Isn't eternity in hell a disproportionate punishment?

[DavidKays]

I assume the bolded part refers to civil/secular punishment, right?

PS Davidkays: Please break up your posts into paragraphs. Some people like me have difficulty reading such long posts. Thanks.

I’ll try. I am not sure how to do it. I am not that good on a computer like what buttons to press.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Remember, God doesn’t send anyone to Hell, we send ourselves. Mark

I hear so many people say that. But if you look at the Bible, clearly Jesus the Judge IS sending people to hell. In fact, there are people knocking on the doors of heaven, and Jesus says “depart from me, I don’t know you,” and in other places he says “Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” So yeah, according to the Scriptures, He sends us to hell. Obviously, it’s a response to OUR actions, but still, to leave God out of the equation when it comes to the sending—no way.

 

[TheAdvocate]

By the way, I just want to remind everyone who has graciously posted on this thread that this thread is not question the existence of hell or whether people go there; it is questioning the ETERNITY of hell and whether eternity isn’t a tad harsh.

Just a friendly reminder.

 

[DavidKays]

By the way, I just want to remind everyone who has graciously posted on this thread that this thread is not question the existence of hell or whether people go there; it is questioning the ETERNITY of hell and whether eternity isn’t a tad harsh.

Just a friendly reminder.

If Hell is not eternal than why teach and warn people about it? You know you were not created to question the eternity of Hell. You were created to know and love your Lord. God did not create us so we can be like a Star Trek generation. Creation is serving His purpose so that we can be with Him eternally by loving Him. Hell is only eternal for the devil and his angels. Now they chose not to have God. But for us we have more time to choose. Man though has a bit of time before he can chose. Now God is not going to waste His time if you chose Hell. Everything was created so that it exists with God. Outside Him it " withers and dies ". What is God going to do with those who willfully reject His plan for them? Now you can argue all you want about it but the existence of Hell exists and for some it will be an eternity. You want to exist without God go ahead and try it. See where it will lead to. You want to prove to us and to God that Hell is not eternal than go ahead and try living without Him. To me it was insane that the devil chose this. He did not have to. It was within his power to choose God. But he has to be insane or just plain stupid! Now man has a better chance than what this angel had to go through. We are given this life now to choose. So make up your mind. I really do not think you want to end up like the devil. We are given a great responsibility to begin to love God in this life so let us not waste it.

 

[EmeraldWings]

well, the thing of it is, we already “deserve” hell, no one really “deserves” heaven, God only offers it to us out of His love and mercy, but if we commit a mortal sin, and thereby losing our sanctifying grace, then we leave ourselves, by our own free well, disconnected from God, and subject to the devil,
sin makes us slave to satan, and as such, he has claim of our souls,
but God offers us a way out, He has given us confession, which He would not let someone who truly loves Him go without before dieing(so long as they desired to repent and intended on going)
that is the most important thing, to love God, and that is the difference between heaven and hell, heaven is the place for those who love God to love Him for all eternity,
and hell is the place for those who love themselves or something other than God, who wish to be without God, hell is simply a place completely devoid of God, and God being all love and all goodness, so hell has no love and nothing good in it, which therefore only leaves hate and evil, not merely as a punishment, but as the result of Gods absence.

there is really no excuse, God gives us all the time we need to overcome our sins and weaknesses, and He gives us all the help we need to do it by His grace, and by His teachings which He gives us through His church.
Don’t forget why Jesus came down for us, and who He came down for, He came down to save us, and it’s the sinners who He wishes to save,
now why would God find it so necessary to take such measures as He did, just in order to save us from some temporary punishment? why would He have to die such a horrible death? why take on our sins at all? why institute the sacrament of confession and the Holy Eucharist, and then above all of that, why create earth at all? what would be the point if we would all end up in heaven eventually?
I am not even minutely as intelligent, wise, or knowledgeable as God, but somehow even i understand,
the angels got the same choice, only they had one chance, whereas we have many chances,
the devils did not want to serve God or love Him, and God would not force them to, and it is the same with us, we choose of our own free will to serve God and love Him, and God will not force us to do that,

it sure is convenient to just decide for yourself, “well…i don’t believe hell is forever, and therefore i can do whatever i want.”
but is it rational? not at all, we have to be reasonable, God has told us what we need to do to gain eternal life, keep His commandments, what do you have to fear? the only reason you fear is because you are attached to sin, you want to continue living the way that you do, but because you know God is offended by sin, so you seek some way of consoling yourself…but nothing will truly work, because as long as you are willingly attached to sin, you will be miserable whether you serve God or not…
God is giving you time to change, you can overcome your sins and your attachment to them, you can love God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength, you can be a saint if you sincerely tried, there is nothing stopping you, maybe there are things slowing you down, but by the grace of God, you can do it.

God loves us and knows what will give us peace and joy, but because we are so attached to sin, the transition between sin and sanctity is a tough one, the devil will try to fool us into thinking the straight and narrow path is to unbearable, or impossible to stay on, but we have the saints to prove to us otherwise,

those who wish to believe that there is no hell or that hell is not forever are driven by fear and self-love, but you have nothing to fear, God offers heaven to you, and gives you the means of getting there, there is no excuse, nothing stopping you,
we all have sins and faults, and if you are having alot of trouble overcoming yours, then seek help, and pray.

“To treat your facts with imagination is one thing, to imagine your facts is another.” the belief that hell is not forever has absolutely no evidence to back it up, it is wishful thinking, it’s unreasonable and irrational, we have never been given even an inkling of reason to hold such a belief,
and to believe in it is also very dangerous, because then you would fall quickly and easily into sin, and risk your very life,
whether hell is forever or not(and it most certainly is) wouldn’t you rather err on the side of caution and try to live a good life according to God to ***ensure ***your salvation? if you take the path you are considering now, then you are taking a huge risk, but if you take the path God has laid out for you, then you have nothing to fear.

in my opinion, the only thing that leads to this kind of thinking is a lack of love for God, because those who truly love God and keep His commandments, would not be driven by a fear of hell, but instead a fear of displeasing God…in which case, you just need to pray for an increase in your love for God.

God loves you more than you can imagine, and He will give you everything you need to get to heaven, you have nothing to fear,
to love God and do His will in all things brings such a great peace, don’t deprive yourself of that,
God doesn’t ask us to be perfect in this life, but simply reach for perfection, He only wants us to keep trying and never give up, even when we fall, God is there to help pick you up again.

maybe this will help you - audiosancto.org/

ok, hope this helps, take care.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Not really.
I think another person mentioned this but nobody seems to be ‘hearing’ it.

People seem to think that a mortal sin (even one that a person may have done over a long period, such as an adulterous relationship), because it supposedly only lasted for a ‘finite’ time, can’t be ‘infinitely’ punished.

But the problem is, the mortal sin doesn’t ‘stop’ when the person dies.

Take an adulterous relationship --two unmarried people having sex.

What is the wrong? It isn’t simply the sex --because if two people were married to each other, they could quite rightly have sex together.

The wrong is that these people are not married to each other. And that they know this, and that it is more important to them to have the sex than to do the right thing and obey God.

So. . .with sins, it isn’t necessarily only the action that is wrong in itself–it is the disobedience to God.

And that disobedience is what doesn’t stop with death. Our souls live on. If we die with UNREPENTED MORTAL SIN, we keep on ‘not repenting’ for all eternity.

We keep on sinning for all eternity. . .that’s why an unrepented mortal sin is punished for all eternity.

And that’s why it is a just punishment.

No person who dies in unrepented mortal sin then becomes morally ‘good’ once he is dead. No person who dies in unrepented mortal sin will, after a period of ‘x’ years in hell, suddenly ‘change his mind’, repent and beg forgiveness. And no person who dies in unrepented mortal sin will then be a kind of ‘blank slate’ with no ‘current sin’ who is being punished for billions of years more than the years he sinned.’

Unfortunately since many people find it much more ‘reasonable’ (humanly speaking) to imagine both earth and heaven as existing in ‘time’, and also to think that a ‘dead person’ can’t do anything ‘wrong’, it is very difficult for such people to comprehend the reality that those in hell are still sinning and will sin (freely) for all time. . .

 

[slywakka250]

We keep on sinning for all eternity. . .that’s why an unrepented mortal sin is punished for all eternity.
.

How do we know that we can’t change our mind after death?

Does this mean that effectively our free will stops working after we die?

What good is God’s gift of free will for the great majority of our existence we are not able to use it??

(it seems to me a lot of people aren’t even aware that they are in “eternal danger” many people that I meet day to day seem to never think of hell and I’m jealous of them because they are free from this terrible anxiety (the threat of eternal punishment)) this whole hell thing is just awful if you ask me.

the “eternal” nature of hell is just terrible. Why did God make this game of life to have such high stakes. death comes suddenly and snap of the fingers we’re burning up in hell.

why not give us many lifetimes via reincarnation or some other means, by which we can take as long as we want to either rise to heaven, or descend to hell, and never be stuck anywhere forever. This would seem to be a much more fair system. But I guess God knows best. what I don’t get is why did he do it like this, i.e. make hell eternal?? surely he didn’t have too?? or did he??

 

[DavidKays]

How do we know that we can’t change our mind after death?

Does this mean that effectively our free will stops working after we die?

What good is God’s gift of free will for the great majority of our existence we are not able to use it??

(it seems to me a lot of people aren’t even aware that they are in “eternal danger” many people that I meet day to day seem to never think of hell and I’m jealous of them because they are free from this terrible anxiety (the threat of eternal punishment)) this whole hell thing is just awful if you ask me.

the “eternal” nature of hell is just terrible. Why did God make this game of life to have such high stakes. death comes suddenly and snap of the fingers we’re burning up in hell.

why not give us many lifetimes via reincarnation or some other means, by which we can take as long as we want to either rise to heaven, or descend to hell, and never be stuck anywhere forever. This would seem to be a much more fair system. But I guess God knows best. what I don’t get is why did he do it like this, i.e. make hell eternal?? surely he didn’t have too?? or did he??

You are missing some of his points. You say that you have a free will. But what is true freedom? To choose sin or not to sin. That is not what freedom is. God is free yet God always chooses that which is right. Freedom is not the same as you can sin today and tomorrow you decide not to sin. Freedom is the choice always to do what is right. When you sin that is not freedom or the exercise of your free will but that is license. That there is quite a difference between the free use of your will and license. Freedom is to choose always that which is right. But you sin that is not using your freedom that is really license. Try to understand terminology better. You will always have freedom to choose that which is right. After you die then sin ceases because the Grace of God has been so poured into your soul that you cannot sin anymore but are experiencing the fullness of His Love in such a way that it will be impossible for you to sin anymore. If you are afraid of judgement then the problem is that you do not know how to love. People who know how to love passes judgement. Why do you need to be afraid of this teaching on hell anyway. Love God and stop thinking about yourself. Love is necessary to help you get away from judgement. That is the devil’s trick. To think always about judgement. And people who say they do not give consideration about Hell I will be very careful about that one. St.Maria Faustina wrote in her diary that the majority of people who were in hell did not think there was a hell while living on earth. Paying no consequences to their own sins they were badly led to think that they do not need the church at all and that they need not to change their behaviour at all. This is the masterful trick of the devil to make you think like this. But for those who are trying and learning and come to love God for their existence and thanking Him for this life will not have to enter judgement at all. When you love someone deeply anything is possible, even miracles. Now God did not make Hell eternal. We did that. But what God is doing is to help us and to prevent us from an eternity in hell. If people go there it is their own mistakes and you can’t blame God at all. Gosh has He not done enough to teach and help us. What do you want from Him? Did He not go to the Cross for you? Has He not suffered enough for you? What kind of reponses do you make for all that He has done for you? Complaints! Can’t you see how much love your Lord has for you? He is willing to die a thousand deaths for you and you still want to complain. How can God accept those complaints in Heaven? Have you not understood how much He loves each and everyone of us? Why can’t we think about His Sufferings and His Torments. Why can’t we think about His Beatings and His Thorns. Why can’t we stop thinking about ourselves and see the great sorrow in His Face and try to console Him. Love Him and then you will understand it all.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

How do we know that we can’t change our mind after death? Scripture for one, and the revelation of the Holy Spirit for another. “For it is appointed to a person to die once, and then the judgment.” (Not: ok, die, judgment, but hey, you can change your mind and get judged again).

Does this mean that effectively our free will stops working after we die? No, not at all. The fact that one refuses to change is why we ‘can’t’ change. Think of it this way.
Man: I sinned and I’m not sorry for it.
God: If you repent I will forgive you.
Man: I sinned and I’m not sorry for it. I knew it when I did it, I knew I had the chance to repent before death. I knew that once I died, I would have made the final free will judgment NEVER TO REPENT. I WILL NOT BE SORRY. And no matter when you ask, I will still not repent or be sorry.
You see, the man’s free will is working just fine. Unfortunately, he is using it to persist in sin, knowing full well that God would forgive.

What good is God’s gift of free will for the great majority of our existence we are not able to use it?? You will be free. You will have freely chosen hell for eternity because you will keep on freely choosing to sin. You won’t be ‘forced’ to sin; you will have chosen and you’ll ‘keep on’ choosing.

Actions have consequences. I think you don’t want to believe that people could be so ‘blind’. I think you want to think that a ‘normal’ person would, after ‘time’ (which of course won’t exist as we know it anyway) of punishment would ‘naturally’ repent. I think you want to think God is a big ol blue meanie if he somehow won’t ‘let’ people repent. But it isn’t that God won’t LET people repent. The people themselves will not repent. That is a consequence of their FREE WILL CHOICE which they keep making.

(it seems to me a lot of people aren’t even aware that they are in “eternal danger” many people that I meet day to day seem to never think of hell and I’m jealous of them because they are free from this terrible anxiety (the threat of eternal punishment)) this whole hell thing is just awful if you ask me. But nobody goes to hell ‘unaware’ or unknowingly. God doesn’t let people go through life ‘unaware’ and then scream “Gotcha!” as he hurls them to torment.

the “eternal” nature of hell is just terrible. Why did God make this game of life to have such high stakes. death comes suddenly and snap of the fingers we’re burning up in hell. Repeat after me: NOBODY GOES TO HELL UNWILLINGLY, UNKNOWINGLY, UNAWARE, OR UNFAIRLY.

why not give us many lifetimes via reincarnation or some other means, by which we can take as long as we want to either rise to heaven, or descend to hell, and never be stuck anywhere forever. This would seem to be a much more fair system. But I guess God knows best. what I don’t get is why did he do it like this, i.e. make hell eternal?? surely he didn’t have too?? or did he??

God doesn’t do anything ‘unfair’. If you have trouble understanding, it isn’t because God didn’t do it ‘right’ but because you have trouble understanding. Take it to Him in prayer and He will help. Of course it would also help if you got rid of some of the misconceptions you have, so maybe checking out the catechism would help, and instead of going with readings that confuse or upset you, try going with reading, say, Pope Benedict’s “Jesus of Nazareth.” The more you get to know Jesus, the less likely you are to see Him as some big unfair jerk out to torment people, and the more likely you are to love Him and want to do His will. . and of course, the more likely you are to yearn for and ultimately achieve Heaven with His help.

 

[OldSchoolChops]

Originally posted by EmeraldWings:

well, the thing of it is, we already “deserve” hell

Not to hijack the thread here, but I’ve heard this said many times already. My question is, why?

I’m confused. I never asked to be born. If being human alone is sufficient to warrant eternal torture, I think that’s incredibly unfair.

I get the whole Original Sin thing, and Lord knows I’m a sinner now, but c’mon, give me a chance!

The above suggests that before Christ, even the righteous were condemned to eternal torture. That can’t be right.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I often find myself having a hard time believing in the eternity of hell. I mean, even for Stalin or Hitler (if they’re there), wouldn’t, say, a million years be enough to suffer? And let’s say they are in hell for eternity as the Church teaches. Are you telling me that the person who deliberately and knowingly skipped Mass on Sunday, and a person who had premarital sex with his girlfriend (again, knowingly and deliberately) will spend the same eternity there??? That’s harsh, and seem like a disproportionate punishment.

I know some pretty devout Catholics who are getting pretty interested in so called Universalism, namely, that in the end, everyone, including the demons, will ultimately be reconciled to God. I saw a write-up about it in an ecumenical newsletter for Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. Universalism is gaining steam and people are giving it another look despite the fact that Origen was condemned for it so many centuries ago.

But ETERNITY for even one mortal sin? Sorry, I have a hard time accepting that. It just seems too unreasonable.

The thing about a mortal sin is that it involves choice. We are choosing to separate ourselves from God. We turn from His grace and make the choice for ourselves.

 

[wjp984]

Not if people choose it, which is what Hell is. I don’t know who warrants Hell or what warrants Hell and I do believe that God is merciful and along with the fact there are allowable perfect contritons, even one in a state of mortal sin can genuinely seek it if they are unable to go to Confession first.

Pride is one of the most powerful sins of them all. Do you really not believe that there are people out there that would rather spend an eternity in Hell rather than admit they were wrong. Sadly, I think there are people like this and God had to create a place for them.

Satan despises God and will always despise God. He will not submit to God and desires to remain in Hell in suffering rather than submit. Sad as it may be, several people make this same choice, to suffer with their pride for all eternity rather than submit to God.

 

[EmeraldWings]

Not to hijack the thread here, but I’ve heard this said many times already. My question is, why?

I’m confused. I never asked to be born. If being human alone is sufficient to warrant eternal torture, I think that’s incredibly unfair.

I get the whole Original Sin thing, and Lord knows I’m a sinner now, but c’mon, give me a chance!

The above suggests that before Christ, even the righteous were condemned to eternal torture. That can’t be right.

it’s not so much the pain and torture that we deserve, but the separation from God, because God is so pure, and us being so impure by our sins, we are unworthy.
it’s not being human that would send us to hell, but giving ourselves over to sin, and therefore giving ourselves to the devil(mortal sin), but does that mean we will go to hell? of course not, we are given the opportunity to go to heaven, and despite deserving hell, there is absolutely no reason we have to go there, God offers us heaven and wants us to go there,
we only go to hell if we choose to, so whether we deserve it or not, that shouldn’t make a difference,
even the saints recognized that they deserved hell, and how much more sinful are we? but they are in heaven now, and that should give us alot of hope.

i’m sorry if i say some maybe cold or depressing things now and then, i want to speak of Gods love and i end up speaking this way, but what i really wanted to stress was, God loves us so much, that even despite our unworthiness, He forgets that and gives us everything we need to get to heaven,
we should acknowledge our own unworthiness, but God only loves us, that is what i wanted to say.

 

[Petergee]

The idea of hell currently has me very angry at God. I am unable to pray, because the only thought my mind can produce is "how dare you create me God, and also create an eternal hell. How dare you expose me to such a massive risk, when life is so short, and evidence of the truth often difficult to understand, and the true odds of actually making it unknown. "

Nobody goes to Hell because he found it hard to understand the truth. Nobody even goes to Hell because he committed a sin because he honestly couldn’t understand the truth that it is a sin.

I much prefer this wonderful, risky life where everything depends on the choices I make, than that God had made me an unthinking robot who had no choice but to spend eternity with Him.

I’m very shocked how casually some people talk about hell, and how there might actually be people in it.

I’m very shocked how casually some people talk about hell, considering the fact that our Saviour solemnly warned us that there are many people in it.

 

[benedictus2]

I often find myself having a hard time believing in the eternity of hell. I mean, even for Stalin or Hitler (if they’re there), wouldn’t, say, a million years be enough to suffer? And let’s say they are in hell for eternity as the Church teaches. Are you telling me that the person who deliberately and knowingly skipped Mass on Sunday, and a person who had premarital sex with his girlfriend (again, knowingly and deliberately) will spend the same eternity there??? That’s harsh, and seem like a disproportionate punishment.

I know some pretty devout Catholics who are getting pretty interested in so called Universalism, namely, that in the end, everyone, including the demons, will ultimately be reconciled to God. I saw a write-up about it in an ecumenical newsletter for Eastern Catholics and Orthodox. Universalism is gaining steam and people are giving it another look despite the fact that Origen was condemned for it so many centuries ago.

But ETERNITY for even one mortal sin? Sorry, I have a hard time accepting that. It just seems too unreasonable.

Only if you think of it as “punishment”.

God does not punish in the same way we conceive punishment.

People in hell freely chooses hell.

For one to die in mortal sin, one must have been consciously and willfully in defiance of God such that the soul has been conditioned into this state of “No” to God that in the end the only answer it could give is No.

 

[Petergee]

The key question for me is, what criterion did God use to determine how many people he would create whom he knew would freely choose hell as opposed to heaven??? That is, why is the number of people in hell x, instead of say x+ 2, or x + 3??

the only answer that makes sense is that God directly wills the number of people in hell and the number of people in heaven.

I could not bare the thought of a God who would create the conditions under which some men would choose hell, if it were not absolutely necessary that these conditions exist in order to bring about glorious souls for heaven.

But this leads me to conclude that in order for God to give us the full gift of free will, it was * necessary * that some people would use that free will to choose hell. (

Or else God should have only created souls whom he knew would choose heaven, but (presumably, unless universalism is true) he didn’t do that.

So to me, this implicates God in the suffering of a soul in hell, even if hell was freely chosen by the individual man, because of the necessity that there be souls in hell in order to allow God to give us the gift of free will so that some could gain heaven.

said another way, There are souls in heaven if and only if there are souls in hell.
or if you prefer, The possibility of heaven exists if and only if the possibility of hell exists.

I fail to see how a good God can really be good when he brings about the conditions by which something like hell (unmitigated intolerable torture for all eternity with no parole, no benefits, and no hope whatsoever period) is a necessary part of his creation.

No glory no matter how great makes up for the suffering of a single soul in hell, no matter how much it is “deserved.”

We often say people choose hell, but I am certain that once people get there, they will regret it. NO one tolerates hell. They may not want heaven, but they will NOT enjoy hell in anyway whatsoever, that is my understanding at least, (if they do enjoy it, I wont’ feel so scared about going there).

Nonsense. God doesn’t want anybody to go to Hell. He creates each of us as an individual, He doesn’t say to Himself “well X% of men will choose Hell, so if I create an extra 100 men, I guess I’ll have to deal with the fact that there’s be an extra X men in Hell.” Much less that He is creating them in order to go to Hell.

People in Hell will regret it, but they will see and understand that their punishment is just. Note that the rich man in the parable, suffering in Hell, doesn’t ask God or Abraham to take him out of Hell and take him to Heaven. Instead, his regret leads him to ask Abraham to send the dead man back to this life to warn his brothers.

 

[benedictus2]

How do we know that we can’t change our mind after death?

Does this mean that effectively our free will stops working after we die?

It means that we continously, freely will the NO to God.

What good is God’s gift of free will for the great majority of our existence we are not able to use it??

Hell does not meal lose of free will.

(it seems to me a lot of people aren’t even aware that they are in “eternal danger” many people that I meet day to day seem to never think of hell and I’m jealous of them because they are free from this terrible anxiety (the threat of eternal punishment)) this whole hell thing is just awful if you ask me.

An unhealthy pre-occupation with hell is precisely that - unhealthy.
The over arching theme of Sacred Scripture is God’s love through which He calls us to repentance that we may know the kingdom of God that is at hand.

the “eternal” nature of hell is just terrible. Why did God make this game of life to have such high stakes. death comes suddenly and snap of the fingers we’re burning up in hell.

Why did God? Because He is God and knows infinitely more than you do.

This sounds like a pet poodle questioning the actions of its owner.

why not give us many lifetimes via reincarnation or some other means, by which we can take as long as we want to either rise to heaven, or descend to hell, and never be stuck anywhere forever. This would seem to be a much more fair system. But I guess God knows best. what I don’t get is why did he do it like this, i.e. make hell eternal?? surely he didn’t have too?? or did he??

 

[felicerose]

My two cents’ worth.

I’d always thought that one went to hell when one committed sin in full knowledge of its gravity PLUS one didn’t feel any repentance. That sounds pretty terrible to me. You do bad things, thinking, yeah I know it’s bad but I don’t care! All I care is having my way and I’m not going to feel sorry about it either.

What’s worse if you did all this… and you thought, I know what I’ll do… I’ll do whatever I want now (even though I know it offends God) and when I get old enough and I think I’m about to die, then I’ll go to God and say,“I’m sorry.” The insincerity stinks so bad that anyone would feel like vomiting.

So an eternity in hell doesn’t sound like a disproportionate punishment.

Off topic a bit :
What I’ve been led to understand was that God only created Hell as a place to put Satan and the other rebellious angels. These angels know that they deserve to be put there but they are also trying their best to drag down with them as many of the human souls as they can. Well I suppose that it’s a kind of sour grapes. Since they didn’t get to take over Heaven, they don’t want others to get to Heaven either. A sort of last poke-in-the-eye for God.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[DavidKays]

My two cents’ worth.

I’d always thought that one went to hell when one committed sin in full knowledge of its gravity PLUS one didn’t feel any repentance. That sounds pretty terrible to me. You do bad things, thinking, yeah I know it’s bad but I don’t care! All I care is having my way and I’m not going to feel sorry about it either.

What’s worse if you did all this… and you thought, I know what I’ll do… I’ll do whatever I want now (even though I know it offends God) and when I get old enough and I think I’m about to die, then I’ll go to God and say,“I’m sorry.” The insincerity stinks so bad that anyone would feel like vomiting.

So an eternity in hell doesn’t sound like a disproportionate punishment.

Off topic a bit :
What I’ve been led to understand was that God only created Hell as a place to put Satan and the other rebellious angels. These angels know that they deserve to be put there but they are also trying their best to drag down with them as many of the human souls as they can. Well I suppose that it’s a kind of sour grapes. Since they didn’t get to take over Heaven, they don’t want others to get to Heaven either. A sort of last poke-in-the-eye for God.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

You are on the right track.

 

[rotlex]

So I’d like to add a question to all this if I might. something that has always bothered me when Heaven and Hell are discussed. Why the giant cosmic game? Seriously. why? If God is all loving, powerful, knowing etc., why? I mean, and I don’t mean to sound blasphemous, what the heck is up with that? Is he sitting up there, pretending to play a board game until one day he decides he’s bored with it, announces the second coming, and finally things are as they should be? Can anyone honestly answer this? Is going to Hell like being the pawn on a giant chess board that gets axed by the knight for someones amusement?

Why eternal hell? Again, seriously. I’m going to burn in eternal Hell fire, forever and ever, for let’s say, using a condom while having sex with my wife, and sit next to a mass serial killer, or a Hitler, who’s killed and tortured thousands? Really, that’s pretty hard for me to believe. I’d even say it sounds like out right fantasy. Either that, or a system devised by man, in order to keep control of the general popluation, in a time when many still believed the world was flat.

Yeah, I realize what I just typed sounds harsh, and probably makes it sound as though I’m an “unbeliever”, but I’m not. I’m a very devout, God fearing man, who only gets frustrated and confused over issues such as this.