Islamic teaching questions

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

Wudu is not baptism , and if it is the Islam version, it is a wrong way to baptize . You make me want to laugh when you mentioned ablution as baptism.

I just tried to show that both religious laws of Islam and Christians were reevaled by God. Otherwise your religion to you and our for us. Muslim do not need baptism as you definite because Islam has perfect form of worships.

This is WUDU, your baptism.

Wuḍūʾ (Arabic: الوضوء‎ al-wuḍūʼ [wʊˈdˤuːʔ]) is the Islamic procedure for washing parts of the body, a type of ritual purification. Wudu involves washing the hands, mouth, nostrils, arms, head and feet with water and is an important part of ritual purity in Islam. What activities require wuḍūʾ, what rituals constitute it and what breaks or invalidates it are governed by fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence) and specifically its rules concerning hygiene.

Wuḍūʾ is typically done in preparation for formal prayers (salat) and also before handling and reading the Qur’an. Impurifying activities that invalidate wudu include urination, defecation, flatulence, deep sleep, light bleeding and sexual intercourse.

This is not what Jesus said about Baptism. You may wonder why the contradiction/differences, if Muslims believe in Jesus.

If Jesus is the prophet, how can my religion is mine, and yours is yours? After all, we believe in the same person. How is that our respective belief different?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

It doesn’t need to. It openly denies the divinity of Christ and the whole Christian religion. The catechism doesn’t even need to mention that the Qu’ran is hogwash.

Muslims have no obligation to do Baptize.

Jesus says “Do this.” How is he a prophet if following his commands isn’t something you do?

 

[FreeMe]

The word ‘Baptism’ comes from the Greek ‘Baptein’ which means ‘to plunge, to immerse, or to wash.’ It was an ancient custom to wash or to make ablution.

Islam has preserved this tradition in the form of ablution and ritual Ghusl for purification purpose.

Allah mentions in the Qur’an that He made water a source for purification. Allah Almighty says, “And He it is Who sends the winds, glad tidings heralding His mercy, and We send down purifying water from the sky.” (Al-Furqan 25:48)

Like all other Prophets of Allah, Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) also washed himself to purify himself. During his time, Yahya (John, the Baptist) used to call people to repent and purify themselves in the River Jordan.

It is mentioned that Jesus also went to him and took a bath of purification (Mark 1:9-11).

After that Allah appointed Jesus as His prophet and messenger and he began preaching Allah’s Message. Jesus was a servant of Allah. He used to pray and for his prayers he must be purifying himself.

Jews in his time also used to do a lot of ritual washings. The Old Testament speaks a lot about the use of water for the purpose of purification. (See Numbers 19:1-22; Leviticus 14-15-16:24-28)

After Jesus left this world, Paul became a leader of some Christians. It was he who gave a new interpretation of Jesus’ Baptism. He told them that when a person takes a Baptism in water, actually he immerses himself in Jesus’ blood and dies with him and then he is resurrected like Jesus into a new person. (See Romans 6:3-4).

Paul gave a new definition of Baptism. For him, it was something to do with Original Sin and then the alleged death and resurrection of Jesus. (See Colossians 2:12).

For Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) and his followers the Baptism was just a bath or ablution to purify themselves physically, ritually and spiritually, but, with Pauline interpretation, it became a symbol of belief in Jesus’ so-called death and resurrection.

Muslims, accept the early tradition and that is what Islam has preserved and reaffirmed. They do not accept the later interpretation and doctrinal aberrations.

 

[mhmtas63]

The word ‘Baptism’ comes from the Greek ‘Baptein’ which means ‘to plunge, to immerse, or to wash.’ It was an ancient custom to wash or to make ablution.

Islam has preserved this tradition in the form of ablution and ritual Ghusl for purification purpose.

Allah mentions in the Qur’an that He made water a source for purification. Allah Almighty says, “And He it is Who sends the winds, glad tidings heralding His mercy, and We send down purifying water from the sky.” (Al-Furqan 25:48)

Like all other Prophets of Allah, Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) also washed himself to purify himself. During his time, Yahya (John, the Baptist) used to call people to repent and purify themselves in the River Jordan.

It is mentioned that Jesus also went to him and took a bath of purification (Mark 1:9-11).

After that Allah appointed Jesus as His prophet and messenger and he began preaching Allah’s Message. Jesus was a servant of Allah. He used to pray and for his prayers he must be purifying himself.

Jews in his time also used to do a lot of ritual washings. The Old Testament speaks a lot about the use of water for the purpose of purification. (See Numbers 19:1-22; Leviticus 14-15-16:24-28)

After Jesus left this world, Paul became a leader of some Christians. It was he who gave a new interpretation of Jesus’ Baptism. He told them that when a person takes a Baptism in water, actually he immerses himself in Jesus’ blood and dies with him and then he is resurrected like Jesus into a new person. (See Romans 6:3-4).

Paul gave a new definition of Baptism. For him, it was something to do with Original Sin and then the alleged death and resurrection of Jesus. (See Colossians 2:12).

For Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) and his followers the Baptism was just a bath or ablution to purify themselves physically, ritually and spiritually, but, with Pauline interpretation, it became a symbol of belief in Jesus’ so-called death and resurrection.

Muslims, accept the early tradition and that is what Islam has preserved and reaffirmed. They do not accept the later interpretation and doctrinal aberrations.

I cannot write what I exactly thought because of poor English.

 

[mhmtas63]

If Jesus is the prophet, how can my religion is mine, and yours is yours? After all, we believe in the same person. How is that our respective belief different?

Some prophets have a distinct religion and some maintained on a previous prophet. Islam is a distinct Sharia(religious laws). We do not reject religion of Jesus but we have no obligation. Yet some doctrines which established later make it difficult to accept. I reject these parts. Those parts to you and what revealed to Muhammad to us. You can accept revelation came to Muhammad also.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

After Jesus left this world, Paul became a leader of some Christians. It was he who gave a new interpretation of Jesus’ Baptism. He told them that when a person takes a Baptism in water, actually he immerses himself in Jesus’ blood and dies with him and then he is resurrected like Jesus into a new person. (See Romans 6:3-4).

I assume you have evidence of such an assertion.

For Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) and his followers the Baptism was just a bath or ablution to purify themselves physically, ritually and spiritually

Ah yes, because Jesus totally would have said what he did in the Gospel if baptism was supposed to just be ritual washing.

We do not reject religion of Jesus but we have no obligation. Yet some doctrines which established later make it difficult to accept. I reject these parts. Those parts to you and what revealed to Muhammad to us. You can accept revelation came to Muhammad also.

I cannot accept that God spoke to Muhammad because, quite frankly, the revelation makes little sense. Why does the bible contradict the Qu’ran on baptism and the divinity of Christ?

 

[mhmtas63]

Why does the bible contradict the Qu’ran on baptism and the divinity of Christ?

There is no any conflict on Baptism. Baptism is a ritual in Christianity. But divinity of Jesus! Bible and Jesus do not claim or teach such thing. That issue has always been argued in Christianity. That is a philosophical argument and just could be through philosophical interpretations. Divinity of Jesus were not taught by Jesus himself and not by his disciples. It was infused by Paul who has never seen Jesus. If Paul did not see Jesus how his teaching could be valid on that very importand issue. Faith must be through revelation but not through strained and philosophical interpretations.

Qur’an and Bible never contradict. That is a lie and an injury. Yet we have no original text of Gospel. Ofcourse Qur’an may contradict with philosophical thoughts. But claiming that God contradict with self is nonsense. Is there any direct sentence about divinity of Jesus? No. But just conjectures.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Bible and Jesus do not claim or teach such thing. That issue has always been argued in Christianity. That is a philosophical argument and just could be through philosophical interpretations. Divinity of Jesus were not taught by Jesus himself and not by his disciples. It was infused by Paul who has never seen Jesus.

Yeah, because all of the biblical passages talking about how Jesus is the Word and the Word is God are just fakes.

Also, Paul wasn’t the only one. Saint Peter writes in the Second Letter of Saint Peter, “Simon Peter, servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained equal faith with us in the justice of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ.” Translation from Douay-Rheims Bible. Peter saw Jesus, and still calls him God.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Qur’an is direct word of God. How many times should I repeat?

I repeat what is revealed how the Quran was revealed;

1. Quran is direct word of God
2. Gabriel (a holy spirit) forced (beat) Muhammad (3xtimes) to recite Quran
   3.Quran is supposed to reject the Blessed True Trinity which the Quran never denies, except through later Imam commentators to the Quran

Do I have this correct thus far?

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Ok, now that is blashphemy to proclaim a prophet in Islam such as Muhammad to be the greatest over the Word of God Himself Jesus Christ.
Is the religion of all Muslims of Islam? Can you please clarify this?

 

[mhmtas63]

Yeah, because all of the biblical passages talking about how Jesus is the Word and the Word is God are just fakes.

1:1	In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2	The same was in the beginning with God.

Only John book has those verses and there are many different interpretations of verses. Yet it is not said Jesus was God but word was God. It is true that Jesus is called as “word of God”. That means Jesus is result of word of God. Then word of God became flesh means Jesus were created without a father but direct with order(word) of God. Because in verse it is also said two times that the word was with God.

Jesus is called as “Kalimatullah”(word of God" in Islam. Because God created Jesus without a father and for God to do that is very easy and just an order “Be”(which is a word) is enough.

82- His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, “Be,” and it is. Ya-Sin(36)

God in Qur’an notice about attributing Jesus(“word”) divine attributes! I think that is best interpretation of John 1

171- O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. An-Nisa(4)

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Yet it is not said Jesus was God but word was God. It is true that Jesus is called as “word of God”. That means Jesus is result of word of God.

No, it means that Jesus is God. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God.

God in Qur’an notice about attributing Jesus(“word”) divine attributes! I think that is best interpretation of John 1

I honestly don’t care what the Qur’an says. You haven’t proven at all that your Islamic biblical interpretations merit attention or belief. The Qur’an cannot prove its own merit.

I also like how you conveniently avoided acknowledging Peter calling Jesus God.

 

[FreeMe]

No, it means that Jesus is God. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God.

Christians believe that God the Father in human form, that is why they believe Jesus is God or the Son of God. In contrast to the teachings of Islam that Say: He, Allah is One. Allah is He on Whom all depend. He begets not, nor is He begotten; And none is like Him.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

No, we don’t believe Jesus is God the Father. Jesus is God the Son. I don’t care what Islam teaches, at least as long as it isn’t supported.

 

[FreeMe]

No, we don’t believe Jesus is God the Father. Jesus is God the Son. I don’t care what Islam teaches, at least as long as it isn’t supported.

The same thing Muslims do not care about Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God or He is God. Because they can not prove the truth.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

The Gospels, Peter, and Paul all say that Jesus is God, but yeah we totally can’t prove it. You have us there!

 

[FreeMe]

The Gospels, Peter, and Paul all say that Jesus is God, but yeah we totally can’t prove it. You have us there!

To know whether Jesus was crucified or not, and has also ascended to Heaven, you need to be like him. Prove the truth that has been written in your book, not just believing.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

I don’t understand you. What do you mean, “be like him?”

 

[FreeMe]

I don’t understand you. What do you mean, “be like him?”

I mean, like Jesus who can ascend to Heaven, you do not have to die crucified.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Why would that matter? I don’t have to be crucified to know that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead into heaven.