Islam's Conception of God

[inJESUS]

Salaam Angelos;

You are misusing the Big Grin!
Angelos;
You picked up the bad choice.
Mohammad did not have to go hundreds of years back, the One who created Mary and Jesus told him: “This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).” [Noble Qur’an 003.044].

 

[Montalban]

No Montalban, the link I gave is to an educational site, take a look for yourself.

Is this why you stopped responding to my questions?

Salaam.
Joseph.

Submission, to you too!

 

[inJESUS]

Continued.

Yes I listened; this is a beautiful definition, but is unfortunately wrong in the context of the Christian faith!

 

[exoflare]

You realize of course that Joseph doesn’t really give a flip about any of this? Like all Muslims, he’s just wildly firing off verbal arrows in hope that one of them happens to hit a bulls-eye.

 

[inJESUS]

You realize of course that Joseph doesn’t really give a flip about any of this? Like all Muslims, he’s just wildly firing off verbal arrows in hope that one of them happens to hit a bulls-eye.

well Joseph is willing to give and take…for someone who believed all his life that Jesus had to speak in the cradle, it is difficult for him to accept that Mary was married and Jesus did not speak in the cradle and that this idea is taken from an apocryphal gospel.Will he be convinced? no otherwise he’ll become an apostate. So whatever evidence we give and even if we quote to him the apocryphal gospel, he’ll give a blind eye but well, it’s a forum and he’s our guest it is not frustrating to discuss with him as with many other Muslims who believe we worship 3 gods and who lack basic Christian teachings.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

i don’t see the problem here since they were 12 apostles after Matthias took the place of Judas. So if John says Thomas was not, then Thomas was the missing apostle and hence they were eleven

exoflare:

You realize of course that Joseph doesn’t really give a flip about any of this? Like all Muslims, he’s just wildly firing off verbal arrows in hope that one of them happens to hit a bulls-eye.

There is a problem inJESUS.
The # 12 disciple (Matthias) was elected AFTER Jesus was taken up! (see ACTS 1:10-26)
The disciples were still eleven (including Thomas) after Judas supposedly hanged himself (MT 27:5). When Jesus came to see them after he supposedly rose from his grave the disciples were eleven (that is what Luke, Matthew and Mark say). Therefore and according to John, if Thomas was not with them during Jesus’ first visit after the grave, then they were TEN only and not eleven!

Summary:
-Just after when Jesus was delivered to Pontius Pilate the governor, Judas hang himself (MT 27:5). The disciples then became 11.
-Jesus supposedly rose from his grave and went to see his disciples. They were still 11. This is what Luke, Mark and Matthew say.

• John says that Thomas was not with the disciples when Jesus payed that first visit to his disciples after the grave. If Thomas was not there, therefore tthe number of the disciples was ten and not eleven.
  -Jesus rose up to heaven (ACTS 1:9), the discipples were still 11.
  -The 11 were in the upper room (see ACTS 1:13) to decide to replace Judas. They cast their lots which fell upon Matthias. They became 12 again.

The above problem goes away if you consider Judas the “traitor” to still be a disciple of Jesus after he betrayd him!

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Montalban:

Is this why you stopped responding to my questions?
Submission, to you too!

Greetings Montalban;
Which questions I did not answer you?

In Islam, "When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things. (Noble Qur’an 004.086). You must have something similar in your religion.

Kind Regards.
Joseph.

 

[eleonardo]

No Montalban, the link I gave is to an educational site, take a look for yourself.

Salaam.
Joseph.

And I appreciate it.
Pax vobiscum!

 

[eleonardo]

They have ‘strong’ and ‘weak’ Hadiths. And a so-called ‘science’ of Hadith.

The interesting thins is that the Shi’a recognise that the promise of Mut’a (temporary marriage) is still active, as it was never abrogated in the Koran (Sunni apologists are quick to point to a verse in the Koran that has nothing to do with Mut’a and pretend that this covers it).

Hi Montalban,
I must have missed this post!
You raise an interesting point, which is precisely why I asked about Hadiths in the first place. Sunni and Shi’ite don’t seem to agree on all the Hadiths. This is why I asked for a explenation about them. Im afraid I’m still not sure what the difference in interpretation is.
Joseph, perhaps you care to elaborate more on this issue?
Thank you both.
Pax.

 

[eleonardo]

Greetings Montalban;
Which questions I did not answer you?

In Islam, "When a (courteous) greeting is offered you, meet it with a greeting still more courteous, or (at least) of equal courtesy. Allah takes careful account of all things. (Noble Qur’an 004.086). You must have something similar in your religion.

Kind Regards.
Joseph.

I vaguely remember a post by Rodrigo of a Hadith (I think) where it stated otherwise. But I can’t remember :banghead:
sigh These Hadiths keep haunting me!

 

[Montalban]

Hi Montalban,
I must have missed this post!
You raise an interesting point, which is precisely why I asked about Hadiths in the first place. Sunni and Shi’ite don’t seem to agree on all the Hadiths.

What don’t the agree to with respect to Hadith?

 

[Montalban]

Greetings Montalban;
Which questions I did not answer you?

Post #61

 

[Joseph_Alison]

eleonardo:

I must have missed this post!
You raise an interesting point, which is precisely why I asked about Hadiths in the first place. Sunni and Shi’ite don’t seem to agree on all the Hadiths. This is why I asked for a explenation about them. Im afraid I’m still not sure what the difference in interpretation is.
Joseph, perhaps you care to elaborate more on this issue?
Thank you both.
Pax.

Salaam Eleonardo;
This is probably not right place to elaborate on the temporary marriage issue. I am a Sunni Muslim, we don’t practice it.
I give you two links one is the Shia view and the other one is the Sunni view so you can read both sides of the story.

Note to Montalban: The above links are not Islamic Apologetics sites.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[eleonardo]

What don’t the agree to with respect to Hadith?

The Sunni and Shi’ite don’t always agree on certain Hadith’s to be true (some of Bukhari for example). My understanding is that Shi’ite are a bit more “conservative”, if you will. But this is just the question I want answered. So I was hoping a Muslim would enlighten me on this matter.
Pax.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Montalban:

Post #61

I will do Allah’s willing.
Sorry Montalban I should have missed it. I hope you understand I am probably the only Muslim in this thread, and I am engaged in many discussions.

Best Regards
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

eleonardo:

I vaguely remember a post by Rodrigo of a Hadith (I think) where it stated otherwise. But I can’t remember :banghead:
sigh These Hadiths keep haunting me!

Yes, I too remember that it has been brought up and I remember that an explanation was given. Mainly, some of the Muslim’s enemies used to greet them " Asam Alaikum" which means “Death be upon you” instead of “Assalam Alaikum” which means " Peace be on you". The Muslims complained to the Prophet (PBUH) about it and he told them to respond “and on you what you said"

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam FillTheVoid;

FillTheVoid:

Man I can only imagine how happy and enlightened you would become if you could take that step of faith.
It’s saddens me, it truely does.
There are so many dedicated and faithful Muslims out there, if only they could all experience the love of God.
Once you taste the truth you’ll never turn back.

I thank you for you sincere words. I know this is coming from your hearth, a Christ like hearth.
Love is a very good thing indeed, but how do you know that Muslims are missing the love of God?

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[eleonardo]

Yes, I too remember that it has been brought up and I remember that an explanation was given. Mainly, some of the Muslim’s enemies used to greet them " Asam Alaikum" which means “Death be upon you” instead of “Assalam Alaikum” which means " Peace be on you". The Muslims complained to the Prophet (PBUH) about it and he told them to respond “and on you what you said"

Salaam.
Joseph.

Ah yes, that was it. I was mixing things up, forgive me.
Since you brought this up, I have a follow up if you don’t mind.
Did God tell Mohamed to respond like that, or was it from Mohamed himself only?
Pax tecum brother Muslim.

 

[inJESUS]

There is a problem inJESUS.
The # 12 disciple (Matthias) was elected AFTER Jesus was taken up! (see ACTS 1:10-26)
The disciples were still eleven (including Thomas) after Judas supposedly hanged himself (MT 27:5). When Jesus came to see them after he supposedly rose from his grave the disciples were eleven (that is what Luke, Matthew and Mark say). Therefore and according to John, if Thomas was not with them during Jesus’ first visit after the grave, then they were TEN only and not eleven!
.

correct my mistake sorry. Indeed Mattias was elected after. I had to recheck John’s account. John talked about 3 appearances of Jesus after the resurrection: to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to the seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.So John talked about 3 different appearances, that’s why you were confused. Check John 20, all of it and not 101 Bible contradictions

Are we done with the virgin birth ?

 

[Joseph_Alison]

correct my mistake sorry. Indeed Mattias was elected after. I had to recheck John’s account. John talked about 3 appearances of Jesus after the resurrection: to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to the seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.So John talked about 3 different appearances, that’s why you were confused. Check John 20.

I checked Johna gain. No, I am not confused.
"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was NOT with them when Jesus came. [JN 20:24].
They were eleven, not twelve! Remember that Judas hang himself, so he was gone, the #12 was yet to be selected.
May be it has to do with the fact that in John there is no trace of the Judas’ death, so in John’s Gospel writer mind they were still twelve.

Are we done with the virgin birth ?

Only if you want to.

Salaam.
Joseph.