Islamic teaching questions

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toddy - According to general Islamic consensus, Aisha was 6yrs old when Muhammad betrothed her, and 9yrs of age when he ‘de-flowered’ her. In Aisha’s own narration, she is said to have mentioned playing with her friends, and then Muhammad, aged around 54 at the time, turning up and taking her into a house and having his ‘way’, and then leaving her to carry on playing with her friends. Not sure how ‘matured’ that has Aisha, especially emotionally and intellectually? Those dirty old men in the Yemen who still tend to ‘marry’ very young girls, claim they are using Muhammad as their model. Muhammad certainly appears to be a man well grounded in carnality. If he lived in the UK or the US today, and behaved as such, he would be called a paedophile and banged up in prison if caught and convicted.

Oh, I can recall seeing an Islamic history, that mentioned Aisha having some sort of hair loss problem - it could well have been as a result of alopetia {sorry about the spelling], a main cause being stress and worry. Being de-flowered at a young age by a much older man, and then having to live with him, and his known and recorded temper/anger tantrums, seems to fit the situation.
 
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mhmtas - Well, have it your way, but remember that there is usually some divergence between perceived/claimed truth, and the REAL AND ETERNAL TRUTH. It is mostly those who genuinely search for the REAL TRUTH, and who constantly pray for discernment, who are most often in the right ‘ball-park’.

Oh, do you believe that Mecca is the place of Muhammad’s birth, and that it was a very fertile and well populated and watered trading centre and a major hub of caravan routes - also that a ‘Ka’aba’ has existed there since the time of Hagar and Ishmael? if this is the case, then historical and archeological and botanic and demographic evidence appear to go against you. Becca/‘Mecca’, if you see Dan Gibson’s presentation on YouTube fits Petra as being the place described in the Qur’an much much better.
 
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Capta(name removed by moderator)rudeman said:
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mhmtas63:
For a compare Jesus merely were ascended to Heavens but Muhammad were ascended more more beyond limits.

Muhammad is the most high prophet. Jesus was one of great prophet. And Muslims also accept Jesus and all other prophets.
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That’s absolutely ridiculous. In no way was Muhammad superior in morality to Jesus Christ. The self-declared primary of Muhammad is one of the many reasons I see Islam as a massive lie.
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Muhammad at aged of about fifty had sex with a nine year old child. He was betrothed yo Aisha when she was six and had sex with her when she was nine. Bofore that he could not have sex with her as she was too small but he got sexual gratification from the little Aishah by rubbimg his organ against her thighs until he ejaculated. The Muslims call the practice ‘thighing’.

Little Aishah had to wash Muhammad’s semen from his garment after the thighing session. Just imagine a little child exposed to this sexual practice from a so called prophet.

I think a prophet should not do that kind of sexual pervertness and there is certainly no morality about that.
 
toddy - I thank you for that last sentiment. I also wish ‘via con Dios’ to yourself, and indeed that the rest of mankind may find it - that ‘peace of God that passeth all understanding’.
 
Your welcome Niblo; I would like to thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share my Christian faith and clear up any Muslim misunderstandings from the Quran, when the Quran rejects heretical Christian views of trinity and a misinformed view of what is eternally begotten of God, while at the same time the Quran never rejects or clarifies my Christian faith in the True Blessed Trinity of Persons proceeding God’'s divine revelation in the Personal Presence of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit in space and time, when the Essence of God does not proceed.

I find because the Quran does not clarify or reject a correct Trinity or a correct understanding of the Father eternally begets the Son. It is the Muslims who invent or take on an argument against such Christian Truth, that misleads and misinforms the correct interpretation of the Quran.

Thus it is good that we engage in such dialogue here, in order to inform and correct any misgivings or misunderstandings by Muslims forcing the Quran to reject a True Christian faith, which the Quran does not clarify to reject. The Quran only rejects a heretical/false Christian view which no Christian believes in.
Peace be with you
 
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mhmtas63 said:
I think John did not use that word as you suppose that God take another counterpart in Deity.
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Hello mhmtas63. I agree with you. The Gospel of John never indicates that “God take another counterpart in Deity”. How did you come up with that carnal understanding of God taking on a different Deity? God is eternal, God does not take on another Deity. I hope in our dialogue, this can clear up your misunderstanding when John states; "John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
mhmtas63 said:
God’s wisdom is eternal and as eternally God decide to create Jesus without a father. Let’s term that decision or will of God as begetting
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I have to object to your false assumption of the Father eternally begets the Son. You have now introduced a new subject of the “Will of God”, when we are discussing the Father eternally begets the Son.

For clarification; From a theological and not a professed faith, we do not say; “God eternally begets a son”, this is a carnal begetting which the Quran hints at and rejects. Yet, your Muslim interpretation, argues that the Quran rejects all forms of begetting. How can the Deity of the Quran reject something it does not know, teach or reveal?
mhmtas63 said:
If God begot Jesus eternally but that do not make Jesus divine.
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God did not “begot Jesus eternally.” I must correct your misunderstanding. The Father eternally begets the Son. When we speak of the Father eternally begetting the Son, we have not engaged our subject of the Father eternally begetting the Son within the confines of space and time, we are speaking of that which is eternal God, who lives.
By the time we get to Jesus, creation is created and fallen. God sends His Word who is the eternal Son of the Father, because the Son comes from the Father. Here is a layman example for you; When God speaks from eternity, that which proceeds from God is God, Here is the Nicene Creed professing; "the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made." and that which proceeds from the Voice of God, Is God’s Word and that Word of God became flesh, incarnated in the Presence of Jesus Christ.

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mhmtas63 said:
By begetting what I understand is choicing and bring into being or create. By that meaning God choiced Muhammad eternally as prophet.
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Do you or the Quran pretend to know the ways of the Eternal God?
God created all of creation by His Word, it was not by “choicing” or pretending to know what God is thinking in eternity. We can agree that God in heaven knows all things past, present and future. But let us not pretend to think, we know what God is thinking eternally in the present.

I respect your own definition of a begetting and it is a watered down version of a carnal begetting.

But, know that your definition of begetting is never a Catholic Christian belief when we profess that the Father eternally begets the Son. God speaks, God’s Word is sent into space and time, God’s Word is incarnated in the Personal Presence of God in the Son divinely revealed by the Angel Gabriel to be born of a Virgin and she is to call Him Jesus, Emmanuel = God with us.

God was not “choicing” Jesus to be born. God sent His Word to become flesh, incarnated Jesus Christ. We profess here that Jesus is Fully Human and Fully God present in time and space.

Peace be with you
 
mhmtas63 said:
Jesus was a human and had a human soul. Holy Spirit is an angel and in Bible it is said Holy Spirit took form of a dove. Well… I do not know what to say… Claiming a human and dove to be god! I think there is no much thing to discuss… I hope God forgive our sins. Amîn!
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We agree, Jesus was fully human in every way except sin.
The Holy Spirit is not an angel. A definition of an angel is a spirit created by God. The Holy Spirit is God, and the Holy Spirit proceeds Life to all creation including the angel Gabriel, who is holy spirit, but the angel Gabriel is a created spirit and Gabriel is never the Spirit of God, when God is Spirit.
I hope your Quran does not make such a ridiculous claim, “Claiming a human and dove to be a god!” Does your Quran reject another foreign faith that is never believed in?
I have been praying for you.
Peace be with you
 
FreeMe said:
Prove to me that God the Father exists?
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That is a beautiful question to contemplate. Firstly, do you know what it is to Love someone, or to be Loved by Someone? Because you and I were created in the divine image and likeness of God (Trinity), we have been parted this beautiful divine gift from God the Father who is LOVE Eternally Existing (past, present, future). So Long as you and I can Love and Love exist, the Father exist.

What proceeds in the blessed Trinity of Persons is Love. That is why Jesus loves the Father and the Father Loves the Son, in this divine eternal Love proceeding is the eternal Holy Spirit. Do you know why scientist are so impressed with creation and it’s revealed perfection’s, which follows the divine creation laws of the Father? Because God the Father sent His Word = Son LOVE into all of creation. The answer to the scientific question of why? is Because the Father’s Love is eternal, and you and I can and do experience the Father’s Love, and if Love exist, so does the principle lover who is Love, God the Father.

It is said; “the most beautiful things seen, are seen with the heart”.

I can gift you with a tremendous amount of proof of God the Father’s existence, which is not profitable here. The following scripture I present to you will suffice for all of scripture.
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I pray you read the following scripture and contemplate God’s Word here, John writes to the believing first century Christians who believe the same way I believe today about the Father who sends the Son in Love.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist,* that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
7 * Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God.
8 Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this way the love of God was revealed to us: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might have life through him.
10 In this is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as expiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also must love one another.
12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.
13* This is how we know that we remain in him and he in us, that he has given us of his Spirit.

14 Moreover, we have seen and testify that the Father sent his Son as savior of the world.

15 Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him and he in God.

16 We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us.
God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
17 In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgment because as he is, so are we in this world.i
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
19 We love because he first loved us.
20 If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God* whom he has not seen.
21 This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Peace be with you
 
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FreeMe said:
Already 2,000 years passed no one claimed they had seen the Father through Jesus.
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Every time I simply look upon a Crucifix, I see the Father’s Love through Jesus Christ, any time during the Liturgy of the Mass in the hearing of God’s eternal Word, I hear the Father’s voice speaking, every time in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, I know the Presence of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity are present, and It is ONLY through Jesus real and substantial Presence, that I am able to enter into the Father’s Presence with the Holy Spirit confirming the Presence in my mind, heart, soul and spirit.

I agree with Rueben, Millions upon Millions do both on earth and in heaven.
Peace be with you
 
Look upthread. They already got an Olympic gold for their mental gymnastics on that one.
 
Ah, but Jesus didn’t do mental or linguistic ‘gymnastics’.
 
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