This Pope, the head of the Catholic Church, and those behind him calling for the unification of the religions, are the descendants of the Spanish inquisitors who tortured the Muslims most abominably… They are the descendants of those who led the Crusades to the Islamic East, in which thousands of Muslims were killed and their wives taken captive in uncountable numbers. They are the perpetrators of the massacres in Bosnia-Herzegovina… in Kosovo, in Indonesia, and in Chechnya… Can we expect compassion from these murderous wolves? What made the Pope go on his visit was his dissatisfaction with the robbing of the Muslims’ lands; he wanted also to rob their religion, so that they lose both this world and the Hereafter…”
Sheikh Mustafa Bin Sa’id Aytim was also agitated by the Pope’s Syrian visit. In a sermon at a Mecca mosque, he cited it as proof that “Christian missionaries are invading the Islamic world.”[7]
Sheikh Aytim also objected to the concept of interreligious harmony, saying: “It is no surprise that the Jews and Christians deny the Koran. What is amazing is that some ignoramuses and traitors from among the Muslims say: ‘The Jews and Christians are our brothers…’ It is quite amazing that anyone claiming he believes in the Koran says that the Jews and Christians love us and feel no loathing and hatred for us!!.. The People of the Book’s hatred of Muslims is certain and absolute. This is a solid belief, which Allah has proven in the Koran, and there is also historical evidence of it… And lo, today we see that they lie about security and peace - a security council here, a peace emissary there; a security plan here, a prayer for peace there. By Allah, who told you that wild animals can become human? Can wild animals give birth to anything other than wild animals?”[8]
But maybe the objection is to syncretism ? To that, certainly - but, religious harmony is seen as syncretistic in itself:
In a sermon delivered at the Manar Al-Islam mosque in Mecca, Sheikh 'Ali Muhammad Al-Baroum said: “The idea of intertwining religions and the claim that the Jews and the Christians believe in religions of truth… **are sinful claims **and deceitful ideas unacceptable to the religion [of Islam]… It is forbidden to bring together Islam and the infidels, monotheism and polytheism… Allah’s path of righteousness and Satan’s path of Kufur.”[9]
So, there are two claims, not just the one: one decribes what we in the West would call syncretism, and would call bad, while the second is a condemnation of the religions of Jews and Christians as such: Jewish and Christian religious claims are sinful, and from satan.
[continued…]
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
…continued and ended]
At Al-Rahmah mosque in Mecca, Sheikh Marzouq Salem Al-Ghamdi spoke against interreligious harmony: "For some time, we have been hearing calls for bringing the religions together, and for unification of the religions. This call is aimed at uniting falsehood with truth, good with abomination… **The Jews and Christians are infidels, enemies of Allah, his Messenger, and the believers. **They deny and curse Allah and his Messenger…
“If the infidels live among the Muslims, in accordance with the conditions set out by the Prophet - there is nothing wrong with it provided they pay Jizya[10] to the Islamic treasury. Other conditions are… that they do not renovate a church or a monastery, do not rebuild ones that were destroyed, that they feed for three days any Muslim who passes by their homes… that they rise when a Muslim wishes to sit, that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech, nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon; that they do not sell wine, do not show the cross, do not ring church bells, do not raise their voices during prayer, that they shave their hair in front so as to make them easily identifiable, do not incite anyone against the Muslims, and do not strike a Muslim…If they violate these conditions, they have no protection.”[11]
While Arab intelligentsia generally object to the concept of the “clash of civilizations” between the East and the West, preachers in Saudi mosques are stressing that it is precisely this - the struggle between Islamic and Western civilizations - that is the true and eternal struggle for the leadership of the human race.
==============
Part II - 'Jews - The Descendants of Pigs and Apes’
“Oh Muslims, the Jews are treacherous and deceitful people over whom lies the curse and anger of Allah. They permitted what Allah forbade, with the lamest of excuses; therefore, He cursed them and turned them into apes and pigs. Allah sentenced them to humiliation anywhere they might be…”[20]
Anyone who doubts the violence of the hatred and loathing of many imams - therefore, of those they influence - for the Jews, has only to follow the link in the first part of the post.
**Part IV - ‘Muslims Must Educate Their Children to Jihad… and to Hatred of Jews and Christians’ **
Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid also discussed education to Jihad, stating: “Muslims must… educate their children to Jihad. This is the greatest benefit of the situation: educating the children to Jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels; educating the children to Jihad and to revival of the embers of Jihad in their souls. This is what is needed now…”[31]
All emphases in both posts are mine. And so on those quotations go
.
Muslim “tolerance” and “peace”, anyone ? ##
At Al-Rahmah mosque in Mecca, Sheikh Marzouq Salem Al-Ghamdi spoke against interreligious harmony: "For some time, we have been hearing calls for bringing the religions together, and for unification of the religions. This call is aimed at uniting falsehood with truth, good with abomination… **The Jews and Christians are infidels, enemies of Allah, his Messenger, and the believers. **They deny and curse Allah and his Messenger…
“If the infidels live among the Muslims, in accordance with the conditions set out by the Prophet - there is nothing wrong with it provided they pay Jizya[10] to the Islamic treasury. Other conditions are… that they do not renovate a church or a monastery, do not rebuild ones that were destroyed, that they feed for three days any Muslim who passes by their homes… that they rise when a Muslim wishes to sit, that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech, nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon; that they do not sell wine, do not show the cross, do not ring church bells, do not raise their voices during prayer, that they shave their hair in front so as to make them easily identifiable, do not incite anyone against the Muslims, and do not strike a Muslim…If they violate these conditions, they have no protection.”[11]
While Arab intelligentsia generally object to the concept of the “clash of civilizations” between the East and the West, preachers in Saudi mosques are stressing that it is precisely this - the struggle between Islamic and Western civilizations - that is the true and eternal struggle for the leadership of the human race.
==============
Part II - 'Jews - The Descendants of Pigs and Apes’
“Oh Muslims, the Jews are treacherous and deceitful people over whom lies the curse and anger of Allah. They permitted what Allah forbade, with the lamest of excuses; therefore, He cursed them and turned them into apes and pigs. Allah sentenced them to humiliation anywhere they might be…”[20]
Anyone who doubts the violence of the hatred and loathing of many imams - therefore, of those they influence - for the Jews, has only to follow the link in the first part of the post.
**Part IV - ‘Muslims Must Educate Their Children to Jihad… and to Hatred of Jews and Christians’ **
Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid also discussed education to Jihad, stating: “Muslims must… educate their children to Jihad. This is the greatest benefit of the situation: educating the children to Jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels; educating the children to Jihad and to revival of the embers of Jihad in their souls. This is what is needed now…”[31]
All emphases in both posts are mine. And so on those quotations go
.Muslim “tolerance” and “peace”, anyone ? ##
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Here they are, doing it:
"On 28 December 1999 - well before the second Palestinian uprising - Al-Hayat al-Jadida, the official Palestinian Authority journal, published a cartoon expressing this core idea. It depicted an old man in a djellaba, symbolizing the twentieth century, taking leave of a young man wearing a tee-shirt symbolizing the twenty-first century. In between them stood a small Jew with a Star of David on his breast, above which an arrow pointed to him saying, 'the illness of the century.'2"A few months later on 22 March 2000, the same journal ran another cartoon showing a large Pope talking to a small Jew with the skin, feet, and tail of an animal, and a big hooked nose, wearing a kippa. The Pope exclaimed ‘Peace on Earth’ while the Satanic-looking Jew calls out ‘Colonies on Earth.’"3
reproduced here, which is how I came across it:
levin.nationalreview.com/archives/089357.asp
More cartoons , and comment in full, here: jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm
Yep, real friendly
One could almost be reading the “Voelkischer Beobachter” or “Der Sturmer” or some other Nazi paper - the cartoons are the same in tone; the targets are the same: Jews, Christians, those who don’t belong. The obscenity and scraping of the barrel are identical - and so is the hate ##
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
What’s good for the goose is obviously not what’s good for the gander. Wake up western civilization! The enemy is at our door.
D
denfather
Guest
I’ve tried to give the benefit of the doubt to the Islamic religion. We’ve all heard it has been highjacked by fanatics. But for some reason I fail to hear the moderate voices in all this. I actually think that the moderate voices we do hear deliberately add to the confusion and makes pinning down the true meaning of the religion difficult. I’ve read where these cartoons have been around since last September but recently gained attention because Hamas’ recent victory in the Middle East along with the Iran situation heating up. Perhaps it’s meant to discourage the West from pursuing sanctions and/or military action. Essentially, we are damned if we do or damned if we don’t. It’s idolatris (spelling) if you draw pictures of the prophet? I thought that was reserved for God himself? For a religion of so called peace where is the outcry when Christian school girls are beheaded in Indonesia when walking from school? Where is the outrage when children are blown up in Russia schools? Where is the outrage and demonstrations when tourists are on vacation in Egypt and blown up? Plus we’ve got a nut job in Iran wanting the apocalypse. Someone at work stated something I’ve never heard before: Mohammed’s tomb is OCCUPIED …Jesus’ EMPTY.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
Gottle of Geer said:…continued and ended]
At Al-Rahmah mosque in Mecca, Sheikh Marzouq Salem Al-Ghamdi spoke against interreligious harmony: "For some time, we have been hearing calls for bringing the religions together, and for unification of the religions. This call is aimed at uniting falsehood with truth, good with abomination… **The Jews and Christians are infidels, enemies of Allah, his Messenger, and the believers. **They deny and curse Allah and his Messenger…
“If the infidels live among the Muslims, in accordance with the conditions set out by the Prophet - there is nothing wrong with it provided they pay Jizya[10] to the Islamic treasury. Other conditions are… that they do not renovate a church or a monastery, do not rebuild ones that were destroyed, that they feed for three days any Muslim who passes by their homes… that they rise when a Muslim wishes to sit, that they do not imitate Muslims in dress and speech, nor ride horses, nor own swords, nor arm themselves with any kind of weapon; that they do not sell wine, do not show the cross, do not ring church bells, do not raise their voices during prayer, that they shave their hair in front so as to make them easily identifiable, do not incite anyone against the Muslims, and do not strike a Muslim…If they violate these conditions, they have no protection.”[11]
While Arab intelligentsia generally object to the concept of the “clash of civilizations” between the East and the West, preachers in Saudi mosques are stressing that it is precisely this - the struggle between Islamic and Western civilizations - that is the true and eternal struggle for the leadership of the human race.
==============
Part II - 'Jews - The Descendants of Pigs and Apes’
“Oh Muslims, the Jews are treacherous and deceitful people over whom lies the curse and anger of Allah. They permitted what Allah forbade, with the lamest of excuses; therefore, He cursed them and turned them into apes and pigs. Allah sentenced them to humiliation anywhere they might be…”[20]
Anyone who doubts the violence of the hatred and loathing of many imams - therefore, of those they influence - for the Jews, has only to follow the link in the first part of the post.
**Part IV - ‘Muslims Must Educate Their Children to Jihad… and to Hatred of Jews and Christians’ **
Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid also discussed education to Jihad, stating: “Muslims must… educate their children to Jihad. This is the greatest benefit of the situation: educating the children to Jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels; educating the children to Jihad and to revival of the embers of Jihad in their souls. This is what is needed now…”[31]
All emphases in both posts are mine. And so on those quotations go
Muslim “tolerance” and “peace”, anyone ? ##
Friendly bunch arent they?
Eastern Christianity has been living with this for Centuries and now it is the west’s turn to enjoy the fruits of Islam.
I
inJESUS
Guest
yet islam is the religion of peace , tolerance and love :dancing:
:tiphat: to Mr pubh/allah/iblis
:tiphat: to Mr pubh/allah/iblis
D
denfather
Guest
Interesting article in Wall Street Journal regarding this cartoon fiasco. There are museums and art work all over the world including middle east that depict Mohammed. Yet non of that is mentioned.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
gurrato alaien:
Christ Jesus was crucified on the cross and there was no uprising but instead Christ Himself asked that His crucifiers be forgiven. Would Muhammed have done the same thing???
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
G&S:
In Christianity it is better to remain passive than to smite thy neighbor. Vengence and retribution are a way of life in the Middle east. Why dont Muslims follow the Love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek? Why because it isnt in the Quran to do so. Honor and shame motivate the Muslim not whether something is right or wrong, good or bad. Good and bad is not relevant only relevant if it has its implecations in the Quran. To murder someone if he or she defiles Muhammed is a virtue. The act of murder is but a means to reduce the insults.
S
StMarkEofE
Guest
The New York Times again published the elephant dung picture of the Blessed Mother today in an article that included words not pictures of Muhammed with his bomb turban. The NYT is not about to piss off the Muslims but it has no trouble dabbling in bad taste in doing it to Christians and Jews.
L
LeahInancsi
Guest
Christianity is a dying religion. Christians are not having enough children to grow the religion and Christianity is not gaining enough converts from non-Christian religions to stand a chance against Islam.
While I didn’t start this thread with the intent of facing off one religion against the other, but we have to face the numbers. It appears that the Muslims do not conprehend the notion of a separation of church and state. Just use your imagination to get a picture of the future.
Two weeks ago, my priest printed an article from The National Catholic Register in our weekly church bulletin regarding this topic. I haven’t been able to find the article on the National Catholic Register website, but you can try to locate it at the link below. Please be patient because it will take a few seconds for **0129136.doc ** to open. Scroll down to page 2 of the bulletin.
128.121.138.209/bulletin/0129136.doc
While I didn’t start this thread with the intent of facing off one religion against the other, but we have to face the numbers. It appears that the Muslims do not conprehend the notion of a separation of church and state. Just use your imagination to get a picture of the future.
Two weeks ago, my priest printed an article from The National Catholic Register in our weekly church bulletin regarding this topic. I haven’t been able to find the article on the National Catholic Register website, but you can try to locate it at the link below. Please be patient because it will take a few seconds for **0129136.doc ** to open. Scroll down to page 2 of the bulletin.
128.121.138.209/bulletin/0129136.doc
I
Izraphel
Guest
Did any of you read the Quran? No? Then (Edited for offensive obscenity) with your theories about Islam.
All those quotes prove nothing except that some muslim people hate other non-muslims.
You might as well quote the pope from the middle ages and one of his speeches about the crusades and then you could say that christianity is a religion of violence.
Hate the muslims that hate you. Leave the rest alone. And go read the quran before you post anything about the islamic religion!
You blame islam for the behaviour of certain muslims and you don’t know ANYTHING apart from what you see on the news.
All those quotes prove nothing except that some muslim people hate other non-muslims.
You might as well quote the pope from the middle ages and one of his speeches about the crusades and then you could say that christianity is a religion of violence.
Hate the muslims that hate you. Leave the rest alone. And go read the quran before you post anything about the islamic religion!
You blame islam for the behaviour of certain muslims and you don’t know ANYTHING apart from what you see on the news.
M
melbourne_guy
Guest
Alot of muslims point out that we should read the quran befor speaking about muslim violence, they say this to divert you from reading the hadiths ( which are very violent).
- Status