Isn't THIS what Jesus COMMANDED?

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forgiveness:
I met a homeless man today, his grandmother had died a few days ago and he needed money to get to Scotland where she lived in time for her funeral. This man had just ‘recovered’ from jumping off a bridge, so you can imagine how welcome that news was. He went to THREE Catholic ‘Churches’ asking if they would give him some money to get the fare and they all flatly refused. They said that the Church does not give out its money because if they gave it to one person, then everyone would ask, and then they would be left with nothing. So what they did was to refuse all requests outright.
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How did you verify this homeless mans story? You do realize it is a sin to “bear false witness” don’t you? Did you contact these Churches? How did you verify the death in Scotland? How about the jumping story? Somehow I doubt you verified this person’s claim, as I wouldn’t either, nor would I expect the Church to. Ask for food, if they can, they will provide it or let you know where you can get it. Ask for shelter, chances are good they’ll find some for you. Ask for prayers and we will surely accommodate. The Catholic Church provides more money, time and talent for the care of the poor than ANY other organization. Name one who gives more. Yet you can sit there and call them “HYPOCRITES!”? Shame on you.
Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what were the names of the Churches, in what town? I’d just like to get their side of the story. Perhaps there are circumstances you aren’t aware of. I’m more than willing to contact them.
 
I live in England and he was not after a trans-atlantic air fare. Listen to yourselves, you don’t even know the reality of the situation and already you are jumping to conclusions to justify those actions of the Church. He was most certainly not after $1000, how absurd that that was even suggested, but it was, and look how defensive you all are about hoarding your money.

Indeed, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, and it is the love of money that stops a person from doing what Jesus said.

Have none of you read [Lk 14:33] None of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions? Or [Lk 16:9] Use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends? [Lk 6:35] Love your enemies and do good, len without any hope of return? [Lk 6:30] Give to everybody who asks of you and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you? [Lk 6:32] If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you, for even sinners do as much. How about [Mt 5:19] The man who infrines even the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be considered the least in the kingdom of heaven? [Jn 14:24] Those who do not love me do not keep my words? [Mt 15:4] Why do you break away from the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? [Mt 7:21] It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father. [Lk 12:9] the man who disowns me in the presence of men will be disowned in the presence of God’s angels.

Can’t you see you have disowned him?

Don’t you know that if you were really disciples you would not be arguing against me?

[Lk 6:22] Happy are you when people hate you, drive you out, abuse you, denounce your name as evil on accout of the son of man. Rejoice when that day comes and dance for joy. This was the way their ancestors treated the prophets.

Can’t you see the irony, though you call yourselves followers, this is precisely how you are treating me, even though I am only upholding Jesus’ word.
 
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forgiveness:
I met a homeless man today, …Havn’t they read Jesus’ command to give without expecting anything in return, …HYPOCRITES! … Can’t you see you have disowned him? Don’t you know that if you were really disciples you would not be arguing against me?
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Soooooooo, did you give him the money to get to the funeral?
 
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forgiveness:
Don’t you know that if you were really disciples you would not be arguing against me?

Can’t you see the irony, though you call yourselves followers, this is precisely how you are treating me, even though I am only upholding Jesus’ word.
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Hello forgiveness,

Your quote from Luke (14:33) is telling. In the same sermon, Christ also makes our hatred of our mother and father, brothers and sisters, wife and children, a condition of discipleship. Indeed, we are to hate our “own lives.” Do you think He meant that literally, or was He making a point about what we must be *willing *to do?

I also have to mention that it takes a lot of chutzpah to assert that those who disagree with you *personally *are not disciples of Christ. You might want to give the parts about money a rest and look at the Bible’s rather comprehensive teachings about condemning others. We are not the provocateurs here. And we are not the ones damning others. Can’t you see the irony?
 
Would you give him the money? If not, if you own the computer you are typing on would you could have sold that for the money?

If this happened in England why the need for air fare for Scotland? Coudn’t he find someone to drive him there? And doesn’t he have any family that could help him?

If I knew the person well and if he had jumped off a bridge I think I would driven him to Scotland and then perhaps invested in some kind of counseling services for him.

dream wanderer
 
I do not think that the Holy Spirit would resort to lies or deceit to make a point. A spirit is indeed driving you, I just question which spirit. You obviously did not see my questions so I will ask again.
How did you verify this homeless mans story? You do realize it is a sin to “bear false witness” don’t you? Did you contact these Churches? How did you verify the death in Scotland? How about the jumping story? Somehow I doubt you verified this person’s claim, as I wouldn’t either, nor would I expect the Church to. Ask for food, if they can, they will provide it or let you know where you can get it. Ask for shelter, chances are good they’ll find some for you. Ask for prayers and we will surely accommodate. The Catholic Church provides more money, time and talent for the care of the poor than ANY other organization. Name one who gives more. Yet you can sit there and call them “HYPOCRITES!”? Shame on you.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, what were the names of the Churches, in what town? I’d just like to get their side of the story. Perhaps there are circumstances you aren’t aware of. I’m more than willing to contact them. We can contact these Churches even in England, please let us.
 
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forgiveness:
I live in England and he was not after a trans-atlantic air fare.

‘’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’

Have none of you read [Lk 14:33] None of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions? Or [Lk 16:9] Use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends? [Lk 6:35] Love your enemies and do good, len without any hope of return? [Lk 6:30] Give to everybody who asks of you and do not ask for your property back from the man who robs you? [Lk 6:32] …
Don’t you know that if you were really disciples you would not be arguing against me?

[Lk 6:22] Happy are you when people hate you, drive you out, abuse you, denounce your name as evil on accout of the son of man. Rejoice when that day comes and dance for joy. This was the way their ancestors treated the prophets.

Can’t you see the irony, though you call yourselves followers, this is precisely how you are treating me, even though I am only upholding Jesus’ word.
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  1. AUTHOROTHY: ‘Forgiveness’ If arguing against you is to not be a disciple of Christ, as you tell us, then hou have to document your authorothy.
  2. PICK AND CHOOSE FROM THE BIBLE: We can all do that to try to justify our own wishes. Have you read this one? "Another of his disciples said to him, ‘Lord, first let me go and bury my father.’ 22But Jesus said to him, ‘Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.’ " (Mat 8:21-22)
  3. HAPPY WHEN PEOPLE HATE YOU? Don’t be too happy, yet. You may have misinterpreted what we are trying to tell you. I think you will find no-one here that hate you. But some of us tries to teach you something you might benefit and learn from, if you take the time to listen.
  4. GREAT-BRITAIN: Why did’nt you drive him to the funeral? If you didn’t have time for that ,why didn’t you and your friends give him the money and help him at the right bus or train?
Did you help him to dress up for the funeral? Did you buy the food he would need for his trip and what about the flowers he also would need for the funeral?

If you forgot to do that you may still run after him and help him with the flowers (even if it’s to late for the funeral now).
  1. TRADITION OF MAN: From the Bible you have quoted: "Why do you break away from the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? [Mt 7:21] Does this mean that you don’t believe in catholic tradition, that you are a protestant, a Seven Day Adventist or of some kind of a christian sect?
If so, how can we know that your attac on us are not motivated by a hate of us, deep, deep inside you?

G.G.
 
It may be pointless to discuss anything with “forgiveness.” He/She doesn’t listen very well and almost never (I’m giving the benefit of a doubt) answers our questions. “Forgiveness” has another thread going on attacking Catholics, too. Again, I will ask you, Are you a Christian??? From the beginning of your posts, I have sensed a spirit not of our Lord’s. To be quite blunt, I have sensed something evil. (strong word, true, but accurate). I will pray for you. Unless you answer our questions, though, I don’t see any good responding to you again.

May God bless you. God bless your Guardian Angel. That poor thing has his/her work cut out.
 
I believe in upholding the words of Jesus, to the word, and his words can speak for me. I do not classify myself within a particular denomination of Christianity, because that segregation is in itself wholy un-Christian. All ‘Christians’ should be brothers, but you are clearly content to divide yourselves from one another by calling yourselves different names like ‘Catholic’ or whatever. Have you not read [Mk 3:25] a house divided cannot stand? Why are you are content with that division?

Besides, if you really were Christians, you would actually call yourselves Jews, because Jesus was a Jew. He was not out to start a new religion, only clarify one that existed already, but that is another matter.

With regard to all your disagreements as to what I am saying, I am surprised that you are not surprised at yourselves, because I am only saying what Jesus said, again. You are not disagreeing with me, but with Jesus. However, this does not really surprise me, since many of you have exalted men such as the Pope and the clergy, who themselves have gone against Jesus’ word. Dont you know that for starters, among the clergy themselves [Jn 20:24] the rulers lord it over them and their great men make their authority felt? Can’t you see that this in itself makes them part of a thoroughly un-Holy Order?

You are more concerned with mocking me, than thinking about what I say, which is founded in truth.

You are happy to settle for imperfection, when Jesus said perfection was the only choice. When I make you aware of how imperfect people are, it is of course only natural that you would rebel against me, because you are more concerned with defending yourselves and your ‘Church’ denominations than you are the words of Jesus. As Jesus said:

[Jn 3:20] Anyone who does wrong hates the light and avoids it for fear his actions should be exposed.

Can’t you see that you are exposed? You are disowning Jesus in the presence of men?

You have no desire to remove that plank from your eye, and are more concerned with pointing out the one you think you can see in mine. You should not look to me, but to Jesus.

You are too afraid to become perfect because you are too scared of the hardships that that would entail. And besides, you have the likes of all those people in the clergy to back you up, who themselves are also afraid of perfection. You love your money too much to do what Jesus said you should do with it. Don’t you know that you should have no fear, not worry about what your family and friends think, nor fret about what you will eat or clothe yourselves in? If you really had faith, you would not have that fear.

Don’t you think that your ‘Churches’ would support you? If you did, then what has stopped them from making you feel secure enough to do what Jesus said? I can only deduce that either you have no faith in the first place, you have no faith in your ‘Church’, or that your ‘Church’ has not taught you to be perfect. All of these speak volumes.

[Jn 5:44-47] How can you believe since you look to one another for approval and are not concerned with the approval that comes from God? Do not imagine that I am going to accuse you before the Father: you place your hopes on Jesus, and Jesus shall be your accuser. If you really believed him, you would believe me too, but if you refuse to believe what he said, how can you believe what I say?

Even though what I am only upholding the truth taught by Jesus, I have already read that what I say is evil. But what have I said that goes against the fundamental teachings of Jesus? Nothing, I am only exposing peoples desire to live by their own rules, and not those of God. Like Peter, the founder of the Catholic Church itself [Mt 16:23] You are an obstacle in because the way you think is not God’s but man’s.

[Jn 8:46] why do you not believe me? [Jn:8:43-44] It is because you are unable to understand my language. The devil is your father, and you prefer to do what your father wants.
 
You said “I met a homeless man today…” You just met this guy and you speak as if you have known him all your life and are privy to his personal history and can discern in one meeting that he is an honest man. In your first (and only) meeting you found out he had just the DAY BEFORE attempted suicide. Attempted suicide is ALWAYS an indicator of emotional instability and sometimes mental illness.

Being blessed to be able to minister and witness to homeless people, emotionally unstable people, drug addicts … etc. I have found that just to hand over money could be absolutely detrimental to the individual in question. As well as morally irresponsible. To hand over money without discerning a true intent could be as dangerous as handing someone a loaded gun. Consider a crack addict who would try any sham to get “one more hit”, go ahead give him money. That next hit could be his last.
You will be accountable. Christ warns us to “be as a sheep among wolves.”

On the streets of Baltimore, I have been asked by many homeless for money for food. When I offered to take them into the restaurant on the corner, nine times out of ten they refused and normally would laugh and say “Cmon girl, you know what I want it for.” I did, Sometimes I could convince them to share a meal, but never could I feel justified in giving them a dollar towards their next hit or a bottle of Old English Rose.I personally knew one man who would “borrow” his neighbors baby, to get more money for the drugs he would then share with the parent of the baby.

Since you never respond to questions people ask of you, I am going to hope you DID NOT give this man money. You could have been cooperating evil. Something Our Lord would not be pleased with. My advice to you is to leave these kinds of situations to professionals, or you may do irreperable damage.

Also, if I heard of my pastor being so indiscriminate and irresponsible with funds I would question his ability to be in the position of financial administrator, and would give my money instead to a charity that I knew was truly HELPING people.

By the way I have a cousin who is a heroin addict, she would call every other week with some story or another of how she needed money. Know why I never gave it to her? BECAUSE I LOVE HER!
 
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Ana:
Being blessed to be able to minister and witness to homeless people, emotionally unstable people, drug addicts … etc. I have found that just to hand over money could be absolutely detrimental to the individual in question. As well as morally irresponsible. To hand over money without discerning a true intent could be as dangerous as handing someone a loaded gun. Consider a crack addict who would try any sham to get “one more hit”, go ahead give him money. That next hit could be his last.
You will be accountable. Christ warns us to “be as a sheep among wolves.”

On the streets of Baltimore, I have been asked by many homeless for money for food. When I offered to take them into the restaurant on the corner, nine times out of ten they refused and normally would laugh and say “Cmon girl, you know what I want it for.” I did, Sometimes I could convince them to share a meal, but never could I feel justified in giving them a dollar towards their next hit or a bottle of Old English Rose.I personally knew one man who would “borrow” his neighbors baby, to get more money for the drugs he would then share with the parent of the baby.
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Excellent points, Ana! I am the CEO of a large Catholic institution who lives almost next door to our cathedral, and I face issues in responding to beggars almost every day. God created us in His image and gave us reason–to refuse to use our reason is to defy God. We are to be as “sly as foxes, as simple as doves.”
 
Forgiveness, please do answer the several questions asked thus far:
  1. Do you own the computer you are using to type these messages? If so, how do you justify ownership in such a luxury, according to your own dictates here?
  2. Is that computer sitting inside of your home or apartment, powered by electricity that you pay for? Again, according to your own logic, how do you justify that expenditure when there are people homeless and hungry RIGHT NOW?
  3. And did you in fact assist this allegedly homeless man?
Your belligerent tone and judgemental attitude lead me to believe that you are either very young or very immature. In charity, I will assume the first, and will pray that you grow in grace and wisdom of the Lord.
 
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Fortiterinre:
I am the CEO of a large Catholic institution who lives almost next door to our cathedral, and I face issues in responding to beggars almost every day. "
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Which actually leads me to another thought. The very fact that your institution has the word Catholic in it’s name and is next door to a cathedral, and attracts so many beggers, along with the fact that this homeless man made the effort to try THREE CATHOLIC CHURCH’S seems to suggest that she has a reputation among the less fortunate for her generosity. Otherwise why would they go there?

For a productive dialogue, Forgiveness, the idea is to respond to each point brought up. Christ truly talked with his apostles, taking time to answer what probably what seemed to Him to be redundant questions, but He did respond. Why won’t you? I’ve read all the responses and everyone is using good manners except you. Please be polite, and logical. Your credibility is damaged when you don’t act with common courtesy.

I am inclined to agree with makerteacher, the fact that your rudeness seems unintentional, leads one to believe you must be very young. Ranting and raving illogically is a trait attributed to the very young and immature, or unstable. I pray it is the former, also I shudder to think of the fate of the more impressionable souls you may have come across.
 
The reason that people out on the streets might turn to drugs is because the people around them are so full of greed and hatred. The only way they feel they can get that high is from a drug, because those people are too concerned with themselves to supply it.

Can’t you see that Jesus would be among those people out on the streets? Though foxes have holes and the birds have nests, like them, he would not have a place to rest his head.

Can’t you see that the Pope, and so many other ‘Christians’ alike, are content just to leave him out there, cold and hungry? They say they love him, but why do they leave him out there? Why do they not place themselves below him as they rightly should? Why have they walked away sad on hearing his good news? Why do they not want to place themselves last and thus be first?

They say they love him, but if they loved him they would uphold his word. If they loved him, they would be serving HIM because he is greater than they are. And he is ALREADY out there!

Of course, doing the right thing is hard, putting oneself last as he commanded is not easy. Jesus was crucified for doing so! But we know its a narrow and hard road. If you loved him, you would be going down that same road. Don’t you know you should have no fear?

You are all content to settle with the inequality of the world, just as the clergy are, within their own un-Holy Order. You are content to live under the laws of men such as Bush, and not those of God.

But even Bush calls himself a Christian!

Can’t you see that that it’s the inequality that Bush is a part of, which is the reason why he is fighting the ‘War Against Terror’. It is just as much his fault as it is the ‘terrorist’s’, but of course, that is not something he has acknowledged.

Can’t you not see that money is the source of that inequality? Can’t you see that it represents the opposite to love, that it is the ‘second master’?

Don’t you understand that God and money are opposites to one another. That one is spiritual and the other material? Godliness is giving for the sake of giving, it is selfless and the original source of love. Money on the other hand is given ONLY if something can be TAKEN in return, and that is why it is the source of greed and hatred.

That is why Jesus make it ABUNDANTLY clear that the ONLY way money must be used, if used at all, is in a LOVING way, where it is given for NOTHING in return.

Can’t you see that using money in the way it is normally intended to, only contributes to the hatred in the world? Can’t you see that holding onto it and not giving it to those who need it is in itself a sign of that person’s love for it? If you are to follow God, don’t you know that you should render unto Caesar what is Caesars? That is what Jesus said!

Jesus may have forgiven people’s sins, but he also made people aware of them. He came to make people STOP commiting them, not to carry on regardless. He did not die on the cross so that people could carry on sinning, because their sins are forgiven!

[Jn 15:22] If I had not come, if I had not spoken to them, they would have been blameless; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin.

Clearly people love their mother, father, son, daughter, house and land more than Jesus, and that is why you have not done what he said.

He is still receiving the same treatment today, to that which he did in his day, only this time his blood is on the hands of people who call themselves ‘Christians’! It is them who are hammering in the nails. He is out on the streets right now, still crying out “Eli Eli lama Sabachthani!”

He did not come to bring peace but a sword, and what you cannot see is that the sword is firmly in your hands, held up to his throat!
 
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forgiveness:
… Can’t you see that the Pope, and so many other ‘Christians’ alike, are content just to leave him out there, cold and hungry? They say they love him, but why do they leave him out there? …
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(heavy, heavy sigh)

Yes, yes, forgiveness. We heard you the first time. Apparently, you have chosen to ignore the many here who have shown the accusations you are making are utterly without basis in fact. Yet you cling to your mantra because it is what you wish were true about the Catholic Church (but in fact is not true). You have wilfully chosen to ignore the responses you’ve received or you’d be forced to acknowledge the truth that there is no more charitable institution than the Catholic Church.

Forgiveness, we do not need to hear you say the same thing over and over and over again. What we need to hear now are your answers to the questions put repeatedly to you.

Don’t you realize your silence – not to mention your complete ignoring of these pointed questions – is most telling?
 
For the sake of convenience I am going to refer to forgiveness as a she. I apologize to her (him?) if that is not the case. I am beginning to think, due to forgiveness responses, that there is something very wrong. As I said before, I don’t think she is being unopen to dialogue on purpose, There seems to be a certain helplessness in her illogicy (mental illness, bondage?):confused: . There are many things she has said that just flat out don’t make sense! Someone said before that they sensed something very evil, the more I read her posts the more I think of that being a possibility.

Would anyone care to join me in prayer for this poor child? Some spiritual warfare prayers (www.saint-mike.org)? Perhaps a novena? forgiveness is not on this forum by accident.:love:
 
People who come on a board, say something that they know will provoke controversy and then refuse to dialogue about it are trolls and should be ignored.

But praying for them is a good idea.

dream wanderer
 
dream wanderer:
People who come on a board, say something that they know will provoke controversy and then refuse to dialogue about it are trolls and should be ignored.
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So THATS what a troll is.😃 I’ve always wondered.
 
If we all have to be perfect to get to heaven God is going to be very lonely.
 
Hey ‘Forgiveness’!

I have posted this prayer that perhaps may be of help for you in your daily contact with God and the people he has created on earth. Feel free to use it every day:

Injustice and my own attitude:

Lord, it’s good
to be actively concerned
about the abuses of human rights
in other countries,
but I must not lose sight
of the mis-treatment of others closer to me.
Most particularly, Lord,
point out to me my own failings
in lacking respect
for those who come into my daily life.
I readily condemn slavery,
but help me to liberate those I know
who are overburdened.
I condemn torture,
but lead me to discourage the use
of cruel words and actions.
Remind me
that those who degrade others
are themselves diminished.
Enlighten me
so that I do not
jump to conclusions about people,
or be judgmental.
Lead me always to respect individuals
for who they are,
realising that their experiences
may be different from my own,
as each follows paths in life
that are individual to them.
May I grow in appreciation
that those who think differently from me
can hold equally valid views.
In these and other ways, Lord,
may I grow in respect for all people.
This day, may others respect me
as much as I respect them.
Amen.

May God bless you and help you grow as a human christian being, ‘Forgiveness’!

Peace!!! :blessyou: :gopray: ❤️ :gopray: :amen:

G.G.
 
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