Isn't it immoral to worship god?

[PeterGStanley]

How do we really know who God is and what God is all about - the answer IS there in the bible - if you want to know God’s nature then you must come to know Jesus and you can do that by reading the gospels. You have to believe who Jesus was and his nature before you can come to this conclusion.

Just read the Gospels - John’s for-sure - and Paul’s letters and the Acts are a must and really read it - its funny how so many people want to discount the bible and God yet they have never really read the bible or even opened the book - I think before you can have any valid argument against people who believe you have to read the book or your just repeating words you heard others say in ignorance . I don’t know how many time people have spoken to me about it and when I ask them if they ever read the Gospel they say no - or they say they don’t have to read it to know.

When I was a young man I spouted off the same things I read in some of the post and the truth was I went to Church but never really payed attention and never read the bible or listened when it was read. Fortunately the faith given me was something I could not ignore and it was only when I began to read and listen that I began to understand and truly believe.

 

[DCNBILL]

If you gave me $1,000.00 as a gift, I’d say “Thank you.” Once. But this is a false analogy. Because God doesn’t ask us for a single “Thank you.” God asks us to thank him at every moment of every day for all our lives, and then for all of eternity after that. If you expected that of me, I’d give you your thousand dollars back. It’s not worth being an emotional slave.

Note that God does not want, just our thanks, He wants the “all of us” He wants us to conform our wills with His, not just our emotions. It is only by humble, vulnerable, love that we can achieve this state. Humility is the key to starting this process, acknowledging that we are not our own creation and looking to Him who did create us.

 

[WoundedIcon]

I strongly disagree with this, except in the sense that God chooses to create certain kinds of creatures, and much ethics depends on the particular nature of a certain creature.

The moral order itself is not “decided” by God. It cannot be other than it is, God being who He is. It reflects God’s nature, not God’s will.

See the Pope’s Regensburg speech for an excellent discussion of this.

Edwin

I understand what you’re saying. I never intended what I said to mean that God’s will is the sole arbiter of whether something is good or not, because then that’d be a view akin to the Muslim view of God where something is good if God does it, period, even if it be lying or another evil. I know that God didn’t decide the moral order and that it’s actually a reflection of His very nature itself. But if anything that only adds more force to my arguments, because without knowing the Being who’s very essence is right, how can anyone know what right truly is?

 

[DasErlibnis]

Just a quick note… to say I apologize if I came across as hateful. I hesitated and struggled when creating this thread, as I realize this is a Catholic forum, and don’t want to seem disrepectful of Believers, your God or your faith. But these things have been bugging me for a long time, blasphemous as they may be to think or say.

But there must be some reason I keep coming here, like a lost creature circling the edges of the campfire light looking for scraps.

Your post and the the others, I do appreciate very much. It’s a lot to digest… you’ve given me a different angle to consider things from. Thank you.

Marie,
It’s okay to have doubts. Everyone in every age has had doubts. Even the apostles, even Peter the Chief Apostle had doubts. None are perfect and we shouldn’t be judged by other humans against perfection. We have faults. But these doubts are the natural consequence of not living in eternity, but in time that passes moment by moment, chronologically. Ergo, the reason for Faith.

But first cones hope. And this is the most important thing, Hope. You absolutely must maintain the Hope that despite your/our sins, they are forgiveable. And they are. I’ll tell you, because its important, that not everyone gets some prophetic experience of God. I did, and the problem now is that I’m all the more accountable for it. In other words, I don’t get the benefit of the doubt, and I don’t get to “have Faith” in things unseen, because I’ve seen. So, for the person that I am, that is, one who is unable to do without proof, what is “evidence” is now scientific. I have to live according to what I’ve known. But its not likely that most people will “see”. Like you, there is the benefit of doubt.

So don’t take it for granted. Because now there is something more that you know: that there is no logic which can stand up to test that excludes Faith in an unseen God, because in order to “Be” God, one must be eternal and have power over time. One must also be infinite, and have power over space. To be God, one cannot be defined by time or space. But for that, it means that God cannot be this physical being which is constrained by either, in other words, it cannot be named. The only profession of Faith which has ever existed and meets this criteria is Jesus Christ, who demonstrates in bus Incarnation, Passion, Death, Resurrection, and Ascension that he has power over both. He was not limited by death, he rose from the dead. Before that, God the Father, who is called YHWH, is known only by the admission that be could not be named, only that he could be called “I Am Who Am”, and through the unity of the Holy Spirit, we now that God is “all in all”. Every culture in every age admits to a “Great Spirit”. How is that possible? How could they ALL say so? Every human in history!! Even the ones who do not know God? Ask, how many testimonies in court would it take to convict a criminal? Few. Yet, every culture in history has known the Holy Spirit, even though God chose the Jews to reveal His message of Hope.

Science has never disproved God…Never.

Again, that’s what you needed to hear.

Now, here’s the Truth of it. You wrote what you wrote for good reason, your heart is restless. They always are, especially for those who seek Him ever more. You write for the same reason I write, our hearts were made for God. We will remain restless until we rest in God. That’s fact. You won’t get over it. Both your doubt and your hope will remain with you for a very long time.

What you seek is rest. Peace. So make your peace. At this point, it becomes Choice.

It is a worthy choice. And looking at the flipside, looking at the other choice, the choice of no Faith and no God, well, there’s is no honor in that.

I apologize that I don’t make it easy. I just make it plain.

Godspeed.

Das Erlebnis - “the raw, brute, lived, concrete, experience”

Ps. Funny you mentioned “table scraps”…

Mark 7:28 "She replied, “That’s true, Lord, but even the dogs under the table are allowed to eat the scraps from the children’s plates.”

In other words, we all share in God’s providence. And you too.

 

[mgreen77]

Now, here’s the Truth of it. You wrote what you wrote for good reason, your heart is restless. They always are, especially for those who seek Him ever more. You write for the same reason I write, our hearts were made for God. We will remain restless until we rest in God. That’s fact. You won’t get over it. Both your doubt and your hope will remain with you for a very long time.

What you seek is rest. Peace. So make your peace. At this point, it becomes Choice.

It is a worthy choice. And looking at the flipside, looking at the other choice, the choice of no Faith and no God, well, there’s is no honor in that.

Ps. Funny you mentioned “table scraps”…

Mark 7:28 "She replied, “That’s true, Lord, but even the dogs under the table are allowed to eat the scraps from the children’s plates.”

In other words, we all share in God’s providence. And you too.

It’s funny ya know, 23.99 out of 24 hours of the day, I’m quite the annoyed, pessimistic critical cynic about all this. I “know” everything, I’m smarter, I’m “beyond” all this religious stuff.

Then I read something like this (and the other posts), and I’m moved to tears, in spite of myself.

Maybe I’m not so tough and superior as I like to think

 

[DCNBILL]

It’s funny ya know, 23.99 out of 24 hours of the day, I’m quite the annoyed, pessimistic critical cynic about all this. I “know” everything, I’m smarter, I’m “beyond” all this religious stuff.

Then I read something like this (and the other posts), and I’m moved to tears, in spite of myself.

Maybe I’m not so tough and superior as I like to think

You go! You must be feeling that pull at your soul!