Islamic teaching questions

[upant]

God say in Qur’an that the revelation came to Muhammad will be preserved.

this is not proof

As historically it is obvious. Qur’an verses were writen directly when angel Gabriel brought revelation. Later those verses were compiled in a book.

who wrote them directly from the angel?

Ofcourse Sahabas(Muslims who saw prophet Muhammad) did not see Gabriel in original form

so there is no proof an angel dictated the Quran.

But they were able to be aware of revelation coming to prophet if Muhammad were beside them during process.

how?

Once Holy Spirit came in form of a dove as it is writen in Gospel.

please cite this

 

[upant]

Qur’an is words of God directly but not Muhammad’s.

how do you prove this?

Doctrines were established by people and there is no any revelation about that. St. Paul has not seen or met Jesus and Holy Spirit. Paul was not a prophet preaching a Trinity thought to be accepted. Jesus did not teach such thing. Is Paul superior above Jesus and God?

paul was converted by Jesus, how can you say they didn’t meet?

The above statements imply that Trinity cannot be true. Is there any statements in Gospel which explain Trinity? No. But isntead people do some philosophical interpretations.

where do these words come from? there is no proof they come from Allah.

 

[mhmtas63]

Once Holy Spirit came in form of a dove as it is writen in Gospel.

(Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32).

3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Luke

 

[mhmtas63]

paul was converted by Jesus, how can you say they didn’t meet?

Through a vision! How could Paul prove that? Notice! Paul is enemy of Jesus and His followers. He could not stop followers! Perhaps just tactics!

 

[mhmtas63]

how do you prove this?

Qur’an is miracle which meant it cannot be word of a human being by several ways. It take too long to explain. I did a bit in this Thread.

 

[Reuben_J]

There are things in religions that we cannot prove especially the spiritual claim. We often use the phrase – it’s a matter of faith. Both hold true in Christianity and Islam when they happened. One can quickly see the double standard in argument, when this reason (a matter of faith) is being used to justify one religion but not the other.

The physical aspects probably could be argued upon, like Paul being blinded by the shining light from heaven and that he needed to be healed by Ananias so that he could see.

And that the men who journeyed with him to Damascus stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. (Acts 9:7)

In Islam, Muhammad being pressed by the angel Gabriel that he could not breathe is another example.

Then there is the allegedly historical fact – like Waraka’s role in Muhammad’s revelation. As I said, the background to this cannot be easily dismissed and that it certainly played significant role in Muhammad early career as a prophet.

 

[toddy]

People of Mecca laughed and mocked at Mohammad, because after the first chapter he could not produce anything more. Then seeking approval for his wives.
Quran said clearly Mohammad is the deceiver.

“O Prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And God is Forgiving and Merciful.” (Quran 66:1)

“…while you concealed within yourself that which God is to disclose and you feared the people, while God has more right that you fear Him…” (Quran 33:43)

“It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire.” (Quran 9:113)

“But as for he who came to you striving while he fears [God], from him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [these verses] are a reminder.” (Quran 80:8-11)

If he were to hide anything, he would have hid these verses, but he recited them faithfully.

“And he is not a withholder of the unseen. And it [the Quran] is not the word of a devil, expelled. So where are you going? It is nothing but a reminder to the worlds.” (Quran 81:24-27)

Mohammad was not author of Quran, “indeed, the verses are a reminder” because someone already knew, wrote and spelled out Mohammad is deceiver.

Aisha’s book which Mohammad’s intelligent wife did bookkeeping to keep records of all verses from Mohammad for many years was not included in the Quran either; etc.

Mohammad has nothing much to do with the Quran.

 

[toddy]

“Indeed, We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you. And do not be an advocate for the deceitful. And seek forgiveness of God. Indeed, God is ever Forgiving and Merciful. And do not argue on behalf of those who deceive themselves. Indeed, God loves not the one who is a habitually sinful deceiver. They conceal [their evil intentions and deeds] from the people, but they cannot conceal [them] from God, and He is with them [in His knowledge] when they spend the night in such as He does not accept of speech. And God ever is encompassing of what they do,. Here you are – those who argue on their behalf in [this] worldly life – but who will argue with God for them on the Day of Resurrection, or who will [then] be their representative? And whoever does a wrong or wrongs himself but then seeks forgiveness of God will find God Forgiving and Merciful. And whoever earns [i.e., commits] a sin only earns it against himself. And God is ever Knowing and Wise. But whoever earns an offense or a sin and then blames it on an innocent [person] has taken upon himself slander and manifest sin. And if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves, and they will not harm you at all. And God has revealed to you the Book and wisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. And ever has the favor of God upon you been great.” (Quran 4:105-113)

The verses instructed Prophet Muhammad himself not to side with the deceitful! A group of people produced Quran.

“…and do not be an advocate for the deceitful and seek forgiveness of God…and if it was not for the favor of God upon you, [O Muhammad], and His mercy, a group of them would have determined to mislead you.”

I follow godhood, no hate but only truthfulness to save souls of others.

 

[toddy]

None Muslim or anyone on earth met Allah if He is not same God of Judah or Christians.

Only Holy God Spirit can teach you to feel Trinity if God pleases your faith, virtues, good works and so on, but you must be baptized first to have the Holy Spirit upon you.

St Paul was baptized, so he is qualified as the Holy Spirit taught him.

Jesus said: “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. 16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever. 17 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn’t see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you." John 14

Jesus also said to John “The Holy Spirit will remind what I told you”.

[Jesus foretold the world would deny the Holy Spirit God because you and the world do not see Him and so you dont understand.]

 

[mhmtas63]

People of Mecca laughed and mocked at Mohammad, because after the first chapter he could not produce anything more. Then seeking approval for his wives.
Quran said clearly Mohammad is the deceiver.

“O Prophet! Why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And God is Forgiving and Merciful.” (Quran 66:1)

“…while you concealed within yourself that which God is to disclose and you feared the people, while God has more right that you fear Him…” (Quran 33:43)

“It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire.” (Quran 9:113)

“But as for he who came to you striving while he fears [God], from him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [these verses] are a reminder.” (Quran 80:8-11)

If he were to hide anything, he would have hid these verses, but he recited them faithfully.

“And he is not a withholder of the unseen. And it [the Quran] is not the word of a devil, expelled. So where are you going? It is nothing but a reminder to the worlds.” (Quran 81:24-27)

Mohammad was not author of Quran, “indeed, the verses are a reminder” because someone already knew, wrote and spelled out Mohammad is deceiver.

Aisha’s book which Mohammad’s intelligent wife did bookkeeping to keep records of all verses from Mohammad for many years was not included in the Quran either; etc.

Mohammad has nothing much to do with the Quran.

It seems you are a deceiver. You bullshit very badly.

 

[mhmtas63]

There are things in religions that we cannot prove especially the spiritual claim. We often use the phrase – it’s a matter of faith. Both hold true in Christianity and Islam when they happened. One can quickly see the double standard in argument, when this reason (a matter of faith) is being used to justify one religion but not the other.

The physical aspects probably could be argued upon, like Paul being blinded by the shining light from heaven and that he needed to be healed by Ananias so that he could see.

And that the men who journeyed with him to Damascus stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. (Acts 9:7)

In Islam, Muhammad being pressed by the angel Gabriel that he could not breathe is another example.

Then there is the allegedly historical fact – like Waraka’s role in Muhammad’s revelation. As I said, the background to this cannot be easily dismissed and that it certainly played significant role in Muhammad early career as a prophet.

Then God call to that words: Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah .” But if they turn away, then say, “Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him].”

 

[Reuben_J]

Then God call to that words: Say, “O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah .”

Christians have no problem with this part, which they would agree with.

I think the problem is more with Islam, which misunderstood the Christian doctrine of the Triune God.

The contention here is how could Allah, if indeed it was Allah, make the error about Christian belief in the Trinity? Or could it be just from the wisdom of the Nestorian monk by the name of Waraka?

 

[toddy]

Maybe I am only one of Christians with the least knowledge about Muslim here because I never bother study Muslim or Quran.

I discern many hiddens inside the Quran, and interfaith is finished to me. The Savior cant save their souls.

 

[mhmtas63]

The contention here is how could Allah, if indeed it was Allah, make the error about Christian belief in the Trinity? Or could it be just from the wisdom of the Nestorian monk by the name of Waraka?

It is very nonsense to insist on thought that Muhammad has taken something from Waraka. That is not true. The doctrines were established by people and if there is a wrong thing so it source from people but nod God. You talk as if Trinity was revealed by God but not.

If you do not understand exactly I will repeat it for thousand times. Qur’an is direct words of God!

 

[theCardinalbird]

You talk as if Trinity was revealed by God but not.

With all due respect, we in fact do believe the Trinity was revealed by God, and it may not say “Trinity” specifically in our Holy Scriptures, but in reading scripture it clearly shows God’s Trinitarian nature

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

If you do not understand exactly I will repeat it for thousand times. Qur’an is direct words of God!

We don’t believe this. At all.

 

[Benadam]

Through a vision! How could Paul prove that? Notice! Paul is enemy of Jesus and His followers. He could not stop followers! Perhaps just tactics!

He must have proven it. Proving it to those he persecuted would be much more difficult than proving it to anyone else in the world. He won their trust, no one doubted or denied it at the time. Just another profound work of God denied by those who want to lay claim to Him. Ever notice everyone seems to want to include Jesus in their religion? Does that happen to the founder of any other religion?

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Qur’an is words of God directly but not Muhammad’s.

Respectfully speaking, the Quran teaches about a heretical trinity. Can you please inform the board who got it wrong? When you say “Allah” words are directly recorded in the Quran? Or was it Muhammad’s words who incorrectly got the trinity of persons wrong? When the Quran reveals the trinity of persons to be God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Blessed Virgin Mary?
I believe God cannot lie nor can God be deceived. Why would the Quran incorrectly deny a trinity that never exists nor is ever believed in by True Catholic (Christians).
Ironically, we Catholics also reject the heretical trinity the Quran reveals. That does not mean that all Muslims should NOT deny or reject the True Trinity divinely revealed by God to our humanity. Because the Quran never denies the real and True blessed Trinity.
In short, Muslims reject the same trinity we Catholic’s reject, that is revealed from the Quran = Allah.
Can you reveal who was it that declared a false trinity revealed in the Quran?
I await your answer.
Peace be with you

 

[Reuben_J]

In Quran it says the Trinity is made up of Father, Jesus and Mary. This is not what the Trinity is.

Regardless of what you think the Quran is, I do not think God made a mistake on this; whether you agree with the Trinity or not, this is wrong.

And I do not think the real God could be wrong on information like this, especially since by the seventh century Christianity major doctrines were already established. Unless of course if one got his information wrong. And from where did the mistake came from? Uhmm.

 

[mhmtas63]

In Quran it says the Trinity is made up of Father, Jesus and Mary. This is not what the Trinity is.

Regardless of what you think the Quran is, I do not think God made a mistake on this; whether you agree with the Trinity or not, this is wrong.

And I do not think the real God could be wrong on information like this, especially since by the seventh century Christianity major doctrines were already established. Unless of course if one got his information wrong. And from where did the mistake came from? Uhmm.

God do not accept any (Indeed there is no any other god but only God) associate in divinity not that it matters to be a human or an angel. Holy Spirit is angel Gabriel and God notice not to attribute an angel divine attributes:

80- Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims? Ali-Imran(3)