Isn't eternity in hell a disproportionate punishment?

[Debora123]

Missing mass on purpose is a mortal sin.

**1035 **The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

rid your soul of those sins in confession.

Yes, I know it’s considered a mortal sin, I never said otherwise. And I’m not saying I skip mass on a regular basis, I’m saying that I have a couple of times in the 25 years of my life. And of course, I’ve repented for the times I have.

 

[Debora123]

While circumstances might mitigate the gravity of an action, let’s get serious here. You’re trying to justify an action (missing Mass) by saying that it wasn’t really rejection (disobedience) that was an issue, it was ‘laziness’ or ‘other things’ or ‘being tired’ that you were really feeling.

I wasn’t trying to justify it. If you read my post completely, you’ll see that I wrote “I know it was very sinful of me.” No where in there was I trying to justify anything, nor was I saying that it was ok. Very much the opposite.

Anyway, I was just saying that I didn’t do it with the intention of turning away from God. I’m a weak human being and I make mistakes sometimes. I’m not purposely rejecting God when I make a mistake, I’m just making a mistake. And while it’s still very wrong, I wasn’t doing it for the purpose of turning my back on God.

 

[Debora123]

But you know what? You could have (and easily) chosen to say, “I don’t ‘feel’ like it but I wish to obey God”. . .and gone.
You could have said, “I’m tired, but I’ve done plenty of things I wanted to when I was just as tired. . .or more. I’m going to obey God.”
You could have done that.

Yes, I am aware, thank you. I do that pretty much every sunday. But there have been a couple times in my life where I’ve skipped. I know I could/should have gone, and I never said what I did was ok, I was just explaining the mistake I made.

Seems to me that you want to put all the blame on ‘outside forces’ when you DISobey God, but take all the credit “I deserve heaven, dang it” when you actually wind up obeying Him. That isn’t right.

Lol, well certainly we’ve ALL disobeyed God. We do it on a daily basis. Don’t tell me you don’t sin everyday. Anyway, I wasn’t putting the blame on anyone or anything. I was stating my reasons for giving in to certain temptations. I wasn’t saying they were right, I was just saying, those were the reasons why I did something wrong.

Side note: I didn’t write that post to be judged/blamed/analyzed for the sin I already know I committed and already repented. I wrote that post to give an example for my opinion, and trying to see the logic in this whole topic. So please, no more moral lectures on what I could have done/should have done. It’s kind of annoying and belittling.

 

[cynic]

How do we, as utterly inferior beings in comparison to God, have the ability to offend or “hurt” him? Assuming we do somehow have such power, would a God still wish hell on finite creatures like us as punishment?

 

[cynic]

those who wish to believe that there is no hell or that hell is not forever are driven by fear and self-love

But not empathy for others? One of the hardest things to accept regarding Christianity is that your non-believing relatives who have passed on are in hell.

in my opinion, the only thing that leads to this kind of thinking is a lack of love for God

I think that’s what the thread is about ; difficulties in loving a God who would create hell.

God loves you more than you can imagine, and He will give you everything you need to get to heaven, you have nothing to fear,

This love appears utilitarian in that were are ultimately here to serve a purpose. ie. glorification (yes, outside of the topic) In which case it doesn’t really seem like love. Would a parent view their children in this manner, would they want their offspring to suffer forever for failing to love and respect them? Yet God does, which seems impossible to accept.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

How do we, as utterly inferior beings in comparison to God, have the ability to offend or “hurt” him? Assuming we do somehow have such power, would a God still wish hell on finite creatures like us as punishment?

These are questions we must ask ourselves and strive with every free waking moment to answer by use of our intellect with the help God gives us. The questions about God’s nature cannot be answered succinctly in an online computer post. The Church has defined theology and has offered the teachings of the Apostles in union with the Holy Spirit for 20 centuries. It is these teachings that lead one closer to God by virtue, prayer, and study.

Rejecting this study in favor of TV, video games, or any other distraction from what is most needed, knowing God, is the choice one makes in opposing God and choosing the separation from God for eternity. It is this failure to put God first, even in the form of not praying to Him for help, that leads one to reject daily the myriad of graces God offers for those who would just not turn away from them.

It is in this beginning study that right living, correct thinking, and loving actions also find their beginning as these are graces from God, which come from knowing correctly the God of Divine Revelation, not the god we make from our own desires.

 

[DavidKays]

How do we, as utterly inferior beings in comparison to God, have the ability to offend or “hurt” him? Assuming we do somehow have such power, would a God still wish hell on finite creatures like us as punishment?

Cynic, you have a great ability to know the truth despite your name. It is true that sin does not hurt God. What sin does is hurt us. There my friend is the problem. One day Adam and Eve were singing praises to God and the next day they were hiding in the bushes. Why? Because God became angry. Of course not. All the sins in the world are only grains in the hands of God. They can all disappear in the furnace of His Merciful Heart and Love. The problem is not what sin does to God but what it does to us. God can never change. He is always in a state of Heaven. No matter what we do God never changes. But sins especially our own can change us. Sin in medical terms can cause terminal illness in our souls. Remember that it was sin that brought death into the world. If sin can cause death to the body then it is very serious indeed. Now the Eastern Fathers never considered the sin of Adam and Eve serious enough to warrant it mortal. The Fathers of the Eastern Church look at the sin of Adam and Eve as light yet the consequences were bad. The Western Church or more specifically the Roman Catholic Church view the sin of Adam and Eve with greater weight as such in the teachings of their Latin Fathers especially St.Augustine. The Latin Fathers say the sin of Adam and Eve were great. The East said no. The sin was light but the consequences were heavy. This helps explain what sin can do to a person. If the sin of Adam and Eve was light as taught by the Eastern Fathers then imagine what consequences can befall a person who will commit heavier sins such as Cain did. Therefore it is the heaviest sin that weighs alot on your soul. The consequences to it will be harder than what Adam and Eve felt. If Adam and Eve hid themselves from the Lord because of their light sin can you imagine what will happen to those who commit more terrible sins. Sin effect us. Sin does not effect God. God is concern more when we do sin as in the case of Adam and Eve when He questions them where they are. God is not condemning them but He is concern for them. They are not the same as they were the day before. They seem scared and frightened wondering what God will do. These are new feelings for them and they cannot understand what is wrong inside them. God sees their condition and knows about it. God is merciful and questions them. Their response is not to accept their own responsibility but to put the blame on the other. All God wanted from them was the truth. So they sinned again by not taking responsibilty for their own actions. Had they admitted their responsibilty they will have been restored and given back Grace. Yet God is still merciful and will help them to understand why sin can be a terrible disease by promising them a saviour who will lead His people in the right direction. All God wants you to do is to be on the right direction and will do what He can to put you back even dying for you so that you can be put back. Sin can change us. Mercy can heal us. There is the remedy for all sins, Mercy. The worst sinner no matter who has the right to His Mercy. His Heart is full of healing. But sometimes the person has sinned so much that they become blind to Mercy and the sins within them has cause them to reject Mercy. In this case we can see them not in a state of heaven but in a state similar to the fallen angels. There is no cure for them at all because they are the ones who have decided that for themselves.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Cynic, you have a great ability to know the truth despite your name. It is true that sin does not hurt God. What sin does is hurt us. There my friend is the problem. One day Adam and Eve were singing praises to God and the next day they were hiding in the bushes. Why? Because God became angry. Of course not. All the sins in the world are only grains in the hands of God. They can all disappear in the furnace of His Merciful Heart and Love.

The problem is not what sin does to God but what it does to us. God can never change. He is always in a state of Heaven. No matter what we do God never changes. But sins especially our own can change us. Sin in medical terms can cause terminal illness in our souls. Remember that it was sin that brought death into the world. If sin can cause death to the body then it is very serious indeed. Now the Eastern Fathers never considered the sin of Adam and Eve serious enough to warrant it mortal.

The Fathers of the Eastern Church look at the sin of Adam and Eve as light yet the consequences were bad. The Western Church or more specifically the Roman Catholic Church view the sin of Adam and Eve with greater weight as such in the teachings of their Latin Fathers especially St.Augustine. The Latin Fathers say the sin of Adam and Eve were great. The East said no. The sin was light but the consequences were heavy. This helps explain what sin can do to a person.

If the sin of Adam and Eve was light as taught by the Eastern Fathers then imagine what consequences can befall a person who will commit heavier sins such as Cain did. Therefore it is the heaviest sin that weighs alot on your soul. The consequences to it will be harder than what Adam and Eve felt. If Adam and Eve hid themselves from the Lord because of their light sin can you imagine what will happen to those who commit more terrible sins.

Sin effect us. Sin does not effect God. God is concern more when we do sin as in the case of Adam and Eve when He questions them where they are. God is not condemning them but He is concern for them. They are not the same as they were the day before. They seem scared and frightened wondering what God will do. These are new feelings for them and they cannot understand what is wrong inside them. God sees their condition and knows about it. God is merciful and questions them.

Their response is not to accept their own responsibility but to put the blame on the other. All God wanted from them was the truth. So they sinned again by not taking responsibilty for their own actions. Had they admitted their responsibilty they will have been restored and given back Grace.

Yet God is still merciful and will help them to understand why sin can be a terrible disease by promising them a saviour who will lead His people in the right direction. All God wants you to do is to be on the right direction and will do what He can to put you back even dying for you so that you can be put back.

Sin can change us. Mercy can heal us. There is the remedy for all sins, Mercy. The worst sinner no matter who has the right to His Mercy. His Heart is full of healing. But sometimes the person has sinned so much that they become blind to Mercy and the sins within them has cause them to reject Mercy. In this case we can see them not in a state of heaven but in a state similar to the fallen angels. There is no cure for them at all because they are the ones who have decided that for themselves.

Isn’t this easier to read?

 

[LilyM]

I wasn’t trying to justify it. If you read my post completely, you’ll see that I wrote “I know it was very sinful of me.” No where in there was I trying to justify anything, nor was I saying that it was ok. Very much the opposite.

Anyway, I was just saying that I didn’t do it with the intention of turning away from God. I’m a weak human being and I make mistakes sometimes. I’m not purposely rejecting God when I make a mistake, I’m just making a mistake. And while it’s still very wrong, I wasn’t doing it for the purpose of turning my back on God.

Go back and read your own posts - they all smack of an attitude of ‘yes, I did it, but it wasn’t REALLY that bad, it wasn’t REALLY a mortal sin worthy of hell, not like murder.’ In fact you pronounced the idea of skipping Mass being punishable by Hell to be ‘unreasonable’, did you not?

Well, in the eyes of the one who counts, that is God, whose capacity for reason is infinitely greater than yours or mine, yes it jolly well was (potentially) on a similar if not exactly the same level of badness. And it jolly well was (potentially) worthy of Hell.

In fact He even put the commandment about honouring the Sabbath, the one you broke by skipping Mass, AHEAD of the one about murder in the decalogue. Which, given that reasonable beings tend to list rules in order of importance, might give you some idea of just how much His priorities differ from yours!

 

[felicerose]

You know, after how many pages of this thread, what I see clearly is this:

After reading what has been said and shared by so many people, the issues are clear. If a person is still unconvinced and still wants to come up with excuses for not going to Mass etc, then that person has made his or her choice. I give credit to the others for still wanting to ‘clarify’ the issue but I think it’s well and truly clarified to the point of exhaustion.

What I want to ask these unconvinced people is this… for what you have ‘given’ to God (how many minutes a day? how many thoughts a week?), is it FAIR to get an eternity in Heaven? How come nobody wants to ask that?

 

[vz71]

Assuming we do somehow have such power, would a God still wish hell on finite creatures like us as punishment?

Finite creatures cannot experience hell.

 

[Debora123]

Go back and read your own posts - they all smack of an attitude of ‘yes, I did it, but it wasn’t REALLY that bad, it wasn’t REALLY a mortal sin worthy of hell, not like murder.’ In fact you pronounced the idea of skipping Mass being punishable by Hell to be ‘unreasonable’, did you not?

Yes I did. I definitely don’t think missing one mass is enough to make someone go to Hell. That is my opinion. I never said what I did wasn’t wrong, but do I think it’s worthy of Hell? No. Do I think it’s less grave than killing someone? Yes.

Well, in the eyes of the one who counts, that is God, whose capacity for reason is infinitely greater than yours or mine, yes it jolly well was (potentially) on a similar if not exactly the same level of badness. And it jolly well was (potentially) worthy of Hell.

Well I jolly well don’t think it’s your place to say that what I did was worthy of Hell, only God can judge that. Why are you getting such an attitude? And maybe I am wrong about it not being worthy of Hell. I am not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone else, nor am I putting down anyone who disagrees with me. I was simply giving my opinion and giving the reasons why I think what I think.

In fact He even put the commandment about honouring the Sabbath, the one you broke by skipping Mass, AHEAD of the one about murder in the decalogue. Which, given that reasonable beings tend to list rules in order of importance, might give you some idea of just how much His priorities differ from yours!

I love how you have to add in there and emphasize *“the one you broke for skipping mass” *like you’re mad at me or looking down on me or something, even though I’ve already said I repented. Some of you people are truly amazing.

But anyway, the way you interpret the ten commandments is debatable. For example, the Jews were condemning Jesus for performing miracles on the Sabbath, because supposedly he was not “keeping the sabbath day holy,” as the commandments stated. The bible says a lot of things that we sometimes can’t take completely literally word for word (like those Jews did), which is why we gotta use some common sense.

You can sit there and tell me that skipping one day of mass is as evil as killing another human being, but I don’t think many people can blame me for disagreeing. Not to say that skipping a day of mass is ok, of course not. But to take literally that skipping one day of mass is worse than killing another person because it comes before murder on the ten commandments is a silly idea.

Put it into perspective:

Take the 4th commandment for example. I’m sure growing up, we’ve all had our moments where we talked back to a parent or disobeid a parent or did something behind their back. According to the ten commandments, we are all worse than mass murderers. Likewise with saying the Lord’s name in vein. Every time someone says “oh my God” they are doing something worse than killing a person.

So my point is, to say that a sin is worse than another simply because it’s listed first in the ten commandments is not only silly, but completely unreasonable. It all depends on how you interpret them.

PS - For what it’s worth, I think your attitude of snobiness and judgment toward me aren’t that much worse than what I did. Just my opinion. Peace out.

 

[slywakka250]

You know, after how many pages of this thread, what I see clearly is this:

After reading what has been said and shared by so many people, the issues are clear. If a person is still unconvinced and still wants to come up with excuses for not going to Mass etc, then that person has made his or her choice. I give credit to the others for still wanting to ‘clarify’ the issue but I think it’s well and truly clarified to the point of exhaustion.

What I want to ask these unconvinced people is this… for what you have ‘given’ to God (how many minutes a day? how many thoughts a week?), is it FAIR to get an eternity in Heaven? How come nobody wants to ask that?

More than anything, I am angry at God for creating me, and exposing me to the risk that I might just choose hell over God. Life moves fast. The time of death is unpredictable. We live in a largely secular society, that does not readily acknowledge the existence of sin or of God. So many people are not even aware of the eternal doom that threatens them.

The whole process of making our eternal choice feels much too contrived, especially when the Church demands obedience on pain of eternal doom, (i.e. miss one Mass, eat meat on the wrong day, etc) I’m jealous of non-Catholic Christians who don’t have specific mortal sins defined so precisely as we do.

It is also much too mysterious. In this life, we never know for certain if we are right with God. If I were to die this second, I have no clue what my eternal destiny would be. We pray for the Grace of final perseverance, because none of us knows if we will be faithful to the end. Maybe we will understand what choices led us to hell when we die, but until then we can only speculate and pray and hope. These things are not enough given the stakes we are dealing with here. (eternal torture) For instance, I’m not even fully convinced God exists, or any of this matters in the first place. Despite a lot of education in Catholicism, I still feel left out in the dark.

(Matthew 25:26) “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I wish there was a way that my memory could be erased, and all my Catholic upbringing could be gone. I feel trapped in Catholicism, and I wish it would all just go away. All this talk of mortal sin and hell causes me a lot of distress and anxiety, and it really makes me depressed. You might say I feel this way because I’m a big sinner and I have “rejected God.” I didn’t feel better when I used to live my faith very well. I felt worse, with massive anxiety about sin and hell as well. I’m so lost.

 

[Debora123]

I wish there was a way that my memory could be erased, and all my Catholic upbringing could be gone. I feel trapped in Catholicism, and I wish it would all just go away. All this talk of mortal sin and hell causes me a lot of distress and anxiety, and it really makes me depressed. You might say I feel this way because I’m a big sinner and I have “rejected God.” I didn’t feel better when I used to live my faith very well. I felt worse, with massive anxiety about sin and hell as well. I’m so lost.

I am so sorry you feel this way

Remember though, the feelings of despair/hopelessness you are having is the work of Satan attempting to bring you down. God does not want you to feel this way. He does not want you to live in constant fear of Hell. Go to Him with your worries, and I guarantee it’ll make you feel better. It is what Jesus told us to do.

Also, remember that what you see here on this forum isn’t THE WORD. A lot of these people are very strict/fundamentalist Catholics, and they have no mercy/tolerance for anyone who feels lost or doubtful… or who even questions anything. Find yourself a good priest to talk to. Coming on here obviously isn’t helping you any, and it isn’t healthy.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

More than anything, I am angry at God for creating me, and exposing me to the risk that I might just choose hell over God. Life moves fast. The time of death is unpredictable. We live in a largely secular society, that does not readily acknowledge the existence of sin or of God. So many people are not even aware of the eternal doom that threatens them.

The whole process of making our eternal choice feels much too contrived, especially when the Church demands obedience on pain of eternal doom, (i.e. miss one Mass, eat meat on the wrong day, etc) I’m jealous of non-Catholic Christians who don’t have specific mortal sins defined so precisely as we do.

It is also much too mysterious. In this life, we never know for certain if we are right with God. If I were to die this second, I have no clue what my eternal destiny would be. We pray for the Grace of final perseverance, because none of us knows if we will be faithful to the end. Maybe we will understand what choices led us to hell when we die, but until then we can only speculate and pray and hope. These things are not enough given the stakes we are dealing with here. (eternal torture) For instance, I’m not even fully convinced God exists, or any of this matters in the first place. Despite a lot of education in Catholicism, I still feel left out in the dark.

(Matthew 25:26) “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I wish there was a way that my memory could be erased, and all my Catholic upbringing could be gone. I feel trapped in Catholicism, and I wish it would all just go away. All this talk of mortal sin and hell causes me a lot of distress and anxiety, and it really makes me depressed. You might say I feel this way because I’m a big sinner and I have “rejected God.” I didn’t feel better when I used to live my faith very well. I felt worse, with massive anxiety about sin and hell as well. I’m so lost.

I actually do think it would do you good to speak with a priest–in fact, it would do you good to have a spiritual director. Check into it.

Also --and I don’t mean this as a criticism in any way whatsoever–you might wish to see a competent psychiatrist/counselor if you have not already done so. Any kind of overwhelming anxiety should be evaluated by professionals.

In a way I’m glad you made it clear (for the slower-witted like me) that you have a genuine anxiety. There is a big difference between the person who is bound and determined to reject ‘uncomfortable ideas’ so that he can sin without regret (not you) and the person who is terrified that somehow he WILL sin and then will suffer. The first person knows the truth and is trying to get away with wrong; the SECOND person knows the truth but (often without his own conscious effort) is so worried that he will ‘unknowingly’ do wrong that he becomes either totally unable to do ANYTHING and just ‘dithers’, or else he DESPAIRS and gives up – UNLESS he is able, with the help of much prayer, friends, counselors etc. to TRUST God.

It’s a nasty little trick of the devil to take somebody like this --somebody who trusts in God–and USE that trust AGAINST them. Because, strangely enough, the whole ‘trust’ that they have about God’s ‘power’ they actually have twisted. . .they only trust Him to do BAD THINGS to them. They DON’T trust Him to do GOOD things. They become so fixated on worrying about God the ‘avenger’ that they don’t imagine, they don’t believe, and above all, they don’t trust, in God the just and merciful.

 

[Debora123]

After reading what has been said and shared by so many people, the issues are clear. **If a person is still unconvinced and still wants to come up with excuses for not going to Mass etc, **then that person has made his or her choice.

(I don’t know if you are referring to me or not, but considering you posted this shortly after my post, I’m going to act on the possibility that you might be.)

First of all, I wasn’t coming up with “excuses” for not going to mass. I love how people try to distort what I say, no matter HOW clear I am.

Let me spell it out to all of you who are ripping me apart for saying I skipped mass maybe 2 or 3 times in my life:

I go to mass every Sunday. There have been a number of times in the 25 years of my life (and that number can be counted on one hand) when I have given in to my weak/sinful human nature and, for whatever inexcusable reason, skipped mass. Now, I know it was wrong, I went to confession for it. Ok? In my post, I was not, repeat, was NOT, trying to say that skipping mass was ok, or that I do it on a regular basis. All I was doing was giving my stupid, wrong, inexcusable reasons for skipping mass, in attempt to make a point. My point was this - I didn’t do it because I wanted to turn away from God, or because I wanted to reject God and His ways, or because I wanted to go to Hell. I did it because I was too lazy and gave in to temptation. Period.

Still wrong? Yes. Still horrible? Yes. Still inexcusable? YES. Did I do it specifically with the intention to hurt/rebel against God? No. Did I do it because I am an imperfect human being who, in times of weakness, sometimes makes bad decisions? Yes!

SO now that we (hopefully) have that cleared up…

What I was saying was, I don’t really understand why people say that when you commit a mortal sin, you are purposely doing it in an attempt to turn away from God and reject God. When someone is about to commit a mortal sin, though they know it is wrong, I don’t reckon they think to themselves “I am doing this because I h*te God and because I want to reject Him and go to Hell.” I used my story as an example. (although I’ve learned my lesson to never reveal anything wrong I’ve ever done in my life on this forum) I was making the point that, as weak human beings, with a natural tendency to sin, we sometimes make mistakes and give in to temptations and, in a moment of weakness, commit sins that are considered “mortal.” We’re not thinking about insulting God, we’re not even intentionally doing it. The way some people talk, it makes it sound like every time someone commits a mortal sin, they are intentionally trying to ruin their relationship with God, and I was just saying I don’t see that really being the case, and I don’t get that.

I was expressing my confusion and doubt, based on my own experiences with “mortal” sin, as well as giving my opinion on the issue. That is all.

 

[slywakka250]

Still wrong? Yes. Still horrible? Yes. Still inexcusable? YES. Did I do it specifically with the intention to hurt/rebel against God? No. Did I do it because I am an imperfect human being who, in times of weakness, sometimes makes bad decisions? Yes!

SO now that we (hopefully) have that cleared up…

What I was saying was, I don’t really understand why people say that when you commit a mortal sin, you are purposely doing it in an attempt to turn away from God and reject God. When someone is about to commit a mortal sin, though they know it is wrong, I don’t reckon they think to themselves “I am doing this because I h*te God and because I want to reject Him and go to Hell.” I used my story as an example. (although I’ve learned my lesson to never reveal anything wrong I’ve ever done in my life on this forum) I was making the point that, as weak human beings, with a natural tendency to sin, we sometimes make mistakes and give in to temptations and, in a moment of weakness, commit sins that are considered “mortal.” We’re not thinking about insulting God, we’re not even intentionally doing it. The way some people talk, it makes it sound like every time someone commits a mortal sin, they are intentionally trying to ruin their relationship with God, and I was just saying I don’t see that really being the case, and I don’t get that.

I was expressing my confusion and doubt, based on my own experiences with “mortal” sin, as well as giving my opinion on the issue. That is all.

Mortal sin by definition is the ruining of your friendship with God. You don’t have to actually have this intention to commit mortal sin. The loss of friendship with God is the natural consequence of the sinful act.

I know, pretty scary. The point is that those 1 or two times you missed Mass, if you had died right then, theoretically could have put you hell, because missing Mass can be a mortal sin. This is what some of the above posters are saying.

God’s expectations of us are very high. and only those free of all mortal sin are capable of accepting his love. Mortal sin often appears in those things which seem small to us, but are nonetheless deadly serious in terms of ultimate reality and human destiny.

drives me crazy.

 

[DavidKays]

Debora you are correct in what you say. Missing Mass is not a hell bent sin. I have been on this website for almost a year now and I notice something about how Catholics see sin as. I am a Greek Orthodox Christian and in my Church we view sin differently than the Catholics. It is because our Saints or more specifically the Church Fathers of the East had a lighter view to sin then the Latin Fathers. The Latin Fathers had seen the sin of Adam and Eve as very severe whereas the Eastern Fathers see the sin of Adam and Eve as light. Yet the Eastern Fathers said the consequences to their sin was heavy. Now by heavy they the Eastern Fathers mean that death came to the world. But the Eastern Fathers will not go into the direction of the Latin Fathers and say the sin caused a terrible seperation from God like for instance a state of hell. The Eastern Fathers will say the sin caused bodily death not spiritual death. St.John writes in his epistle that there is a sin that can bring about spiritual death. This is what we call mortal sin. Now let me explain how grevious mortal sin can be. When the Nazis were exterminating the Jewish people alot of these Nazis were German Catholics and what some will do is to participate in the Sunday Mass and receive Communion. Now this is what we call Mortal sins. St.Paul condemn such actions as sins against the Body of Christ and these are grevious in their nature. St.Paul was writing to the Corinthians and warning them about this type of sin because some of them were dying. You see when the Mass was celebrated in Corinth they will have pot luck dinner and the rich avoided the poor and only the rich ate. This was a grevious sin in the eyes of God and some of them I mean the rich were dying. St.Paul wrote the letter to warn them against such conduct they have with the poor. Now missing Mass is not that big of a deal. There may by good reason to miss it. It does not count as Mortal as some as said so. Now if you miss Mass because you killed your next door neighbour well that is different. May by it is a good thing to miss Mass if you had killed your neighbour because you will not be like the Nazis who killed every week thousands of the Jewish Faith and then participated in the Sunday Mass. It will have been better had these Nazis not gone to Church at all! Now God is not going to be disturb about missing Mass once in awhile. And I do not think we are to burden our brothers and sisters who have done so and make them feel guilty over something that is not. So Debora you are right about what you say. We are weak and God understands that. We go to Mass because we are weak. God understands our condition so well. If you want to get after people then get after the ones who receive our Lord but come out argueing with their neighbour. Now I have a problem with that. How can 2 people after receiving our Lord can start after each other coming out of Mass. Man, won’t that bug Jesus. Listen if you are a good natured person fullfilling all the requirements that the Lord asks of you and you are attending plenty of Masses and Confessions, He is going to remember you. He is not going to be bothered if you miss at times. He is going to remember your visits. He will not be disturbed when you do not visit Him. Unless of course you will be doing it for a very long time. I wish the Catholic Church or more specifically Catholics will enter the world of the Eastern Church and just read about our Saints and our Church Fathers and Mothers and get a glimpse of what God is doing there. We have an ernormous amount of wealth and wisdom and spirituality that can help any Christian. Two Saints of the East that I can recommend for any Catholic to look up is St.John Chysostom ( my mentor ) and St.Seraphim of Russia. We have thousands of Saints at your disposal. Even though I am Greek Orthodox I have studied Catholic spirituality and I have adopted a Catholic way into my life. I especially am drawn to 3 Catholic Saints. St.Anthony of Padua, St.Maria Faustina and St.Francis of Assisi. Another one I have close relation to is St.Clare. I have also adopted His Holiness John Paul II as a mentor and have drawn up alot of my own experiences based on the life of this Holy and Saintly man.

 

[cynic]

The OP was asking how anything could warrant an eternity of pain. The posts in reply state that any sin, no matter what it is, equates to a wholesale rejection of God and therefore warrants hell. Basically that’s it right. I can’t understand how a good God could make loving him or punishment the only options. And where are the goal posts exactly ; one reply even suggests playing games (and probably any recreation at all) instead of studying scripture amounts to a rejection, others say such things in moderation are okay. Who ya gonna believe?

 

[oldbrit2009]

The OP was asking how anything could warrant an eternity of pain. The posts in reply state that any sin, no matter what it is, equates to a wholesale rejection of God and therefore warrants hell. Basically that’s it right. I can’t understand how a good God could make loving him or punishment the only options. And where are the goal posts exactly ; one reply even suggests playing games (and probably any recreation at all) instead of studying scripture amounts to a rejection, others say such things in moderation are okay. Who ya gonna believe?

Cynic,
A problem Christians have to confront when thinking about the eternal nature of hell is that it is difficult for us to comprehend someone who won’t say sorry. Someone who won’t repent. There are such people. I know many who are almost proud of the fact they won’t forgive so and so. I’m sure you have heard the expression, “I’ll never forgive them for that” and by God they mean it. If such sentiments are rooted in a persons heart, an unforgiving nature, an inability or reluctance to say sorry; there is no place for them in Paradice. They shut themselves out of heaven.