Islam's Plagiarized Christian Origins

[DeusVult09]

According to the Jews, Christians is Judaism heresy. According to Jesus, Judaism in Jesus’ time is a heresy to Moses’ Judaism, with so many Miznah and Talbuts which make the away from the intended law of God.

hi

yes your right.My point was that islam was influenced by Christianity to such an extent that it is a heretical off shoot based upon both mainstream and heretical christian ( Gnostic, Nestorian etc) beliefs and teachings which made their way into the koran.

 

[cthulhubryan]

I Have studied the origins of the Koran and many Islamic beliefs and doctrines and have come to the conclusion that Islam heavily plagiarized many Christian texts which I will systematically discuss exposing the Koran’s entirely human and plagiarized origins. This post will be very lengthy but I desire to share all my research with CAF so bear with me.The Koran was written in the 7th century and contains many tales which come from far earlier Christian texts.

For it is not given to the devil to have the power to create, only to twist creation.

 

[cthulhubryan]

It is also interesting to note that Muslims use the Gospel of Barnabas when arguing with Christians. But that is actually circular logic, because the Gospel of Barnbas was made by a Muslim.

Also interesting to note is that Islam is closely related to Judaism. Why is this? Because a lot of its beliefs are taken from Jewish texts and legends.

You must remember that Mahomet desired to be known as a Jewish prophet. It was only after this failed that he began attacking caravans and became the murdering tyrant that is his only true legacy.

 

[DeusVult09]

You must remember that Mahomet desired to be known as a Jewish prophet. It was only after this failed that he began attacking caravans and became the murdering tyrant that is his only true legacy.

yes your right there Mohammed did try to be a Jewish prophet and get the Jews on side by praying to Jerusalem and having koran verses which were very tolerant of Jews but when the Jews rejected Mohammad this all changed and the qibla or direction of prayer changed to towards Mecca and much more anti-Semitism and revilement of the Jews entered into the Koran. This ulitamtely climaxed in the murder of the 900 Jews of the Banu Quraiza

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

its a fact that Christianity is a Judaism heresy. it plagiarized so much to such an extent I cannot believe otherwise.

if we Muslims believe that our God is different than Jews and Christians God …then yes this is a major problem…but no ,it has no effect since our God and your God is the same one God

Actually it didn’t plagiarize it since: 1) it stemmed from Judaism, as a fulfillment of Messianic prophecies, and 2) when the New Testament quoted the Old Testament, it was known to be a quote, and not the apostles going, “This is my original work!”

As for the Muslims believing the same God…that’s not true, I’m afraid.

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. [1 John 4:2-3]

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [2 John 1:7]

If Allah taught the Muslims that Christ was not the Incarnate Word nor the Son of God, then it can’t come from the Christian God.

 

[Hadi]

As for the Muslims believing the same God…that’s not true, I’m afraid.
.

I meant for us, Muslims , we say Our God is the same God ,so saying Islam plagiarized Christianity has no effect on us …if we Muslims believed in a different God (that is ,we Muslims say the God of the Jews is different than our God,then yes ,one would agree with the plagiarism accusation)

Again, i am speaking on behalf of the Muslims ,not the Christians

 

[mark_a]

Hello Deus Vult09,

That’s an impressive amount of work! I’m going to save it as reference material.

I’ve read that Muhammed was influenced by Nestorians. Can you substantiate?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I meant for us, Muslims , we say Our God is the same God ,so saying Islam plagiarized Christianity has no effect on us …if we Muslims believed in a different God (that is ,we Muslims say the God of the Jews is different than our God,then yes ,one would agree with the plagiarism accusation)

Again, i am speaking on behalf of the Muslims ,not the Christians

And yet, does it not make sense that, in claiming you believe in the same God as the Jews and Christians, that Islam would be put under theological scrutiny by those two groups? For you cannot simply believe what one man 600 years after the time of Christ says and take it to heart - there has to be some connection.

While I recognize the Muslim belief is that Allah is the same God as the God of Christians and Jews (which the Koran repeats), theologically speaking, it is not a sound argument.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Someone once noted: Islam is basically Arianism run amok!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Someone once noted: Islam is basically Arianism run amok!

I don’t think their beliefs (or more specifically, their Christology) are close to Arianism - I would say they are closer to Nestorianism.

 

[Wesley7]

Christianity itself is not a heresy but the real heretics were those defended their heresy purposefully and with intention. ~ As defined by the Church Fathers in the history of the Church. You can learn,read,and study the Qur’an for yourself.

 

[Wesley7]

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. [1 John 4:2-3]

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [2 John 1:7]
.

Yes, Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

 

[sedonaman]

I Have studied the origins of the Koran and many Islamic beliefs and doctrines and have come to the conclusion that Islam heavily plagiarized many Christian texts which I will systematically discuss exposing the Koran’s entirely human and plagiarized origins. …

This analysis already covers most of your thesis in detail. It even explains why Mohammed had to “plagiarize” Judeo-Christian scriptures; although it doesn’t use the word “plagiarize”, it says it in words to that effect.

 

[sedonaman]

…
It is clear that Mohammad plagiarized many beliefs, teachings, doctrines and stories from Christianity. I have proven so conclusively and Muslims cant deny this irrefutable evidence. …

Have you exchanged posts with planten?

 

[JMJ_coder]

I don’t think their beliefs (or more specifically, their Christology) are close to Arianism - I would say they are closer to Nestorianism.

Nestorianism accepts the Trinity and the divinity of the Son of God. The main heretical belief is their denial of the Hypostatic Union.

On the contrary, Arianism (along with Islam) denies the divinity of Jesus and that only the Father is God. Mohammad was greatly influenced by this heresy when he was inventing Islam.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Nestorianism accepts the Trinity and the divinity of the Son of God. The main heretical belief is their denial of the Hypostatic Union.

On the contrary, Arianism (along with Islam) denies the divinity of Jesus and that only the Father is God. Mohammad was greatly influenced by this heresy when he was inventing Islam.

Actually Arianism believes Jesus to be divine, and Arius would call Jesus “a god,” but what Arius taught that was heretical was that Jesus was part of Creation and not part of the Creator, and argued that He was heteroousios (“of a different substance”) than the Father, rather than the orthodox belief of homoousios (“of the same substance”), hence Arius’ argumentation of there being a time “when the Son was not.” The modern heresies who believe in a form of Arianism are the Jehovah’s Witnesses and to some degree Mormonism (although Mormonism takes it to the level the Gnostics did).

Nestorianism, on the other hand, believed Jesus was simply a man who inherited the Divine Word from God - like a vessel takes in water, you could see. This led to them calling the Virgin Mary the Christotokos (Mother of Christ) rather than the Theotokos (Mother of God). Islam believes that Jesus is a prophet who was given the Word by God, and so many argue that “the Word” in John 1:1 is merely what was given to Christ. Therefore, the Islamic sense of Christology is very similar to Nestorianism

 

[JMJ_coder]

Actually Arianism believes Jesus to be divine, and Arius would call Jesus “a god,” but what Arius taught that was heretical was that Jesus was part of Creation and not part of the Creator, and argued that He was heteroousios (“of a different substance”) than the Father, rather than the orthodox belief of homoousios (“of the same substance”), hence Arius’ argumentation of there being a time “when the Son was not.”

I call that denying the divinity of Jesus. Arius taught that Jesus was a creature specially created to create the rest of creation (if I recall, taken from Plato’s thoughts on the demiurge). He was the ‘son of God’ by adoption not by right or nature and he was of like substance (homoiousios) or different substance (heteroousios) (they changed terminology from time to time). Jesus was also given god-like powers – particularly in helping to create the rest of creation.To be not of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father is to my mind (and the minds of the Church Fathers, such as Saint Athanasius), is a direct denial of Jesus’ full divinity.

Nestorianism, on the other hand, believed Jesus was simply a man who inherited the Divine Word from God - like a vessel takes in water, you could see. This led to them calling the Virgin Mary the Christotokos (Mother of Christ) rather than the Theotokos (Mother of God).

Yes, that is the denial of the Hypostatic Union (and all its variations). But, whereas Arianism tended to emphasis the human side of Jesus (to denying the divinity of Jesus), Nestorianism emphasized the divine side of Jesus (to the denying of the humanity of Jesus – in some variations of the heresy).

Islam believes that Jesus is a prophet who was given the Word by God, and so many argue that “the Word” in John 1:1 is merely what was given to Christ.

I’ve never heard a Muslim claim that the Koran was God.

But, alas, I think we digress too far.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I call that denying the divinity of Jesus. Arius taught that Jesus was a creature specially created to create the rest of creation (if I recall, taken from Plato’s thoughts on the demiurge). He was the ‘son of God’ by adoption not by right or nature and he was of like substance (homoiousios) or different substance (heteroousios) (they changed terminology from time to time). Jesus was also given god-like powers – particularly in helping to create the rest of creation.To be not of the same substance (homoousios) as the Father is to my mind (and the minds of the Church Fathers, such as Saint Athanasius), is a direct denial of Jesus’ full divinity.

Homoiousios was proposed by Eusebius and others to reach a compromise between heteroousios (the Arians) and homoousios (the orthodox). Arians believed Jesus was divine, but not to the level Christians did. Islam, on the other hand, denounces that Christ had anything to do with the essence of God.

Again, most acknowledge modern day Arians to be Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Yes, that is the denial of the Hypostatic Union (and all its variations). But, whereas Arianism tended to emphasis the human side of Jesus (to denying the divinity of Jesus), Nestorianism emphasized the divine side of Jesus (to the denying of the humanity of Jesus – in some variations of the heresy).

I wouldn’t say they emphasized the divine aspect, since they believed the divine side of Jesus didn’t even belong to Jesus. Nestorius, in his letter sent to the council, even argued that Jesus told His disciples “Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up” and not “Destroy my godhead and in three days it will be raised up.”

Again, they called Him the Christ (hence the Virgin Mary was the Christotokos), but not a divine being (or she would be the Theotokos). The anathema given at the Third Ecumenical council was “if anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh).”

I’ve never heard a Muslim claim that the Koran was God.

You don’t understand how Muslims define “the Word.” To quote Saint John Damascene:

And again we say to them: ‘As long as you say that Christ is the Word of God and Spirit, why do you accuse us of being Hetaeriasts? For the word, and the spirit, is inseparable from that in which it naturally has existence. Therefore, if the Word of God is in God, then it is obvious that He is God. If, however, He is outside of God, then, according to you, God is without word and without spirit. Consequently, by avoiding the introduction of an associate with God you have mutilated Him. It would be far better for you to say that He has an associate than to mutilate Him, as if you were dealing with a stone or a piece of wood or some other inanimate object. Thus, you speak untruly when you call us Hetaeriasts; we retort by calling you Mutilators of God.’

 

[DeusVult09]

I meant for us, Muslims , we say Our God is the same God ,so saying Islam plagiarized Christianity has no effect on us …if we Muslims believed in a different God (that is ,we Muslims say the God of the Jews is different than our God,then yes ,one would agree with the plagiarism accusation)

Again, i am speaking on behalf of the Muslims ,not the Christians

yes well Muslims believe that and always say that but in a religious dialogue simply stating such as a proven fact, comes across as a presupposition. If you have a response to my material id like to hear it. Saying Islam plagiarized Christianity doesn’t have an effect upon you if you lose the pre-supposition of Islam’s pre-existence , of having the same god and just examine the Koran critically just as a text in relation to what came before it is clear that there is a strong influence. Islamic scholars have even admitted this.

And saying its all from the same god as if that is some sort of a fact is a logical fallacy. I have chartered not only the sources of the Koran but how Mohammad twisted these sources. The most astonishing finding of my research was that Mohammad’s heaven is not even his own and is from the writings of a Christian saint. How can a Christian saint’s poetry about heaven which he never once claimed to be divinely revealed or to be from god when even he didn’t think it was. He said that its his human interpretation based upon the garden of Eden in Genesis. Not divinely revealed. How can hymns be divinely revealed anyway? Your argument that it all came from god is a straw man as you cant prove that.

How can I trust a prophet who ripped his concept of heaven right from a Christian saint. And this is the only place it could have come from because there are so many similarities. In the bible, the alleged “previous revelation of Allah” heaven is never described like this not once. How do you account for that? So you think this Christian saint was really prophet of Allah? Well that cant be the case because there are no prophets between Mohammad and Jesus. So please explain to me how it works? Especially since St Ephrem was an orthodox Trinitarian.

 

[DeusVult09]

Hello Deus Vult09,

That’s an impressive amount of work! I’m going to save it as reference material.

I’ve read that Muhammed was influenced by Nestorians. Can you substantiate?

yes he was because his 1st wife’s cousin Warraqah was anestorian monk. i havent done an in depth study on it yet. when i do i will post my findings